370 Sako Mag (9.3x66)

[Mulga]

mulga,
you might find 2209 just a little slow for that case.
it is about as slow as you can go in the x64 case which has a little more capacity.
it is too slow in that case for bullets lighter than 286 gn, although acceptable with 250 gn.
a thing in your favour with it is that if you work up loads, you can compress it fairly heavily.
beware re15 if looking for a faster powder.
it peaks out very fast and loads safe in cold weather might blow primers in hot weather..
bruce.

Thanks Bruce. Yes Reloader 15 would be a better choice. I have a good supply of AR2209 and AR2208 As per the pdf linked below there is quite a big gap in the ADI powder burn rates. I will try to get some RE15 but there seems to be a bit of a shortage of things at the moment.

https://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/burn_rates.pdf

 

[bruce moulds]

that powder (cfe223?) that bob whelen uses in his 35 whelen might be worth a try but such things are hard to get here in oz.
re15 has a similar burning rate to 2208.
i just mentioned it more in terms of the way it can peak out on you.
bruce.

 

[Petrovič]

Congrats Mulga on your new Sako Grizzly!!! Very very beautiful rifle and somewhat expensive. I had it in my hands, toiled to buy it, but found it a bit front heavy at 3.5 kg.
So I finally baught a Brno ZKK 600 (not the heavy ZKK 602) in 9.3x64 on EGUN (Germany) 2nd hand for good price - with a special transport to SVK it will be about Euro 700 - USD 850! And it looks slightly used, good barrel and trigger, double "square bridge" and even Diopter!
So I am currently excited, looking for reloading dies etc. but the Covid making me waiting for delivery for another month! Next year Africa, the Brno comes with me. If someone has the ZKK 600 please let me know your experience.
cheers all

 

[Muskox]

I think it is would be a neat round, but for the travelling hunter it is a logistical problem as they aren't going to be a common one.

 

[bruce moulds]

i had a 600 in 270.
it shot accurately, but i would if i had one now change 2 things.
the single set trigger should be replaced with the std trigger, which should be worked over to give a light crisp pull.
i did this on the 270 and it was a great improvement.
the other thing i would do is completely restock the rifle.
neither of the stock choices on the 600 were much good.
these 2 things will create a rifle worth keeping until you die.
bruce.
i forgot a 3rd thing.
under the rear sight was a screw that went into the forend.
this was removed on mine and the barrel floated..
that screw is probably good on dangerous game calibres where accuracy is not as critical.

 

[bruce moulds]

your brno in 9.3x64 with the problems fixed will be a poweful rifle with a bit of reach.
the cartridge is what the 9.3x66 tries to be but cannot ever be.
shooting the x64 has revealed that it is definitely a better killer than the x62.
this can be observed by the fact that at closer ranges where it is faster than the x62 it kills more emphatically than further out where speed is reduced to x62 velocities.
due to the extra speed available in the x64, you need to be selective with projectiles, as many 9.3 bullets are designed for x62 velocities.
bruce.

 

[Petrovič]

Hello Bruce and thanks for comments. Actually I want to address all 3 issues.
1) The seller says the trigger has been changed and is excellent now.
2) I want to restock it for my long body, possibly 14 7/8" and new bedding with removing the screw.
3) I already baught excellent s. african Peregrine 50 pcs of 230grs copper spitzers (probably load ar. 2900 fts) for plains game to 300 yards. I also have 50+50 pcs of 285grs copper soft and solid flat point bullets that are designed to shoot to same POI (ar. 2500 fts easy) for buffalo, hippo etc.! Just hope that the flatpoints will chamber well (in my 9.3x62 Henell NO!).
I am also looking at Noslers *E-Tip 250grs for allround alternative. Would be even better if there were 260-270grs copper SP. (Lapua used to make Naturalis 270grs but I do not see them anymore).
regards!

 

[bruce moulds]

just be wary of solid copper bullets being longer and encroaching on powder space.
bruce.

 

[Petrovič]

Good point. The Barness TSX FB 250grs does not have that plastic tip, so is probably shorter! cheers.

 

[Mulga]

Congrats Mulga on your new Sako Grizzly!!! Very very beautiful rifle and somewhat expensive. I had it in my hands, toiled to buy it, but found it a bit front heavy at 3.5 kg.
So I finally baught a Brno ZKK 600 (not the heavy ZKK 602) in 9.3x64 on EGUN (Germany) 2nd hand for good price - with a special transport to SVK it will be about Euro 700 - USD 850! And it looks slightly used, good barrel and trigger, double "square bridge" and even Diopter!
So I am currently excited, looking for reloading dies etc. but the Covid making me waiting for delivery for another month! Next year Africa, the Brno comes with me. If someone has the ZKK 600 please let me know your experience.
cheers all

Thanks. The rifle was an impulse buy, it was advertised second hand and bundled with dies, brass and projectiles, worked out to be about half the retail price. It points and balances very well for me and as for weight it is light enough for the chambering without being too difficult to manage.

 

[Petrovič]

Wow it is just so beautiful rifel to look at and short! At this price with the dies and bullets etc. I would buy it myself! But I have a selfimposed weight of 3.3 kg, so if new I would buy the standard 9.3x66 (370 Sako) Classic or maybe the stainless composite at 2.9 kg only! I may still buy it one day because of lightness.
I think it has max pressure of 4100 Bars, compered to 9.3x62 of 3900 Bars and 9.3x64 of 4300 Bars, so it is inbetween. (I looked up - 1 Bar is nearly a weight of air at sea level - atmosferic pressure).
How does it eject the spent bras?? No problems hitting scope or falling back???
regards,

 

[Mulga]

How does it eject the spent bras?? No problems hitting scope or falling back???

This being my first Model 85 I had read on the web this was a problem with some rifles. Purchasing this rifle I considered this extraction issue as a potential cause of the greatly reduced price. However this rifle extracts perfectly fine. Also from what I have read the extraction issue is an easy fix with a heavier/stronger extractor spring.

As for the weight, it is entirely an individuals personal philosophy of use; for me it is picking the right tool for the job. This Sako is not a mountain rifle, I have a Kimber Mountain Ascent in 280AI, scoped with a Swarovski Z3 2-10x42 and a full magazine it weighs a shade over 3Kg which does that job very nicely.

But in my mind rifle handling and counting grams are two different things, a rifle which is heavier (within reason) that can manage recoil in a way that allows for a faster follow up shot is superior to one that doesn't; of course muzzle breaks and porting can come into this equation, as a matter of fact the above mentioned Kimber has a muzzle break. In the greater scheme of things it makes no real logic to squabble over a few hundred grams, probably smarter to lay off the beer and wurst and hit the gym to loose a Kg or two, add some fitness and strength.

 

[bruce moulds]

your last point is one of the most sensible i have read for a while.
along with not carrying unnecessary crap on the journey.
bruce.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I used mine in Namibia this year it worked well. I had to do a very quick load development. Ended up using Reloader 19 for 2700 fps with a 250 gr Accubond.

@Spooksar
So no different to the 338 win mag or a properly loaded Whelen. Just a slightly larger diameter. My gunsmith built one for a gentleman in Australia but brass for it here is harder to get than rocking horse poop.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Accuracy life of 2-300 rounds?

@ZG47
With a case capacity like that you would only get a bit over 2 reloads per pound of powder. At the current prices over your way that would equate to around 80 dollars a shot for powder, prime and bullet not to mention the cost of brass.
I would hate to buying a box of 20.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

that powder (cfe223?) that bob whelen uses in his 35 whelen might be worth a try but such things are hard to get here in oz.
re15 has a similar burning rate to 2208.
i just mentioned it more in terms of the way it can peak out on you.
bruce.

@bruce moulds and @ Mulga
CFE223 sits between 2208/ Varget and 2209/4350 in burn rate, but alas it is no longer imported into OZ. When I found that out I stocked up on 10 kilos of it so have enough for a lifetime.
Bob.

 

[Mulga]

@Spooksar
So no different to the 338 win mag or a properly loaded Whelen. Just a slightly larger diameter. My gunsmith built one for a gentleman in Australia but brass for it here is harder to get than rocking horse poop.
Bob

Hi Bob. The 35 Whelen is a good comparison, the 338 win Mag not so much as it is a very different beast, powder capacity, action length etc. However the 338-06 would be a closer comparison I have one and push a 200gr projectile @ 2800fps.

On my readings across the interwebs a fair bit of 'dislike' is laid down onto the 9.3x66 Sako. I understand the dislike, just like I dislike the 6.5 Creedmoor, what can the Creedmoor do that my 260 Rem cant! The success of the Creedmoor is largely marketing and hype, as the design of the case is not that radical or spectacular and from a terminal performance point of view does nothing the 6.5x55 Sweed didn't do 117 years previous. So resolved to thinking my dislike for the Creedmoor is less a technical dislike but rather an emotional one, and mostly from the silly twits flocking too it, believing it is the best thing since sliced bread!

I can understand the 'dislike' for the 9.3x66 Sako, but my decision to purchase it was purely emotional; an impulse buy, it has cool factor, I have a long history and like for Sako's and finally I had never played with any caliber over .338. So largely by buying it I unknowingly walked into an maelstrom of opinion and dislike.

Below is my take on Sako's reasoning; for what it is worth. But really given the powder stack, case volume and action length, I cant really expect any more from this cartridge than the 62.

My take on the great mystery why Sako introduced a new 9.3 cartridge (for that action length) was relating to factory ammo (loaded pressures) and the number of older and potentially weaker actioned rifles in circulation; the factory 9.3x66 can be powered up but not mistakenly chambered in a 9.3x62 rifle. But from a hand loaders perspective this is moot point. In the US Federal released the 9.3x66 Sako as the 370 Sako Magnum.

BTW I bought extra brass through my local gun shop, Beretta had plenty in stock when I ordered.

 

[bruce moulds]

the creedmoor cannot do what the x55 can do loaded to the same pressures.
it is a wonderful round for its original intent which is poking holes in targets at 800, 900, and 1000 yds when sling shooting.
shooting game with it at those ranges is just inhumane.
with regards the 9.3x66, i do not hate it, but just think the x64 already existed and is a bit more of a good thing in a 30/06 length action.
bruce.

 

[Mulga]

the creedmoor cannot do what the x55 can do loaded to the same pressures.
it is a wonderful round for its original intent which is poking holes in targets at 800, 900, and 1000 yds when sling shooting.
shooting game with it at those ranges is just inhumane.

Sure Bruce, I agree with what your saying. But if your comments are meant to relate to my reasoning I reckon you have missed my point?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hi Bob. The 35 Whelen is a good comparison, the 338 win Mag not so much as it is a very different beast, powder capacity, action length etc. However the 338-06 would be a closer comparison I have one and push a 200gr projectile @ 2800fps.

On my readings across the interwebs a fair bit of 'dislike' is laid down onto the 9.3x66 Sako. I understand the dislike, just like I dislike the 6.5 Creedmoor, what can the Creedmoor do that my 260 Rem cant! The success of the Creedmoor is largely marketing and hype, as the design of the case is not that radical or spectacular and from a terminal performance point of view does nothing the 6.5x55 Sweed didn't do 117 years previous. So resolved to thinking my dislike for the Creedmoor is less a technical dislike but rather an emotional one, and mostly from the silly twits flocking too it, believing it is the best thing since sliced bread!

I can understand the 'dislike' for the 9.3x66 Sako, but my decision to purchase it was purely emotional; an impulse buy, it has cool factor, I have a long history and like for Sako's and finally I had never played with any caliber over .338. So largely by buying it I unknowingly walked into an maelstrom of opinion and dislike.

Below is my take on Sako's reasoning; for what it is worth. But really given the powder stack, case volume and action length, I cant really expect any more from this cartridge than the 62.


BTW I bought extra brass through my local gun shop, Beretta had plenty in stock when I ordered.

@Mulga
I understand your love of Sako rifles but in my opinion since they have gone to a 3 lug bolt they went down hill.
I completely understand to cool factor as my 25 is just COOL.

Advertising is responsible for killing good cartridges like the 260 and 358 and promoted others with so much bullshit that everyone believed it like the 243 and the 6.5 man bun. Take a 250 savage AI change the shoulder a angle a bit and neck it up a mill and a bit and you have a new wonder cartridge. Well whoopee shit the 6.5 Swede and the 260 have been doing the same for years.
Call me an old fuddy duddy but If'n it ain't broke don't fix it. Old is good just use newer powders available now they and it is even better than it ever was like the 7x57, 30/06 and the Whelen. Loaded properly they all give great service.
Bob