.375 H&H, .416 Rem Mag, .458 Lott or .470 NE?

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by Ed Lally, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. Ed Lally

    Ed Lally AH Member

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    Hi. I'm new to this forum and have only been to Africa twice, but, being a mathematician and engineer, I tend to study and accumulate as much data as possible. The information on the threads here and on other sites has been extremely helpful. This information, coupled with almost 60 years of hunting elk, moose, deer and caribou throughout the US and Canada has led me to make two important decisions which will come to fruition next year. I have been blessed to have a great friend in Newfoundland who owns/operates the 4+ Star rated Tuckamore Lodge in Main Brook, Newfoundland, Canada. I have hunted there almost annually since 1986 with friends, my children and most recently my grandson, for moose, woodland Caribou and bear. I have taken over 20 moose, several really nice caribou and a few bears. 46 years ago, I purchased a .300 Weatherby Mag for an elk hunt in Wyoming While that firearm was an excellent rifle for that and subsequent elk and moose hunts, I became intrigued with Blaser Rifles. Since I had untold .300 WBY ammo laying around, I purchased a Professional R8 with a synthetic stock in ,300Wby topped with a Zeiss IC scope and a second barrel in .22-250 topped with the Zeiss scope that came with the Professional Package. The first trip to SA saw a nice Kudu and a Gemsbuck fall to the .300 and a Springbuck, Blesbuck and Impala fall to the .22-250. Last year I shot a Springbuck Grand Slam which in the East Cape is a regular, Kalahari, Black, White and Copper Springbuck. I used a Browning Model 78 with an octagonal barrel in 25.06 since I love that rifle buy had not used it much in the last 30+- years. I put a new Leupold VX5HD scope on the rifle with a CDS dial and obtained wonderful results. This year I will take a Waterbuck, a Blue Wildebeest and a Nyaka, once again using my Blaser in .300 Wby. 2020 will be the year of my Cape Buffalo and I am have purchased a Blaser Big Bore stock with a Safari barrel channel, a steel receiver (adds 1.25#) and a 1 lb. Kickstop recoil reducer in the butt stock. The Kickstop not only reduces recoil but adds weight to balance the safari barrel. It will be topped with a Leupold VX5HD 1-4 x 24 firedot scope with a CDS dial for longer shots. I can actually purchase the parts on line cheaper than the whole rifle and can use the bolt housing and magazine insert from my .300 Wby and possibly the bold head as well, saving money. NOW, THE $64,000 QUESTION!!! What caliber barrel?????
     
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  2. Jfet

    Jfet AH Elite

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    You will gather valuable information from this forum on your research for forming your hypothesis on which caliber barrel. I look forward to reviewing your testing procedures, data, and conclusion as you thoroughly test each caliber barrel you have listed in the title of your original post. This is significant research because your grandson will be able to use this date as he expands your research and delves into double rifles.
     
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  3. Ed Lally

    Ed Lally AH Member

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    I know that the .470 NE is a double rifle cartridge, but a nice Krieghoff Big 5 in the appropriate caliber would not be OK as well. I will finish the Blaser build first.
     
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  4. Ed Lally

    Ed Lally AH Member

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    I am relative new to PG hunting in Africa and soon hope to include DG. The Africa Hunting Virus is more potent than malaria. Once one is infected they are infected for life. The only known cure appears to be one more rifle and one more Safari!! I am blessed to have a number of active hunters in my family. My son, son-in-law, daughter and three grandsons are all avid shooters and hunters. The many special rifles, shotguns, pistols and revolvers I have accumulated and filtered into my current collection have been allocated to each and will see a lot of use after my passing, however, in the short, and hopefully long term, I will keep on collecting, shooting and hunting. This forum has been a source if great information before I joined and I believe it will continue to be so. I am sure that the accumulation of data here, with a significant sprinkling of opinion, will be of great help in my decision making. Thanks in advance to all.
     
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  5. meigsbucks

    meigsbucks AH Enthusiast

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    Welcome Ed. As you have seen, this site is loaded with great info. You are so right, hunting Africa is more potent than malaria. You are addicted.
    Love to see pictures of your African trophies.
    I see .375 H&H and .416 barrels in your future. What the heck, add a .458 Lott as well. More is better! Right?
    I’ll have to check out Tuckamore. A Newfoundland moose hunt is on my bucket list.
     
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  6. Witold Krzyżanowski

    Witold Krzyżanowski AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I agree with Jfet.
     

  7. Longwalker

    Longwalker AH Enthusiast

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    I’d suggest a .416 Rem Mag barrel on your R8 safari rifle. Fully adequate for the really big stuff and more versatile than the bigger bores.
     
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  8. AZDAVE

    AZDAVE AH Elite

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    Would suggest a 375 H&H barrel for your R8, it can be used very effectively in Africa and is a great moose and bear round on this side of the world. Then get a 470 double and go hunt buff.
     

  9. Jfet

    Jfet AH Elite

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    I was in serious little brother mode with my first response.:)

    My daughter-in-law has just purchased a R8. She has a .308 barrel on it now. I was able to shoot it last week. In short, I like that gun! The ability to switch out barrels appeals to the gadget guy in me in every way. When I handed her the rifle back I remarked that she should get a barrel for each caliber. She told me to quite talking to her husband. She did tell me that with a smile, though.

    In my first trip to Africa, I bought a Winchester Model 70 .375 H&H. It was the gun that could do it all. Then last June I was in SA and saw Cape Buffalo up close for the first time. That .375 seemed like a very small bullet for that big of an animal. I came home and bought a .416 Rem Mag for my buffalo hunt this July. It should be big enough. Then I picked up the .470NE at the Dallas Safari Club Convention. I am hoping that one will be able to do the job. I am just not sure though.

    Your quest to answer your question will be a fun adventure!!!(y)(y)(y)
     
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  10. Bullthrower338

    Bullthrower338 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I’m voting one of each, well at least one of each.
     
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  11. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Fanatic

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    Welcome to AH Ed.
    As you can see you are not likely to find anyone here saying you should get rid of any firearms...unless you are selling it to them.

    The R8 with a 416RM barrel will do the trick, but the problem is, it's still only one firearm.
    My issue would be that if you chose to take the 300WBY with you on a particular day and a monster Buff showed up...CRAP!!!

    You...my friend...need another R8 rifle.
    One dedicated to Africa with beautiful wood and at least a 375H&H or even a 416RM barrel.
    Two rifles in the bakkie and you are set.
    You can always pick up a 458WM/LOTT at a later time.
     
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  12. Ed Lally

    Ed Lally AH Member

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    There is only one flaw in the R8 system. Each normal profile barrel costs $1000 to 1200 and the Selous Safari barrels are $2500 to $3000 in the DG calibers. I have a standard R8 Professional in .300 Wby and an R8 Big Bore stock awaiting my decision on what barrel. While pondering this question, i just found a wonderfully stocked and tastefully engraved Krieghoff Big 5 in .470 NE on Gunsinternational.com. My wife thought it so beautiful, she told me that I should buy it. I always do what she says (not) but this time I listened and did as told. The firearm is in the UK and will take 5-6 weeks to clear all the paperwork through the Brits and the US. I think the Krieghoff is still on the website. It is priced at $8500 plus $750 import plus 3.1% duty. Your impression on value would be if interest. So now I have the .300 Why on the bottom of the scale and the .470 NE at the top. What, in your opinion, would best fill the center of the gap. I feel that the
    .458 Lott is too close to the .470 NE.
     
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  13. Ed Lally

    Ed Lally AH Member

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    Did I say "is priced at $8500 plus $750 import plus 3.1% duty." .Should gave said"was priced".
     

  14. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    I can't help you with all your mathematical analysis, but I can speak to considerable experience with a R8. Currently I have one with .375, .300 Win Mag, and 6.5x55 barrels. I have taken it to Mozambique and the Limpopo where it has taken two Buffalo and a bunch of plains game from Suni to Livingstone Eland. To date, all of that has been done with either 300 gr Swift A-Frames or the Woodleigh Hydro. It is my current favorite rifle. I have yet to use the other two calibers on game (no need in Africa at least when a .375 does everything so well). I configured mine somewhat differently. I hate lugging around a heavy rifle in the heat - particularly the Zambezi Delta where it can be an all day exercise. Mine is very light with sporter weight barrels and the classic sporter stock. because of the rifle's ergonomics, I find the recoil of the .375 a non issue. Without scope or ammunition, the rifle weighs under 8 lbs. All dolled up, just under 9. It is like going buffalo hunting carrying an '06.

    For your first DG hunt forget the 40's. You are sure to have the .416 barrel on when a kudu stares at you from the next ridge (an even more ridiculous situation if it's a double in your hands). I would get the .375 tube, a good bullet that it loves, and shoot anything that presents itself from spitting distance to way out there. I should add, my other two buffalo and another bunch of PG were taken with my other two .375's - and yes, I own a .404 and a 500-416.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019

  15. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Fanatic

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    Congratulations on the newest addition to your battery.

    Thinking maybe 416 would be good middle ground between 300WBY and 470NE.
    But with the big boys covered with the 470NE, you may want to stay versatile and go with the 375H&H.
    Plus it gives your shoulder a break and ammo is a bit more affordable.
    At the same time...bigger is always better.

    I know I didn't help.
    You simply need a 375H&H AND a 416RM.
    Throw in a 404Jeffery for nostalgia and good measure.
    You have family who hunts, bring them along, give them each a gun and make it an "African Vacation".
     
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  16. Ed Lally

    Ed Lally AH Member

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    Decisions, Decisions. The comments on a .375 are pushing me that way, Then I think about what some have said about the .416. I'll need to sleep on it. Here are a few photos of my .470NE: Hope they post well.
    upload_2019-3-21_19-16-13.png
    upload_2019-3-21_19-17-22.png
    upload_2019-3-21_19-18-3.png
     
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  17. Opposite Pole

    Opposite Pole AH Enthusiast

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    You can get standard profile 375 barrel for your regular R8 and 416 for the big bore stock. 375 works well on standard stock (I have the pro success model) and the weight is perfectly sufficient to balance the recoil. You can also use that barrel on the safari model there’ll just be a bigger gap between the stock and the barrel. If I had to keep just one gun it’d be my R8 with 375H&H barrel on it. But I would miss my Krieghoff 470 terribly. Have you considered another set of barrels for your double? You could get 9.3x74 or a rimmed 375 and could even put a scope on it. My name is Jakub, and I’m a rifleholic...

    Congratulations on your new double!
     
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  18. Mike Van Horn

    Mike Van Horn AH Member

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    I don't know much about the Blazer rifle but the .378 wby is a good round.
     
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  19. Von S.

    Von S. AH Fanatic

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    Hello Ed,

    After "almost 60 years" of knocking down some of the largest animals in North america you probably know what you can take in the way of recoil and still be able to make a second and third shot with accuracy.

    You probably also know just how important your life is to you and don't surrender your safety to the hands of people you don't know or weapons that are at best marginally sufficient to get the job of slaughter of animals who might just want to slaughter you and prove that it is they, not you, who is the real harbinger of death in Africa.

    ....we''ll talk again....
     

  20. Ed Lally

    Ed Lally AH Member

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    I thank all of you for your opinions, especially Jakub. I think that I may, for now, get a standard profile .375 H&H barrel for my Blaser Professional and a Selous Safari weight .416 Remington barrel for my Blaser Big Bore stock. Stick a just purchased Leupold VX5HD 1-5x24 on the .416 and a larger Leupold on the .375. That would give me a choice of .22, .22 mag, .223, .556, .22-250, .25-06, 7x64, .308, .300 Why, .375 H&H, .416. Rem Mag. and .470 NE, in many cases more than one choice per caliber. On closer examination, I can see that I am missing a .243 or 6mm and I always liked the sound of a .458 Lott, lots of history and romance there! My name is Ed and I am also a riflehokic----shotgun and pistol/revolver too. Best mental defect I ever had!!!!
     
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