.338-06 or .35 Whelen

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have to admit, I was thinking about a .338-06 for a long minute there. But I have come to my senses, and am sticking to the 35 Whelen.
To me, the .338-06 has 2 detrimental factors that I needed to hear about:
# 1 - It runs at a much higher pressure to get it to be almost equal to the .35 Whelen.
# 2 - The majority of bullets for the .338 caliber are more stoutly made than any .358 cal rifle bullet, because of all of the whiz-bang magnums.

I don’t want a bullet acting like a full metal jacket bullet when I’m out hunting. I want it to expand, and dump its energy into the game I’m going after.

I know that the Woodleigh bullets are excellent bullets. The only problem with them here is that they cost an arm and a leg to get. If I would get them regularly, then I need to be independently wealthy to do so.

But, I see better things with a 35 Whelen than I do with a .338-06.

To those that use the .338-06, I say to to you, Congratulations!
But it’s not for me.
I will stick with the .35 Whelen!


Hawk

@hawkeyesatx
You will find that the two run similar pressures when loaded properly mate.
And here's me thinking you were independently wealthy but just slumming it using that cheap Savage action.
Both are good rounds bit I think the reasons you have chosen for your selection is valid.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@ BobNelson35Whelen

What make of barrel do you have on your rifle?

I’m going to get the ER Shaw Stainless one that they sell here as a barrel change kit.
I believe it should serve me well.


Hawk

@hawkeyesatx
I have a stainless steel barrel made by TSE/MAB in Australia.
I have heard both good and bad about Shaw barrels. Just google Shaw barrel reviews to get an idea.
Bob

 

[hawkeyesatx]

@hawkeyesatx
You will find that the two run similar pressures when loaded properly mate.
And here's me thinking you were independently wealthy but just slumming it using that cheap Savage action.
Both are good rounds bit I think the reasons you have chosen for your selection is valid.
Bob

Yes, you are correct. The cartridges can run around the same pressures, but I know that the 35 Whelen doesn’t have the quick pressure spikes a .338-06 does.
At least in the 35 Whelen, you can go a little higher in pressure.
Not so with the .338-06. It maxes out right away.
I know there is something kinda “magical” about the .358 bore, that it handles pressures much better than smaller medium bores.
Yeah, I’m not independently wealthy, but I’m not dirt poor either.
Even if I were independently wealthy, I’d still pick a Savage action. Granted, they’re not beautiful, but they as strong, if not stronger than most other actions.
My first high powered rifle was a Savage 110GXP3 combo, and I loved that rifle! It was hyper-accurate, and it never showed any pressure signs for being a 7mm Rem Mag. I won many a bet against buddies that had Winchester M70’s that were more beautiful as well as Remington M700’s, and would win $20 occasionally. Shoot, I even let them touch off some rounds, and they were more accurate with my rifle.
I have looked at the reviews on the Shaw barrels, and the newer reviews give it glowing reports.
The really old reviews had some bad ones, but I have a sneaking feeling that the majority of those were inexperienced shooters.
I have a pretty good system of barrel break in.


Hawk

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Yes, you are correct. The cartridges can run around the same pressures, but I know that the 35 Whelen doesn’t have the quick pressure spikes a .338-06 does.
At least in the 35 Whelen, you can go a little higher in pressure.
Not so with the .338-06. It maxes out right away.
I know there is something kinda “magical” about the .358 bore, that it handles pressures much better than smaller medium bores.
Yeah, I’m not independently wealthy, but I’m not dirt poor either.
Even if I were independently wealthy, I’d still pick a Savage action. Granted, they’re not beautiful, but they as strong, if not stronger than most other actions.
My first high powered rifle was a Savage 110GXP3 combo, and I loved that rifle! It was hyper-accurate, and it never showed any pressure signs for being a 7mm Rem Mag. I won many a bet against buddies that had Winchester M70’s that were more beautiful as well as Remington M700’s, and would win $20 occasionally. Shoot, I even let them touch off some rounds, and they were more accurate with my rifle.
I have looked at the reviews on the Shaw barrels, and the newer reviews give it glowing reports.
The really old reviews had some bad ones, but I have a sneaking feeling that the majority of those were inexperienced shooters.
I have a pretty good system of barrel break in.


Hawk

@hawkeyesatx

Hawk how is this one for a a Savage. It's a No4 SMLE made by Savage in 1943. It is rebarreled to to my 303/25 Epps newton improved. It shoots a 117grain SSTs at 3,000 fps into lest than 3/4" groups at 100 yards all day.
Bob

 

[hawkeyesatx]

@hawkeyesatx

View attachment 415037
Hawk how is this one for a a Savage. It's a No4 SMLE made by Savage in 1943. It is rebarreled to to my 303/25 Epps newton improved. It shoots a 117grain SSTs at 3,000 fps into lest than 3/4" groups at 100 yards all day.
Bob

Oooo! Love that one too!
Nice looking SMLE!
That's amazing speed! Holy !!


Hawk

 

[mdwest]

@mdwest
Have you finished your trip write up and where can I read it. I was following it but can't find it now.
Bob

Hi Bob,

I got busy around the campfire, and stopped posting in the hunt review thread for a few days.. We were doing some long nights and early mornings and I decided getting a few extra minutes of sleep was more important ....

I managed to sort through some pics last night, and will start updating the hunt report thread this afternoon once I get past morning meetings and can sneak back onto AH

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hi Bob,

I got busy around the campfire, and stopped posting in the hunt review thread for a few days.. We were doing some long nights and early mornings and I decided getting a few extra minutes of sleep was more important ....

I managed to sort through some pics last night, and will start updating the hunt report thread this afternoon once I get past morning meetings and can sneak back onto AH

@mdwest
Looking forward to it especially on how the Whelen performed.
What loads were you using in your wifes Whelen
Bob.

 

[mdwest]

They were pretty light loads honestly.. just 200gr Barnes TTSX, in once fired Remington Brass, Winchester LR primers, and a load of IMR 4064 that pushed the projectiles about 2700 fps..

If that will knock an eland to its knees at 235 yards.. imagine what a 250gr projectile loaded to the same velocity will do

 

[C.W. Richter]

That's quite impressive!

Love the photos.


I'm thinking that whichever I choose, I'm going to go on a micro safari here in Texas, where I can get a feel of what the .338-06 or .35 Whelen can do.

There are ranches around me that have Nilgai on them, and I can't think of a better way to test my entire setup than that.

Nilgai are large, and extremely tough.
Apparently, very good eating as well.


Hawk

I did the same thing long ago with my weatherby 338-06 testing it out in the Hill country mainly with oryx, but what I quickly learned was that they will charge and try to spear you if at close range it sees you and is not immediately put down! That was the impetus for a quick follow-up shot. The animal was hit perfectly in the heart lung area with both shots, but the shot was at only 60 yards using the old barnes X bullets. Rather than expand the bullets zipped right through, so I think a traditional expanding bullet like a 250 gr nosler partition would have done a better job at the modest velocity of the 06 case. My son later had the same experience using a hot 6.5 with barnes but I switched up to a hotter 338 a square for good effect on oryx in Africa, though my son also later conducted an oryx meat hunt to good effect in Namibia using a 30-06 and 200-220 grain soft points. Bullet choice is fairly important for animals that will kill you! Have seen and helped release a number of Nilgai and have an old black and white fred bear video of he bagging one in India. Everyone says the meat is quite delicious!

 

[Duvel]

I have three 35 Whelen’s(one is an Ackley improved) and two 338-06’s. After extensive use of each, I default to the 35 Whelen. I’ve even used the 35 to whack a few coyotes. It doesn’t have the “rainbow” trajectory people make it out to have. With 225gr Sierra game kings and a fixed 4x scope, you are good out to 325 yards with no issue. 280gr Swift’s for larger/tougher game.

All that said, I still like the 338-06 a lot! So you probably need to get both.

 

[hawkeyesatx]

I did the same thing long ago with my weatherby 338-06 testing it out in the Hill country mainly with oryx, but what I quickly learned was that they will charge and try to spear you if at close range it sees you and is not immediately put down! That was the impetus for a quick follow-up shot. The animal was hit perfectly in the heart lung area with both shots, but the shot was at only 60 yards using the old barnes X bullets. Rather than expand the bullets zipped right through, so I think a traditional expanding bullet like a 250 gr nosler partition would have done a better job at the modest velocity of the 06 case. My son later had the same experience using a hot 6.5 with barnes but I switched up to a hotter 338 a square for good effect on oryx in Africa, though my son also later conducted an oryx meat hunt to good effect in Namibia using a 30-06 and 200-220 grain soft points. Bullet choice is fairly important for animals that will kill you! Have seen and helped release a number of Nilgai and have an old black and white fred bear video of he bagging one in India. Everyone says the meat is quite delicious!

See, that’s the thing with the .338-06, that I’ve realized.
The bullet selection argument is nil since the majority of bullets are meant for the Magnum cartridges.

So, in reality, you have the same amount of bullets that the 35 Whelen has.

With that being said, one has to be smart in using the softer bullets for the 338-06. I certainly don’t want any animal being wounded, and playing possum, then attacking me when I get close enough to make sure it’s dead.


Hawk

 

[hawkeyesatx]

I have three 35 Whelen’s(one is an Ackley improved) and two 338-06’s. After extensive use of each, I default to the 35 Whelen. I’ve even used the 35 to whack a few coyotes. It doesn’t have the “rainbow” trajectory people make it out to have. With 225gr Sierra game kings and a fixed 4x scope, you are good out to 325 yards with no issue. 280gr Swift’s for larger/tougher game.

All that said, I still like the 338-06 a lot! So you probably need to get both.

And another thing!

I am keeping a .30-06 in my battery, because it’s just that good of a cartridge to have. Plus, you just have to go with a winner, sometimes.

And, I have in my battery an 8x57 Mauser, that is an equal to the ‘06.
So, I think I am set for hunting.

Hawk

 

[hawkeyesatx]

I have three 35 Whelen’s(one is an Ackley improved) and two 338-06’s. After extensive use of each, I default to the 35 Whelen. I’ve even used the 35 to whack a few coyotes. It doesn’t have the “rainbow” trajectory people make it out to have. With 225gr Sierra game kings and a fixed 4x scope, you are good out to 325 yards with no issue. 280gr Swift’s for larger/tougher game.

All that said, I still like the 338-06 a lot! So you probably need to get both.

The funny thing is, I was just thinking that same thing!

I’m going to go with the regular 35 Whelen first, and eventually get a 338-06, and probably use the bullets out there that are meant for the 338 Federal in it.

Now I just have to find someone to trade a rifle I have to get another Savage 110/111 action and buy the ER Shaw barrel switch kit, to turn that into a 338-06.

Ah, the choices, the choices….


Hawk

 

[Roatmtn]

I’m having a serious conundrum going on.

I have my project Savage 111, but I have been pricing aftermarket switch barrels.
The .35 Whelen barrel, a 24 inch, 1 in 14 inch twist = $239
I found a .338-06 barrel, 24 inch, 1-10 inch twist = $206

I know, that both are pretty much equal when it comes to performance.

So what do you guys have to say?

I already know what Bob is going to say- that’s a given. LOL


Hawk

I have only experience with the 9.3 x 62 Mauser in Africa. It killed one rogue elephant, four cape buffalo, warthogs, and a few other animals. ONE shot per animal. NOT BAD! I really can't see any difference with the 35 Whelen with comparable bullet weights. The .338-06 is actually in the same class as the first two cartridges. I prefer the 9.3 x 62 Mauser because it is a international cartridge and ammo can be purchased world wide....not so the 338-06 nor the 35 Whelen. Also, there has been a lot of ballistic research for loads in the 9.3 x 62. Now we can get 2,500 feet per second and more with a 286 grain bullet. This velocity comes with 64-66 grains of Big Game Powder. This nicely matches the velocity of the .375 H&H Magnum. The 9.3 has always delivered the killing performance of the .375 H&H without the recoil at around 2300 fps and in a lighter rifle. Believe me, your tail feathers will be dragging the ground after a long hot day in the bush with a heavy rifle. I am age 69 now. Ammunition and guns are much less expensive and again is lighter to carry on your hunts without the recoil. It is one of the great cartridges of the world. The 9.3 can be used out to 300 yards as can the other cartridges. World wide the 9.3 is more versatile with ammo availability. CZ is a good place to buy a new rifle BUT a after market barrel is a much better way to go. The .338-06 and 35 Whelen are not legal for dangerous game in most African countries where the 9.3 is legal in many African Countries. The end of this story is all three will do the same job if the bullets are placed in the correct place on the animal. I used a 26" barreled .270 on all of the other animals from tiny dik dik to 2,000 lb. eland. One shot each except on a big waterbuk that I shot a wee far back. I shot him again. I really like the 9.3 Mauser. Roatmtn

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

The funny thing is, I was just thinking that same thing!

I’m going to go with the regular 35 Whelen first, and eventually get a 338-06, and probably use the bullets out there that are meant for the 338 Federal in it.

Now I just have to find someone to trade a rifle I have to get another Savage 110/111 action and buy the ER Shaw barrel switch kit, to turn that into a 338-06.

Ah, the choices, the choices….


Hawk

@hawkeyesatx
Seeing you already have a Savage just get another barrel and make it a switch barrel. Sort of like a poor man's R8 blazer.
Bob

 

[hawkeyesatx]

I have only experience with the 9.3 x 62 Mauser in Africa. It killed one rogue elephant, four cape buffalo, warthogs, and a few other animals. ONE shot per animal. NOT BAD! I really can't see any difference with the 35 Whelen with comparable bullet weights. The .338-06 is actually in the same class as the first two cartridges. I prefer the 9.3 x 62 Mauser because it is a international cartridge and ammo can be purchased world wide....not so the 338-06 nor the 35 Whelen. Also, there has been a lot of ballistic research for loads in the 9.3 x 62. Now we can get 2,500 feet per second and more with a 286 grain bullet. This velocity comes with 64-66 grains of Big Game Powder. This nicely matches the velocity of the .375 H&H Magnum. The 9.3 has always delivered the killing performance of the .375 H&H without the recoil at around 2300 fps and in a lighter rifle. Believe me, your tail feathers will be dragging the ground after a long hot day in the bush with a heavy rifle. I am age 69 now. Ammunition and guns are much less expensive and again is lighter to carry on your hunts without the recoil. It is one of the great cartridges of the world. The 9.3 can be used out to 300 yards as can the other cartridges. World wide the 9.3 is more versatile with ammo availability. CZ is a good place to buy a new rifle BUT a after market barrel is a much better way to go. The .338-06 and 35 Whelen are not legal for dangerous game in most African countries where the 9.3 is legal in many African Countries. The end of this story is all three will do the same job if the bullets are placed in the correct place on the animal. I used a 26" barreled .270 on all of the other animals from tiny dik dik to 2,000 lb. eland. One shot each except on a big waterbuk that I shot a wee far back. I shot him again. I really like the 9.3 Mauser. Roatmtn

You know, your post makes a lot of sense!
I don’t know why I wasn’t looking at the 9.3x62 more.
I’m checking it out now, and will study it more. It will certainly fill the bill if, and when I get to Africa.

Thank you for pointing it out more to me!


Hawk

 

[hawkeyesatx]

@hawkeyesatx
Seeing you already have a Savage just get another barrel and make it a switch barrel. Sort of like a poor man's R8 blazer.
Bob

I have a feeling that is what I’m going to be doing with my Savage!



Hawk

 

[Red Leg]

I did the same thing long ago with my weatherby 338-06 testing it out in the Hill country mainly with oryx, but what I quickly learned was that they will charge and try to spear you if at close range it sees you and is not immediately put down! That was the impetus for a quick follow-up shot. The animal was hit perfectly in the heart lung area with both shots, but the shot was at only 60 yards using the old barnes X bullets. Rather than expand the bullets zipped right through, so I think a traditional expanding bullet like a 250 gr nosler partition would have done a better job at the modest velocity of the 06 case. My son later had the same experience using a hot 6.5 with barnes but I switched up to a hotter 338 a square for good effect on oryx in Africa, though my son also later conducted an oryx meat hunt to good effect in Namibia using a 30-06 and 200-220 grain soft points. Bullet choice is fairly important for animals that will kill you! Have seen and helped release a number of Nilgai and have an old black and white fred bear video of he bagging one in India. Everyone says the meat is quite delicious!

Our Texas oryx must be a far more dangerous subspecies than those found in Southern Africa!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have a feeling that is what I’m going to be doing with my Savage!



Hawk

@hawkeyesatx
You could also get a 9.3x62 and 30 ought six barrels and have the complete set if you throw in a 280AI as well. Learn how to change the bolt head as well in five minutes and barrel in another 5 minutes and get a Magnum bolt head and a 458 barrel.
The options are endless.
Bob

 

[hawkeyesatx]

@hawkeyesatx
You could also get a 9.3x62 and 30 ought six barrels and have the complete set if you throw in a 280AI as well. Learn how to change the bolt head as well in five minutes and barrel in another 5 minutes and get a Magnum bolt head and a 458 barrel.
The options are endless.
Bob

Well…..

I already have a .30-06. My Remington M700 BDL.
Another guy that I know here said to change it into a 280 AI, as well.
If I’m going to change the bolt head, I think I would get a 375 Ruger barrel. I’m not much of a fan of the .458 Win Mag.

But all good ideas Bob!

Thank you!

Hawk