.375 H&H,.416 RIGBY,.458 Lott,.460 weatherby mag

Dragan miloševič

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hey guys, so I've been doing a little more research on some great calibers for buff. I've heard good things from all, but I've now seen the weatherby mark V in .460 weatherby magnum, Winchester safari express in .416 rem mag, cz550, Anderson wheeler .600 NE, MAUSER 98 .404 Jeffery, river NO.1 in .450 NE. I've seen many, but out of these which would you recommend, money isn't really the issue, it may be with the wheeler, but which would you recommend out of these and what do you use for the BIG 5? Also, I have an a-bolt 30-06 SPRNG, could this take out a buff? And is it legal? Thank you guys!
 
.......... Also, I have an a-bolt 30-06 SPRNG, could this take out a buff? And is it legal? Thank you guys!
You might "take one out with it" but it is illegal. Min .375 in most countries.

The more rare the load the harder than ammunition is to acquire.

From your list I'd buy the 404.
 
Interesting, 404 Jeffrey or 416 Rem......
 
Why not? Classic round does the job if you do yours, Less recoil than a 416, larger frontal bullet surface than the 375 H&H. I have them all. They all shoot MOA at 100yds. I just really like the 404.
I had my 404 built on a Win M70 375 H&H in stainless. Total build cost (including donor rifle) was $2450 CDN. Really wasn't much gunsmithing involved. I guess you could say it's a poor mans 404, but hey it's a 404. A Mauser 98 magnum action would work too, or a 300RUM action as well (Rem Ultra Mag cases are based on the 404 case if I'm not mistaken).
 
Is it a nice rifle? Good stopping power?

My .404 is in this thread, http://www.africahunting.com/threads/3-gun-african-battery.23877/ I have only shot it on the range at the moment, and then only 5 times. I'm waiting for dies to turn up before I give it a good wring out.

A 400gr projectile at 2300 fps will easily kill a buffalo. My rifle weighs 9.5lb as is and the recoil is fine. Going to a 458 or 460 will bring a lot more recoil, and the possibility of being more worried about recoil as opposed to shot placement.
Seeing as you will have a guide backing you up the extra power of the 458 or 460 is not needed.
The .416 Rem mag will be the easiest to get components for, BUT a Mauser 98 in .404 Jeffery just screams Africa.
 
hey guys, so I've been doing a little more research on some great calibers for buff. I've heard good things from all, but I've now seen the weatherby mark V in .460 weatherby magnum, Winchester safari express in .416 rem mag, cz550, Anderson wheeler .600 NE, MAUSER 98 .404 Jeffery, river NO.1 in .450 NE. I've seen many, but out of these which would you recommend, money isn't really the issue, it may be with the wheeler, but which would you recommend out of these and what do you use for the BIG 5? Also, I have an a-bolt 30-06 SPRNG, could this take out a buff? And is it legal? Thank you guys!

1. Unlike what some have said, the 30/06 Springfield might be legal. Some African countries let the PH or game scout decide what you may use.

2. A Mauser 98 would be nice but, especially if you reload, finding components for the 404 Jeffery might cause it to lose its nostalgia attractions.

3. I shot the 416 Remington Magnum in an ultralight rifle once. The recoil was very benign. Not a bad choice and ammunition would be easy to come by.

4. A "river" No. 1 in 450 NE? Maybe a Ruger No. 1? Anyway, I like the .458 diameter bullets as there are a lot of choices. I've never shot one but it's rumored that the No. 1 stock isn't the best for handling recoil. You might want to try before you buy.

5. The 460 Weatherby Magnum; that might be what I'd pick from my stable. Being of .458 caliber, there are many bullet choices. The Weatherby rifles are also very pretty.

http://www.orchardphoto.com/460Weatherby.m4v

6. I like the CZ 550 Safari Magnum but maybe not in 600 NE. Once again, my hesitation would stem from bullet and brass availability but if money is no object... Also, there was a time when U. S. Customs would bust you for exporting a gun of greater than or equal .50 caliber. I think that has changed but it's possible some of officialdom don't know that yet.
 
1. Unlike what some have said, the 30/06 Springfield might be legal. Some African countries let the PH or game scout decide what you may use.

2. A Mauser 98 would be nice but, especially if you reload, finding components for the 404 Jeffery might cause it to lose its nostalgia attractions.

3. I shot the 416 Remington Magnum in an ultralight rifle once. The recoil was very benign. Not a bad choice and ammunition would be easy to come by.

4. A "river" No. 1 in 450 NE? Maybe a Ruger No. 1? Anyway, I like the .458 diameter bullets as there are a lot of choices. I've never shot one but it's rumored that the No. 1 stock isn't the best for handling recoil. You might want to try before you buy.

5. The 460 Weatherby Magnum; that might be what I'd pick from my stable. Being of .458 caliber, there are many bullet choices. The Weatherby rifles are also very pretty.

http://www.orchardphoto.com/460Weatherby.m4v

6. I like the CZ 550 Safari Magnum but maybe not in 600 NE. Once again, my hesitation would stem from bullet and brass availability but if money is no object... Also, there was a time when U. S. Customs would bust you for exporting a gun of greater than or equal .50 caliber. I think that has changed but it's possible some of officialdom don't know that yet.
So what in your opinion would be the best rifle and cartridge for buff hunting
 
The best rifle and cartridge for buff hunting. That's a hard one.

If money were no object, I'd probably go for a double rifle in 470 NE with ejectors.

If I were going with a bolt action rifle my number one cartridge choice would be the 458 Lott or the 460 Weatherby Magnum. I would be hard put to decide between them. As for rifle brand, I'd go with a CZ 550, a Blaser R 8 or a Weatherby though there are quite a few other brands that are just as good and maybe better. For a very slick action, excellent accuracy, excellent trigger and smooth feeding go with the Blaser; it will have all of those right out of the box. Blaser metal is very good and you can get a composite stock or very nice wood depending on what your preferences are.

Another advantage to the Blaser is the ability to switch barrels and the rifle can be packed in a gun case that will incure no extra charges for size when you fly. You can get the Blaser in 458 Lott but not 460 Weatherby. You can, of course, buy other barrels to switch to a different cartridge if you like. I guess you can tell I really like Blasers.
 
Interesting. The video of the 460 WBY being shot doesn't show as much apparent recoil (muzzle jump and movement of the shooter) as I gues I would have expected. Especially shooting off of a bench. I wonder if he was shooting lighter loads or if he just really handles recoil well?
 
I never download anything unless it's to make something subsonic to use with a suppressor. Downloading is like castrating your prized breeding bull. The load was with 118.0 grains of H4831SC and 500 grain Hornady Interbonds. The Norma cases I was using can hold a maximum of about 120 grains of powder before the powder becomes too compressed for one to seat the bullet to the cannelure. I also load for accuracy and not so much for velocity; 118.0 grains seems optimal for that powder. Accuracy is about 2 inches at 100 yards for 3 shot groups. I'm hopeing for something a little better and am going to try VV N160. An inch at 100 yards would be satisfactory.

Unlike some brakes that have circumferential holes, the Pendelton brake has holes directed to the side and upwards which limits muzzle rise. The rise of the stock also determines how much the muzzle will rise under recoil. I also shoot a 378 Weatherby Magnum and a 458 Lott; both without brakes. The 460 Weatherby is a bit worse than either of those.
 
1. Unlike what some have said, the 30/06 Springfield might be legal. Some African countries let the PH or game scout decide what you may use.

2. A Mauser 98 would be nice but, especially if you reload, finding components for the 404 Jeffery might cause it to lose its nostalgia attractions.

3. I shot the 416 Remington Magnum in an ultralight rifle once. The recoil was very benign. Not a bad choice and ammunition would be easy to come by.

4. A "river" No. 1 in 450 NE? Maybe a Ruger No. 1? Anyway, I like the .458 diameter bullets as there are a lot of choices. I've never shot one but it's rumored that the No. 1 stock isn't the best for handling recoil. You might want to try before you buy.

5. The 460 Weatherby Magnum; that might be what I'd pick from my stable. Being of .458 caliber, there are many bullet choices. The Weatherby rifles are also very pretty.

http://www.orchardphoto.com/460Weatherby.m4v

6. I like the CZ 550 Safari Magnum but maybe not in 600 NE. Once again, my hesitation would stem from bullet and brass availability but if money is no object... Also, there was a time when U. S. Customs would bust you for exporting a gun of greater than or equal .50 caliber. I think that has changed but it's possible some of officialdom don't know that yet.


I just now watched your video.
Your .460 Wby hand loads appeared to produce about the same amount of recoil as the various .30-06 caliber rifles I have owned over my lifetime.
You must've loaded them down or you should consider entering some of these professional cage fighting contests because otherwise clearly you can take a punch like Superman.
 
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Understood. Well, the recoil didn't look too bad in your video so you must have a pretty good setup and absorb the recoil well (especially shooting off of a bench). Thanks for the video.

I picked up a Mk V Safari model 460 WBY a little while back just because I have always wanted one but have not have a chance to get out and shoot it yet. I guess I better get some ammo ordered and go give it a whirl.
 
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I never download anything unless it's to make something subsonic to use with a suppressor. Downloading is like castrating your prized breeding bull. The load was with 118.0 grains of H4831SC and 500 grain Hornady Interbonds. The Norma cases I was using can hold a maximum of about 120 grains of powder before the powder becomes too compressed for one to seat the bullet to the cannelure. I also load for accuracy and not so much for velocity; 118.0 grains seems optimal for that powder. Accuracy is about 2 inches at 100 yards for 3 shot groups. I'm hopeing for something a little better and am going to try VV N160. An inch at 100 yards would be satisfactory.

Unlike some brakes that have circumferential holes, the Pendelton brake has holes directed to the side and upwards which limits muzzle rise. The rise of the stock also determines how much the muzzle will rise under recoil. I also shoot a 378 Weatherby Magnum and a 458 Lott; both without brakes. The 460 Weatherby is a bit worse than either of those.


Hi Grumulkin,

I posted my original reply regarding my amazement at the apparent lack of recoil from your .460 Weatherby, as depicted in your video.
But that was before I read your subsequent post indicating the reason for same is your Pendelton Brake on this rifle (that, as vette447 points out - is so good it is not even visible).
I wonder if both Pendelton and Weatherby both, might not want to use your video as advertisement for their respective products.

Prior to just now, my only observation of the .460 Wby cartridge in action was back in the late 70's or early 80's, when I watched a man fire his first ever shot from a brand new MK V rifle, while seated at a bench, same as shown in your video.
It had the old 1970's style Weatherby multiple holes drilled through top, sides (and perhaps bottom?) of the barrel near the muzzle.
And, also I watched more recently, here in Anchorage, while Zimbabwe / Tanzania PH Gary Hopkins, fired several shots from a Brno 602 which, had been gouged out by a Gunsmith, from .458 Winchester to .460 Wby but, no brake or venting of any sort had been done to it.
Both events were definitely with Weatherby factory loaded 500 grain softs.

The first guy fired but one shot and bashed his elbow so hard on the bench that he decided to quit there and go see his Doctor for an x-ray, fearing it might be broken.

Mr. Hopkins is a huge and physically powerful man, well over 6 feet tall and no sissy.
He fired several rounds from the Brno from off-hand and made no complaint of discomfort.
However, I did see that the rifle was kicking him properly, nothing like the one in your video, not even close.

It is therefore that I must admit ... the Pendelton Brake is evidently an amazing product.
If I ever caved in to the latest trend in putting brakes on rifles, I would want only that brand.
Those who know me well, would tell you that I cannot abide muzzle brakes so, my above statement is high praise (but don't hold your breath until I cave-in LOL).

Cheers,
Velo Dog.
 
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Is the Pendleton brake on the rifle in the video? I have a hard time seeing a brake on it in the vid, it just looks like a regular barrel with sights on it so I was just curious to confirm. As Velo mentioned, that brake must be excellent at arresting the recoil.
 
Finally found some pics of the Pendleton online. Very cool that it preserves the look of the rifle. Makes me kinda wish mine had the Pendleton instead of the Accubrake, which I think ruins the classic "Safari rifle" lines that banded/hooded front sight on mine exhibits.
 
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I also dislike the looks of the Accubrake which, in my opinion, is just another example of a manufacturer doing something not because it's better but because it's easier. I would not have bought one with the Accubrake. Weatherby ought to ditch the Accubrake and go back to the Pendleton brake.
 

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