.277 Sig Fury for hunters

[CBH Australia]

Ok, we've heard NATO may be adopting the 6.8x51 Sig round.

An article on an Australian magazine says it looks like the Australian army will adopt it but there is a civilian designation of .277 Sig Fury of you can find ammo etc.

It seems to run at higher pressures because of a special case using an Stainless Steal case head attached to a brass case.

Is that a reloading proposition?

Assuming pressure increases velocity does anyone know what it's muzzle velocity using a given barrel length?

It's a .270 calibre so does it offer anything more for rifle hunters?

Is it going to be the elusive flat shooting cartridge that is a real changer?

 

[BeeMaa]

The 277 SIG Fury and 6.8x51mm are identical.

SAAMI designated the 277 SIG Fury for certification. The US military has designated it the 6.8x51mm for solicitation of rifles for bid and trials.

As for reloading SIG says they are working on it, but don't recommend it. The 2 part stainless steel head with brass chamber is used for the tremendous pressure (80,000 psi) generated by this cartridge. This was done to generate nearly 3000 fps from a 140 grain bullet from a 16 inch barrel for use in military applications.

One can only imagine the velocity capability when coupled with a 24" hunting barrel and the proper burn rate powder. It's like Roy Weatherby meets Jack O'Connor with a dash of giddy up powder!

As for the benefit to the hunter...same performance in a shorter barrel if that is important to you. Trade off with not being able to reload until SIG works out whatever they have to. Probably stay with your 270WIN because it's all you will really need...that's what I'd do until all the kinks are worked out.

 

[RTG]

It’s a great round for hunting with a suppressor. Full velocity with a 16” barrel, overall length of a traditional rifle with suppressor installed. IMO the only downside of hunting with a suppressor is hiking through trees with such a long rifle. 277 Fury let’s you have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Hunter4752001]

As pointed out, the 6.8x51 has a designated operating pressure of 80,000 psi. This is way higher than any of the current sporting rifles are designed for. Its also higher than any of the military weapons are designed for (except of course for the Sig ). As a consequence, the only rifles to handle the cartridge will be those modified by Bubba or those made by Sig Sauer. (It would be useful to get an authoritive opinion from Blaser as to whether the R8 is proofed to handle 80,000 psi)

From a military viewpoint. Outside of the new Sig Sauer, while the cartridge will fit into the 7.62 NATO envelope, none of the current systems will handle the pressure levels. That means existing 7.62x51 NATO weapons can't be simply re-barrelled ie a complete small arms replacement will be required.

I take with a grain of salt, media reports claiming NATO and Australia are going to change to 6.8x51 irrespective of the paper ballistic advantages.. I suspect the media articles are largely push marketing from Sig Sauer and their paid hangers on.

In the case of NATO, half of the member countries have bitter memories of replacing their previous holding with 7.62 NATO weapons, only to be pressured a few years later to change to 5.56. The other half of NATO comprises former Soviet Block countries. Their armories are full of a diabolical mix of Soviet era weapons together with 7.62 NATO and 5.56 NATO weapons. That creates significant logistics and training complications. They also face a potential immediate threat from an unstable Russia on their doorstep. Now would be a very bad time to further complicate the small arms and ammunition situation.

A similar situation exists in Australia. In the small arms engineering and assessment areas, there are still bitter memories of pressures forcing the 7.62 NATO to 5.56 transition, followed by several specification changes to 5.56 in terms of projectiles, chamber specs and pressure time curves which has resulted in at least 3 different types of 5.56 ammo being currently needed depending on which weapon system they are required for. Add to that and ever few years US designers come out with a new wonder cartridge they want the world to convert to. Among the group of small arms engineers there appears to be little support for converting to 6.8x51. Unfortunately the Defence Dep't is a very large entity and decisions will be made on political grounds together with the more insidious effects of 'lobbying'.

From the Sig Sauer point of view, they've hit the jackpot. They've been able to get the largest military in the free world to sign up to a cartridge which only they can make and which can only be fired in a weapon system they produce. Goldmine! It also has the knock on effect that smaller nations may be forced to follow on due to the need to be compatible with the manufacturing and support base that the US provides.

Even Bill Gates in his Microsoft days couldn't have engineered a more Machiavellian marketing outcome.

 

[rdog]

Ok, we've heard NATO may be adopting the 6.8x51 Sig round.

An article on an Australian magazine says it looks like the Australian army will adopt it but there is a civilian designation of .277 Sig Fury of you can find ammo etc.

It seems to run at higher pressures because of a special case using an Stainless Steal case head attached to a brass case.

Is that a reloading proposition?

Assuming pressure increases velocity does anyone know what it's muzzle velocity using a given barrel length?

It's a .270 calibre so does it offer anything more for rifle hunters?

Is it going to be the elusive flat shooting cartridge that is a real changer?

I can see no sense in this cartridge ,the infantry soldier does not need such a powerful round the 6.5 grendel or 6.8 spc make sense , & what would barrel life be like in a GPMG the current 7.62 NATO does a good job now .

 

[CBH Australia]

I missed the point of it being developed for a 16" barrel.

There is a Sign built .277 Fury rifle listed by an Australian retailer.

SIG CROSS RIFLE - BLACK

The Outpost has Australia's best range of firearms and related accessories. A gunshop for enthusiasts, by enthusiasts!

theoutpostarms.com.au

Originally I read the US has placed orders for a good number for assessment and consideration in certain units.

They could probably run .7mm-08 in most of the existing platforms with a barrel change.

Presumably the equipment has a proofing that would permit the use of a hot 7mm-08 round or whatever the designation would be.

I'm sure lots of things were considered but a bit of research and development on powders and projectiles might have achieved something thats would go near the new round that requires the whole armament to be changed out.

Who knows, a bit of CFE223, some Aussie ingenuity loading it to "Full Potential" it might have made the mark

 

[Flewis]

I talked to a guy at sig last year and they didn’t have a real release date. I’m sure they have some out there.

 

[RTG]

I talked to a guy at sig last year and they didn’t have a real release date. I’m sure they have some out there.

Sig Cross in 277 Fury was to be released in 2020 but SAAMI standardization was delayed due to covid closures. Since then it has taken Sig forever to get SAAMI on board and they won’t do a pre-saami release for liability reasons.

A small number of Sig Spear rifles in 277 Fury were released commercially. Not sure if any Cross/fury bolt guns are floating around the US or only overseas samples.

Sig’s first 277 Fury hunting option is below. None has left Sig yet, but you can order it, so I think the release is coming soon.

​

SIG H277SFAB15020​

Brand: SIG SAUER
UPC: 798681650378
Description: SIG AMMO 277 SIG FURY 150GR ACCUBOND HYBRID
MSRP: $79.95
Ammo Type: Rifle
Caliber: 277 FURY
Grain Weight: 150 gr
Qty Per Package: 20
Muzzle Velocity: [16in 2830] [24in 3120]
Muzzle Energy: [16in 2667] [24in 3242]

Ballistic Coefficient (G1): 0.500​

 

[Puddle]

As pointed out, the 6.8x51 has a designated operating pressure of 80,000 psi. This is way higher than any of the current sporting rifles are designed for. Its also higher than any of the military weapons are designed for (except of course for the Sig ). As a consequence, the only rifles to handle the cartridge will be those modified by Bubba or those made by Sig Sauer. (It would be useful to get an authoritive opinion from Blaser as to whether the R8 is proofed to handle 80,000 psi)

'ol Bubba best check with his liability insurance agent before he does his first rebarrel job....

 

[ZG47]

What is even sillier with the U.S new cartridge nonsense is that: the .338 machine gun cartridge is essentially an attempt to replicate the performance of the 7.92x57 IS sS 198 grain machine gun load introduced in 1917 or 1918 (I am currently away from my library) and which inspired the creation of the British. 303 Mk VIII belt fed machine gun load, adopted in 1939.

 

[Mekaniks]

Sounds like a .270-308

 

[425SCHADE]

Or the .270 Redding etc, etc, from some time ago. However this is sure to be "brand new".

 

[BourbonTrail]

Adding even more points of failure and more complex manufacturing to a military project…what could go wrong.

At least civilians could solve the kinks

 

[CBH Australia]

'ol Bubba best check with his liability insurance agent before he does his first rebarrel job....

Who is Bubba?

Or the .270 Redding etc, etc, from some time ago. However this is sure to be "brand new".

Yep, Just like Aguila ammo has been "introduced" to Australia. I know I bought Mexican made Aguila .22lr ammo in Myra's Sports store over 30 years ago. I don't know who the importer/wholesaler was.

 

[Inline6]

I can see no sense in this cartridge ,the infantry soldier does not need such a powerful round the 6.5 grendel or 6.8 spc make sense , & what would barrel life be like in a GPMG the current 7.62 NATO does a good job now .

More power and reduced weight. Also designed for shorter barrels so they can run suppressors.

 

[ashtonjanke4]

I can see no sense in this cartridge ,the infantry soldier does not need such a powerful round the 6.5 grendel or 6.8 spc make sense , & what would barrel life be like in a GPMG the current 7.62 NATO does a good job now .

It can defeat body armour at greater distance and also get more velocity with a shorter barrel

 

[Red Leg]

It is all about body armor. Everyone has it now, and the good stuff is pretty good.

 

[CBH Australia]

It can defeat body armour at greater distance and also get more velocity with a shorter barrel

It is all about body armor. Everyone has it now, and the good stuff is pretty good.

Any thoughts on whether this would be a better cartridge for hunting if it's chambered in a suitable rifle with a 22" or 24" barrel?

Whats the potential of the civilian version .277Sig Fury for hunting?

Is the potential velocity a game changer for flatter trajectory etc?

Whats it's potential (6.8x51) Sig as a sniper rifle in the same space where a 7.62x51 is generally used? Any great ballistic advantage with drop, drift or retained energy, penetration from a designated sniper rifle?

 

[Hunter4752001]

.277 SIG Fury is already SAAMI accepted. The specification drawing has an issue date of 23 SEP 2020.

I suspect that the hyped 'reduced weight' will be negligible in terms of the load carried by the average infantryman. Given the round has the same size envelope as 7.62 NATO, magazine capacity and load carrying arrangements will be similar to that for the NATO round. Likewise I suspect a 7.62 NATO (or even a 6.5 Creedmoor) with a 16" barrel would be easier to suppress than a cartridge with an 80,000 psi peak pressure.

Yes, better retained energy at range and better penetration re body armour, but is it enough of an advantage to justify the cartridge (remember all the wondrous claims made about the 5.56 when it was introduced.)

A decision to return to 7.62 NATO would mean easily produced ammo and numerous weapons systems to choose from, with the bonus that many of those systems would already be in service. Likewise a decision to go with something like 6.5 Creedmoor would mean an easily produced cartridge and any number of weapon systems that would only need minor works to suit.

Going to 6.8x51 means a whole new lot of manufacturing complications for ammunition, and only one platform (as yet) that can handle the round. All of this needing to happen across as many of the allied countries as possible.

I may end being on the wrong side of history, but I worry that our forces may be caught in a major conflict, with an unworkable mix of small arms/ammo, and a production capacity restricted to a small number of facilities tooled up and or capable, of producing the weapons and ammo.

 

[Flewis]

Sig Cross in 277 Fury was to be released in 2020 but SAAMI standardization was delayed due to covid closures. Since then it has taken Sig forever to get SAAMI on board and they won’t do a pre-saami release for liability reasons.

A small number of Sig Spear rifles in 277 Fury were released commercially. Not sure if any Cross/fury bolt guns are floating around the US or only overseas samples.

Sig’s first 277 Fury hunting option is below. None has left Sig yet, but you can order it, so I think the release is coming soon.

​

SIG H277SFAB15020​

Brand: SIG SAUER
UPC: 798681650378
Description: SIG AMMO 277 SIG FURY 150GR ACCUBOND HYBRID
MSRP: $79.95
Ammo Type: Rifle
Caliber: 277 FURY
Grain Weight: 150 gr
Qty Per Package: 20
Muzzle Velocity: [16in 2830] [24in 3120]
Muzzle Energy: [16in 2667] [24in 3242]

Ballistic Coefficient (G1): 0.500​

I did get a chance to handle the cross, very nice.