400 H&H

[Pheroze]

Send your component orders here to Vermont and I can put them in Maple Syrup Jugs for you to bring back, no one will be the wiser cause everyone in Ontario knows that Vermont makes better Maple Syrup.

Very funny! Now, Quebec maple syrup is another story altogether!

North Forks are developing a fantastic reputation, hopefully they can get their production costs under control. They are very high. But, when I get to use this in Africa, I will probably be shooting North Forks. Fortunately, the TSX are readily available up here, so no need to get caught with jugs labeled "Made in Vermont" in my pantry just yet.

Pierre an der Walt claims the faster powders showed pressure earlier than the middle speed band powders when shooting 400gr bullets. I was interested that you are using Varget, and Lee data also seems to get good speed from Varget. I would think Varget is a bit on the faster side of that statement. But, maybe a slower powder would help with those North Forks?

He does also state the lighter bullets did not have the same issues. What did you end up with for a max load with the TSX?

 

[zephyr]

I have used both RL15 and H4895 with 300gr Bullets, my notes show MAX 78grs of RL15 and 77grs H4895 with 300TSXs and 79gr of H4895 with a 300gr Hornady.
Have pretty much settled on Varget for the 400gr Bullets and H4895 for the 300gr bullets. Picked the Hodgdon powders as they claim to be more temp in-sensative, without pressure data thought this was a good route since I test loads in 70*f and may shoot them in 100*f.
Looks like 74grs of Varget will work for the 400gr NorthFork, need to get back to the range to confirm and work up loads for their 400gr Solid.

 

[Pheroze]

@zephyr what did you settle on for cleaning the barrel? I am looking around and I am having difficulty identifying appropriate jags and brushes. Thanks!

 

[zephyr]

I have The Tipton Cleaning Jag Set in both Brass and Nickle Plated, the Jag I use is their .40-.416 Jag and use the .416 dia Nylon Brushes

 

[Double BC]

I have The Tipton Cleaning Jag Set in both Brass and Nickle Plated, the Jag I use is their .40-.416 Jag and use the .416 dia Nylon Brushes

What insert do you use for trimming brass

 

[zephyr]

I use Forster Trimmers I think I called and had them make me one, the other option is to buy a .416dia and turn it down .005.

 

[Pheroze]

I use the Wilson trimmer. I am presuming the sleeve will be the same as the 375 so it should be straight forward.

 

[Pheroze]

Wow!!! A HUGE shout out to Cutting Edge Bullets - they have load data for the 400 H&H. This is a very pleasant surprise!

 

[Double BC]

I use Forster Trimmers I think I called and had them make me one, the other option is to buy a .416dia and turn it down .005.

I've tried trimming them down. They are carbide, very hard. I have the Lyman trimmer looks like they make one for the 405 win

 

[Pheroze]

I picked up some of the 370gr cutting edge bullets. Sweet.

Ummm, no I don't have a rifle yet, why do you ask?

 

[zephyr]

Shot my Buf in 2012 with that Bullet out of my 400H&H, one and done....

 

[Pheroze]

Shot my Buf in 2012 with that Bullet out of my 400H&H, one and done....

Do you think the petals added anything to the basic effectiveness of the bullet? I am curious whether you could identify damage done where they separated off

 

[zephyr]

My Buf shot in 2012 was a 40yrd frontal chest shot that center punched the heart, you could see evidence of tissue damage from the petals. The frontal chest shot is tough on any bullet and I think that a traditional broadside shot gives the bullet a better chance to do what it was designed to do.
There is another forum, (B&M Forum) run by the gentleman who worked very closely with CEB testing bullets that has many pics of animal with "shredded" vitals from CEB bullets and their petals.
My only concern with the 370gr Raptor is distance, it has a BC of about 190 and by 150yrd it gets very slow. This is the reason I choose the 400gr NorthForks for my Eland and as back up to my Double Rifle for Buf. You can get from CEB plastic tips that will fit the 370gr bullet and double the BC but they will not fit in the magazine. but you can run one into the chamber. It is fine for the first shot but may not for a second if you have to toss a bullet at an animal far away. All so at 100yrds+ the "Tipped" bullet will have a different POI than a un-tipped bullet. One of the reason CEB is having success with light for caliber bullets that are tipped and will fit in the magazine. They are very accurate and at the terminal end it is devastating. I have shot a pig with my .338 using their 175gr ESP Raptor over 3000fps it just destroyed the off side of the animal.

 

[Pheroze]

I ran some numbers with the BC and it is definitely a 100 yard bullet without the tips in my mind. I can't get those tips here yet but I am chasing them down. I am going to build on a Brno 602 action so maybe the magazine will have a bit more space for it? If you want I will buy the tips off you if you aren't going to use them

 

[PaulT]

All CEB Safari Raptors have a minimum low velocity shear point.

I THINK that is about 1300 - 1500 fps.
That needs to be confirmed.

Even below that velocity point I have found that hitting a buffalo sized animal will have substantial effect, even when the blades don't shear.
You can expect straight line penetration, true tracking by the bullet and a clear open bullet path line.

If you are setting up firearm specifically for the use of Raptors and other "blunt", flat-meplat type projectiles have the breech face coned or tapered as in the Win Mod 70 fashion as opposed to the square, abrupt Mauser Type breech face, where the bullets will catch upon entry to the magazine.

I am off in a few weeks, back in to buffalo country for a month.
With me will be my old faithful .500 MDM (a cartridge designed by one of the designers of the Safari Raptor) and it will be stoked full of 450gn brass Raptors.

 

[hidalgo]

Like some others here I got on the .400 H&H from Duke McCaa at Gulfbreeze. I have a Dakota 76 Safari that I ordered to my specifications and it is great. I've worked up loads with 400 gr TSXs and 400 gr Northfork Solids (.411 diameter) using Varget. I shot a group this morning with 3 of each that was just over an inch for all 6. I getting right at 2375 fps for both. Initially I used some .410 diameter Northforks and they shot fine also. One thing I ran into was with the CH dies I could size down the cases enough for the .410 diameter bullets from Northfork or Hornady, I got a set of Hornady dies they will size the neck down enough to use the .410 bullets. It's a great cartridge that feeds exceptionaly well with a long neck for a good grip. It has the advantage of fitting in the same size action on a Dakota as a .375 and will hold 4 in the magazine. I'll be taking mine to Tanzania next month to hopefully try out on a couple of buffalo.

 

[Pheroze]

If you are setting up firearm specifically for the use of Raptors and other "blunt", flat-meplat type projectiles have the breech face coned or tapered as in the Win Mod 70 fashion as opposed to the square, abrupt Mauser Type breech face, where the bullets will catch upon entry to the magazine.

I am thinking it will be fed the 370gr Raptor and the 300 gr TSX. Sounds like great advice about modifying the breech face. Thanks!

 

[Pheroze]

I did some comparisons. If I assume a tipped 370 gr Raptor has a BC of .36 (just under double the non-tipped) then the trajectory with a MV of 2500 fps is within kissing distance of a 300 gr TSX with a MV of 2700. Although, the TSX trajectory is a little flatter at 100 yards. But, between 200-300 yards the difference is less. But, the Raptor hits harder when it gets there. So, is there any need to use anything else if you can fit a tipped Raptor in the magazine?

Another thought, Barnes rates their 300gr TSX for all big game up to and including cape buffalo when shot out of a 405 Win. So, is there any need to use larger in the 400 H&H?

Hmmmmm......

 

[zephyr]

I guess it is a matter of preference ........
Smaller and faster.......
Bigger and slower.......

 

[Double BC]

I did some comparisons. If I assume a tipped 370 gr Raptor has a BC of .36 (just under double the non-tipped) then the trajectory with a MV of 2500 fps is within kissing distance of a 300 gr TSX with a MV of 2700. Although, the TSX trajectory is a little flatter at 100 yards. But, between 200-300 yards the difference is less. But, the Raptor hits harder when it gets there. So, is there any need to use anything else if you can fit a tipped Raptor in the magazine?

Another thought, Barnes rates their 300gr TSX for all big game up to and including cape buffalo when shot out of a 405 Win. So, is there any need to use larger in the 400 H&H?

Hmmmmm......

Yes, you should use the GS custom 317 grain with a BC of .458 that thing should do about 2800 fps