.375 21" barrel?

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by Rick Cox, Nov 24, 2017.

Tags:
  1. Rick Cox

    Rick Cox AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    496
    Video/Photo:
    18
    Likes Received:
    404
    Location:
    Armstrong British Colombia
    Hunted:
    Namibia
    I'm thinking of shortening the barrel on my CZ550 Safari from 24" to 21", as suggested by someone on this site. Does anyone know how much this will affect velocity? I'm thinking around a 90' per second loss overall....
     

  2. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,824
    Video/Photo:
    196
    Likes Received:
    5,010
    Location:
    Texas Hill Country
    Member of:
    SCI DSC life memberships / NRA Patron Life
    Hunted:
    Mexico, Namibia, RSA, Germany, Austria, Argentina, Canada, Mozambique, Spain, US (15 states)
    Just genuinely curious why. I have never felt hampered by a 24 or even 26-inch barrel rifle, and have hunted some pretty thick country over the years. Between the wars, the finest British DG bolt rifles had longish barrels and they were built to order for Africa and India.
     

  3. 375 Ruger Fan

    375 Ruger Fan GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2015
    Messages:
    2,162
    Video/Photo:
    132
    Likes Received:
    2,436
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    Namibia, Zimbabwe, South Africa (Eastern Cape & NW), Alaska, TX, LA, MO, OH, MT, ID, WA, Canada (Yukon)
    Quinton likes this.

  4. Odinsraven

    Odinsraven AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    541
    Video/Photo:
    6
    Likes Received:
    420
    Location:
    Iceland
    Member of:
    NRA Life Membe,Icelandic Hunting Club SKOTVIS , BASC (UK) Countryside Alliance (UK)r
    Hunted:
    UK ,Ireland, Bulgaria,Iceland,Czech Republic
    The main problem maybe balance as 1st thing with a DG rifle is pointability and stock fit ....

    Your PH will hate you as he will get the muzzle blast ...

    if you decide to fit a muzzle brake to stop the muzzle flip and restore balance everyone will hate you ....

    The question is does the rifle fit you perhaps some attention to the stock first would be an option ?
     
    Mark19707, Velo Dog, matt85 and 3 others like this.

  5. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,019
    Video/Photo:
    36
    Likes Received:
    1,262
    Location:
    South Africa
    Member of:
    BASA, CHASA
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Botswana, Namibia
    The Safari Magnum in 375 H&H should have a standard barrel length of 23.62 inches, which is just about perfect.

    My 3 ZKK 602 rifles have 1 x standard 375 H&H 25.5 inch barrel, 1 x 375 H&H custom 24 inch barrel and 1 x 500 Jeff 24 inch barrel, never had any issues with them over many years of hunting DG.

    Not sure why you want to shorten the barrel by so much. Most people will say better handling but that in practical terms is hogwash. You may in fact put the rifle out of balance which in turn will affect your shooting especially when you need to shoot quickly or under a pressure situation.

    Shortening the barrel by so much will increase muzzle blast as well as in most cases muzzle flip. This in turn will increase reloading and recovery time for the next shot. Recoil and perceived recoil will also increase which again could lead to flinching and bad shooting.

    As mentioned proper rifle and stock fit are most important and velocity loss is not the main issue.

    Bear in mind that once you have chopped the barrel off you cannot put it back.

    I would not shorten the barrel.
     
    buckcurtin, ve7poi, TOBY458 and 4 others like this.

  6. bassasdaindia

    bassasdaindia AH Elite

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Messages:
    1,228
    Video/Photo:
    10
    Likes Received:
    666
    I am a huge fan of shortening Cz550 barrels and wouldn't hesitate on having it done , my 375 CZ is 23" .
     

  7. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Messages:
    1,019
    Video/Photo:
    36
    Likes Received:
    1,262
    Location:
    South Africa
    Member of:
    BASA, CHASA
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Botswana, Namibia
    The one he has is already 23.6 inches on the barrel or should be anyway.
     

  8. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Messages:
    2,481
    Video/Photo:
    9
    Likes Received:
    1,540
    Location:
    WA, USA
    Hunted:
    USA, South Africa, and Namibia
    ive seen between 20 fps and 100+ fps per inch with more drastic losses the shorter it gets. this of course will depend on the cartridge, bullet weight, and powder used. there are many variables that will effect how bad the loss in velocity is. low pressure cartridges with slow powder will take the biggest hit per inch where high pressure cartridges with faster burning powder will take less of a hit.

    i havent played much with the 375 H&H but my advice is this: do your research and know what your doing before you do anything permanent.

    -matt
     
    Velo Dog and Quinton like this.

  9. greyfox

    greyfox AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    258
    I've got a 21" tube on my 375, mainly because of ease of handling and slightly lighter weight. I have a brake on mine because it allows for MUCH quicker getting back on target.
    This is not a gun for repeated long range precision shooting.

    As for velocity, IN MY EXPERIENCE, shortening the barrel will cut velocity about 50 fps (from 24 to 21). Taking my loads, over a chronograph, and with another rifle right beside me, doing the absolute best side by side comparison I can, the loss isn't as great as some people tell us. Also, in a 243 comparing a 22, 20 and 18.5 the shorter barrel was actually faster!! Shooting a 308, there was a SLIGHT difference between a 22 and a 20 (within the norms of load variation), in the 375 H&H, as stated it was about 50 fps. I'd have to dig out the notes but IIRC the actual velocity difference average was 63 fps?

    Personally, I've not been able to achieve the velocities of the manuals, which is what lead to the whole side by side comparison in the first place.

    I'm willing to sacrifice some velocity for the weight and handiness. It's an individual choice.

    REGARDLESS of length or brake or not, ALWAYS wear hearing protection - or you'll end up like me - hearing loss and constant ringing in the ears. Hearing aids help now, but not a lot and the damage is irreparable.
     
    Whiskey1 likes this.

  10. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    2,685
    Video/Photo:
    40
    Likes Received:
    3,538
    Location:
    Anchorage
    Member of:
    NRA Life Member.
    Hunted:
    South Africa 3 times, Namibia 2 times, USA - most western states including Alaska and Hawaii.
    Hello Rick Cox,

    1.
    I'm one more grumpy old man who generally does not care for a super short barrel on most if not all my hunting rifles, for the reasons Red Leg and others have described plus, I thing they "look funny" as well.
    2.
    Definitely have no time for muzzle brakes either (hurt my ears right through the head phones) plus, they look "very extra super funny" on anything except today's military weapons -IMO.
    3.
    Unless it's from CZ's so called "Custom Shop" (or it's been cut off once already,) your rifle most likely has a 25" barrel, as that is their standard length in .375 caliber.
    (Off topic but, I have a rifle from the CZ so called "Custom Shop" that I ordered brand new from them.
    It would neither feed from the magazine whatsoever, nor even chamber a live factory round).
    4.
    Others have said barrel length is a personal matter and I agree.
    That being said, if for some reason you simply must have a "carbine length" .375, I'd suggest that, if you can get the chance, you should try firing a powerful caliber rifle with a short barrel, before you have yours sawed off.
    The muzzle blast (and sometimes resulting dust cloud) can be impressive.
    5.
    Seems like I read somewhere that the more intense the cartridge (.264 Magnum for instance) the more velocity you will loose per inch sawed off.
    And as I recall, the .375 H&H looses only about 35 fps per inch.
    Velocity loss is however, nothing I would fret over at all.
    If anything, the factory spec 300 grain load in that caliber goes a bit faster than necessary to begin with, again just my grumpy old man opinion.

    Cheers,
    Velo Dog.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017

  11. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    7,536
    Video/Photo:
    309
    Likes Received:
    4,306
    Member of:
    sci int, basc,wpaz
    Hunted:
    zambia, tanzania, zimbabwe, hungary, france, england
    well Mr VD @Velo Dog you must have known i wouldnt be able to resist......;).......21 inch isnt super short...when i was giving the cz people some stick at sci about why their rifles had such ridiculous long barrels they dragged me over to the display and shoved in my hands (after taking my bloody mary medicine from me!!!) a .458 lott from the custom shop with a 16 inch barrel !! o_O...bit short for even me :D....thats when i somehow ended up with my 20 inch barreled .500 jeffery.......well the deal was too good to pass on :E Doh:.........but have 21 inch barrel .458 lott which is great and my others are 22 inch max....apart from the AHR .404 which has a 23 inch one .....but couldnt do much about it as thats how it was .so yet again we get to agree to disagree on this subject!! :A Thumbs Up::D Beers:

    oh and by myself here so as there is no vodka of any sort left and it sat night....having some of patsys gin and tonic.......:whistle:
     
    Velo Dog and IvW like this.

  12. Ray B

    Ray B AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2016
    Messages:
    816
    Video/Photo:
    1
    Likes Received:
    601
    Location:
    WA St, USA
    Several years ago PO Ackley conducted a test where he took a long barrel and fired a series of bullets over a chronograph and recorded the velocities. Then removed an inch of barrel and repeated the process. He did this several times, starting with about a 26" barrel and ending up with an 18" barrel. He then tabulated the numbers and came up with two conclusions: 1. the reduction per reduced inch of barrel averaged 25 fps and 2: the reduction was nearly linear, with only slightly more loss at the short end per inch. As I recall the test was done with a 30-06.
    Compared to your situation with a 375 the similarity would be that a reduction in barrel length would result in a linear reduction in velocity, but there are several dissimilar results. The expansion ratio and volume per additional inch of bore of the 375 is considerably more than the 30-06 and the propellant technology has advanced well beyond what was available in PO's time.
    So my guess is that by selecting a powder that provided optimum performance in the shorter barrel you could have the shorter barrel and give up little in the way of velocity. However as has been noted by several, there are things much more important in hunting and shooting than a hundred or so feet per second such as the balance and pointability of the rifle, not to mention the effect of the increased muzzleblast on you and those near you. But it's your gun, so you can have it the way you want it.
     

  13. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    7,536
    Video/Photo:
    309
    Likes Received:
    4,306
    Member of:
    sci int, basc,wpaz
    Hunted:
    zambia, tanzania, zimbabwe, hungary, france, england
    not sure what everyone is on about with the muzzle blast......:E Hmmm:...never noticed when i am shooting my 500 jeffery or 458 lott or other shortish barrels.......oh yeah i am behind them...:E Rofl::D Cheers:
     
    Milehighshooter and Dr Ray like this.

  14. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    2,685
    Video/Photo:
    40
    Likes Received:
    3,538
    Location:
    Anchorage
    Member of:
    NRA Life Member.
    Hunted:
    South Africa 3 times, Namibia 2 times, USA - most western states including Alaska and Hawaii.
    Hiho Spiko,

    You are as easy to get on bait as I am.
    Even though we generally have somewhat opposing taste in hunting rifle barrel lengths nonetheless, it is not polar opposite.
    I once owned a .375 H&H (Remington 700) that I had bobbed at 22" and fit with a stout welded on blade front sight olus vintage Redfield peep sight (large "ghost ring" aperture).

    And I had the length of pull shortened by 1" less than Remington factory standard for proper fit, while wearing my thick parka.
    This rifle was my cloak and companion for quite a few hunts in Alaska, also during my countless fly fishing trips on salmon streams here ("bear highways").
    Today, I own a 9.3x62, FN 98 Mauser, I had built for me with 23" barrel and it's handy as you know what.
    Although my two present day .375's have 24" (Whitworth Mauser) and 25" (Brno 602) barrels respectfully.

    I definitely do agree with you that 25" is getting a bit longer than needed in a repeater, for any purpose that I can think of.
    For me, somewhere around 23 to 24" is about right on bolt guns.
    Not a bad length on pump or semi-auto shotguns meant for grouse shooting (or street fighting) either IMO.

    Vodka?
    Yes, I keep a bottle of it in my bar for cleaning the beer tap.
    So you see, we're not totally opposed on the most important things in life.

    Cheers,
    Velo Dog.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
    sgt_zim and spike.t like this.

  15. Rick Cox

    Rick Cox AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    496
    Video/Photo:
    18
    Likes Received:
    404
    Location:
    Armstrong British Colombia
    Hunted:
    Namibia
    Thanks for all the input on this topic. Lots of good advice here.... The reason I was considering shortening the barrel is simply to make it more handy in the bush. I notice the difference between my '06 with a 22" barrel and other rifles I own with a 24" barrels, in terms of how much I have to pay attention when handling in the bush. There must be a reason that Ruger's Guide gun has a 20" barrel, and folks seem to like that rifle.
    The CZ is well balanced though, so I think after considering the various opinions I will forget the idea.
     

  16. mikee

    mikee AH Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2016
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    Nelson, New Zealand
    I have a 16inch barrel on my 375wsm, Is very loud, plug required at all times, but I still have good speed, deer cant seem to tell the difference but it sure makes a difference in the thick bush here in NZ....... overkill all the same
     

  17. ldmay375

    ldmay375 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2011
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    4
    I have a 375 Ruger & 416 Ruger with 20" barrels. They are definite nice handling in confined spaces. I used a 375 Ruger with a 23.5" barrel this year, and it did take a couple of days to become adjusted to the longer barrel. But, after the adjustment period, no issues.

    I also use a 24" 338 Win without complaint. I had a 375 H&H with 21" and presently have a 20" barreled one. I am currently having a M70 stainless 375 H&H cut to 22". I also have a 458 Lott with a 22" barrel. The 22" length seems to be my default all-around length in 375 and above.

    Though for navigating through thick and tall brush, the 20" barrels are very handy to me and I use them the most. I have no issues with the velocity loss for 200 meters and under.

     
    1dirthawker likes this.

  18. Dr Ray

    Dr Ray AH Elite

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,316
    Video/Photo:
    3
    Likes Received:
    844
    Location:
    Cairns, Australia
    I would suggest 25-35 FPS per inch.
    I truly believe you won’t see any real difference when shooting at the normal ranges.
    The big difference will be in the muzzle blast though.
     

  19. John J

    John J AH Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2017
    Messages:
    75
    Video/Photo:
    7
    Likes Received:
    108
    For me it would be balance. The 25" barrel on my CZ with a comfortable grip. I go over the front of the ejection port down, around the front of the floor plate hinge with one hand. The sling resides in my pack till I'm packing meat. A casual walk about method the rifle is barrel heavy tipping about 45 degrees hand relaxed. It feels fine while holding the rifle in a firing position. My thoughts are how much barrel will I have to trim to make it balance or would a few cartridges hanging off the butt stock help. I will try later but I think my rifle will one day make it to AHR regardless.
     

  20. Cousin Bongo

    Cousin Bongo AH Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2017
    Messages:
    31
    Video/Photo:
    1
    Likes Received:
    35
    I say: go for it! Don't let the naysayers discourage you. My 375 H&H - custom built on a VZ.24 action (pictured below) - has a 20" barrel, is well balance and very handy in the bush, isn't any louder than the 375s with longer barrels I've been around, still gets right at 2500 fps with 300 grain bullets with factory loads (a bit more with handloads tailored to the rifle; velocity loss, if any, with shorter barrel is inconsequential for all practical purposes), has 5+1 capacity, a MPI Kevlar stock, ghost ring & post (with flip up white night bead) iron sights, flush QD sling sockets, weighs in at 8.5 lbs all-up (i.e. as pictured with scope and sling, but unloaded - 8.52 lbs on a calibrated scale), and is my "go to" rifle for general walkabout in Alaska and Africa.

    [​IMG]

    CB
     

    Attached Files:


Share This Page

 
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice