.223 with 60 Gr Rhino bullet on Impala or bigger?

Discussion in 'Up To .375' started by DLRX, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. DLRX

    DLRX AH Member

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    I would like to get opinions on the use of a 60 Gr .223 on Impala.
    I have a 7 year old Girl that shot her first Blesbuck using a 55 Gr TSX at 100M. I found that the bullet performer perfectly and wasnt recovered on a broadside shot. The buck went about 15 M and collapsed with a perfect heart shot. Next up is Impala later this month.
    The Rifle actually group - 5 shot 1/2" group @ 100M with 60 Gr Rhino bonded bullets and therefore switched from the Barnes to Rhino.
    To be ethical I would not use this combination on anything bigger than Impala/ Blesbuck yet.
    I believe with good shot placement the combination can bring down a Kudu?
    This can turn into an interesting discussion and I would always stick to " USE ENOUGH GUN"

    Pointers to take in consideration :

    1) This rifle is super accurate.
    2) The Groups are shot by an 7 year old.
    3) The 60 Gr bullet penetrate almost 20" of wet compressed paper.
    4)This girl continuously ring steel at 300m , shot for shot.
    PS: She has ambition to become a PH one day...
    Love to read the comments?
     
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  2. mdwest

    mdwest AH Elite

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    I cant see why a .223 with a well made bullet wouldnt work.. Impala arent big, thick, dense, or particularly tough.. if you put the bullet where it belongs, it should drop no differently than if you hit it with a .308 or a 375 H&H..

    Ive dropped several 200lb feral pigs and a few white tail doe with 223 over the years.. both are larger animals than a typical impala ram.. (although I typically use a 75gr bonded bullet in my .223 for pigs)..
     
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  3. Alexandro Faria

    Alexandro Faria AH Veteran

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    Doesn't matter how good of a shot you are, sh*t happens. The last thing you want is her to have a traumatic experience that could be avoided by using a bigger bang stick. Just now she hits bone and that bullet doesn't do enough... Also, what do we teach children if we aren't responsible when we hunt? Not having a go at you, but I'd argue that it's not responsible.

    If you want something with decent killing capability and mild recoil, look at a swede with 140-160gr projectiles. Throw a good suppressor on their and fit the stock to the little lady and you'll be cooking with gas... Just my 2c.

    She has her whole life to hunt big game, probably best to not rush it and possibly create a situation which puts her off hunting that can likely be avoided by using "enough gun".

    Congrats, btw
     
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  4. BenKK

    BenKK AH Fanatic

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    55 grain Barnes TSX from .22-250 is devastating on eating-sized buffalo (same body size as kudu). Go for it! Little cartridges can do more than most folks know, with sensible bullet / shot choice.
     

  5. K-man

    K-man AH Elite

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    I think the bullet/caliber combination is very adequate on impala. I would not take a .223 into Africa because I can't stop at just impala, and that's not enough gun for anything bigger or heavy boned. She should try a .243 or a nice .25 cal. until she can handle a bit more gun. Glad she is shooting well, keep it up!
     
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  6. Wyatt Smith

    Wyatt Smith AH Veteran

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    Ruger American 300 blackout is a great low recoil setup for 250 lbs animals. Low recoil, light weight, short barrel and it’s also threaded. With cup n core 165s you can shoot to 200 easy enough and they kill remarkably well. I am speculating but I think the 1-7 twist make the bullets expand better.
     

  7. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    DLRX I consider myself a fair to middling shot with a rifle. On my first trip to Africa I brought along one of my 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mausers. With my handloads I was getting 2775 FPS pushing a 140 Gr. Nosler Partition. I limited its' intended use to Impala, Blesbok and Warthog. For me to even think about taking a Kudu with that setup the shot opportunity would have to be perfect and the distance a max. of 100 yds. I'd consider the Swede with that round to be just about twice what you are proposing. In short I think the little girl would be far better served by a larger rifle if she intends to go after larger game.
     
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  8. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    Sounds like she is s great little shot so just make sure you have the impala positioned for a good shot placement for her and don't see a problem...my son when he was bout 8 shot his puku and lechwe with his .22 hornet ..both down with one shot....and when couple years older shot a waterbuck with his .223....not saying these are what people should use generally but they work when the bullet is put in the correct place....same as bigger bullets in the wrong place don't.....
     
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  9. Boela

    Boela AH Veteran

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    For those of you interested, there is quite a lot information available from the document as referred to below (P25, Chapter 4)
    I read through it and found it quite interesting.

    Please note: I am not pointing fingers to anyone.

    NOTICE 1614 OF 2009
    DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
    NATIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT: BIODIVERISTY ACT, 2004 (ACT NO. 10 OF 2004)
    DRAFT NORMS AND STANDARDS FOR THE REGULATION OF THE HUNTING INDUSTRY IN SOUTH
    AFRICA


    https://www.environment.gov.za/site...ces/nemba_huntingindustry_g32798gen1614_1.pdf
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2019

  10. Foxi

    Foxi AH Elite

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    (y) 1+
     

  11. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Elite

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    put a good 223 bullet in the brainpan and you will be surprised what you can take.
    miss the brainpan ( easy to do), and min calibres might be of more interest.
    bruce.
     

  12. DLRX

    DLRX AH Member

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    If you read this....legally one may only use a 6.5 CM or 6.5 Swede on animals sized Springbok and smaller....o_O
     
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  13. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    Couldn't open that attachment.... So that means .243 is illegal..... :rolleyes:
     

  14. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    From the attachment:

    Minimum calibers for rifle hunting
    CHAPTER4
    CATEGORIES OF HUNTING
    21. The following norms apply to minimum rifle calibers for the hunting of different categories of wild
    animals-
    ( a) .22 or 5.56mm rimfire rifle for the hunting of-
    (i) furred game up to and including the size of rock hyrax; and
    (ii) feathered game;
    (b) .22 or 5.56mm centre fire rifle for the hunting of furred game up to and including the size of
    springbok;
    (c) .270 or 7mm rifle for the hunting of-
    (i) furred game larger than springbuck, up to and including eland, but excluding dangerous
    game or giraffe; and
    (ii) ostrich; and
    (d) .375 H&H Magnum or larger caliber for the hunting of-
    (i) giraffe;
    (ii) dangerous game; and
    (iii) pachyderms, provided that the bullet must be of full metal jacket (solid) or monolithic solid
    construction.
     

  15. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    @Hogpatrol thanks for putting so I could read it...So. 22 rimfire is legal in S.A. for stuff....contradicts an earlier post.....and .223 legal for what is being talked about.....
     

  16. Hoss Delgado

    Hoss Delgado AH Fanatic

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    Let's break the question down into parts :
    1) Will a .223 kill Impala ?
    Without a Doubt. During my Granddad's Safari in 1968 , Kenya , a man was using a Pre 64 Winchester Model 70 in .220 Swift ( Firing 48 grain bullets ) to take Impala down. He was going for the neck shot and apparently had no problems. I am confident that Small Caliber Magnum cartridges like the .22 Winchester Rimfire Magnum ( I am just being hypothetical here ) or in the OP's case , a .223 would , for brain shots through the ear , prove quite satisfactory on Impala.
    2) Should l make a little girl do it , with a .223 ?
    Maybe you can , depending on how patient your daughter is , as a shooter , but this is is not something l would make a little girl do right now. These kind of shots require a lot of skill and experience. Hell , l turn 40 in 11 days , and even l don't go for these shots confidently ( My Dad and Granddad are a completely different matter , though :p ). I would recommend , getting your girl something that allows a slightly higher margin of error. I would recommend a .270 Winchester :)
    Before my son passed away , he had JUST started to learn using a .30-06. But from 9 to 12 , he was really fond of using a .270 Winchester which his mother and l got him , when we would go deer hunting .
    PS : Another reason why l Suggest the .270 Winchester is because , your little girl can keep using it , when she wants to bag something bigger than Impala :)
    Kids these days are fortunate that they are blessed with choice. I remember growing up in the '80s , l had to learn all my shooting with a .22 short , a .30-06 and a 12 gauge J Stevens side by side :(
     
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  17. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    IIRC, hunters were taking crossbows, many of which are compound construction.

    From the same attachment:

    Permissible bows for bow hunting
    26. The following are acceptable types of bows for bow hunting-
    ( a) longbow;
    (b) recurve bow; and
    (c) compound bow, excluding a compound crossbow.
     
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  18. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    DLRX, I'm having trouble deciding if you are being cute, or just stirring the pot? While I'll admit that a 223 pushing a 60 gr. pill is an excellent varmint cartridge, its' recommended use stops there. At least in my book. Culling via head and or brain shots might be a different story.
     
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  19. DLRX

    DLRX AH Member

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    Neither .....

    I am serious about the question also I wont ever take head shot's on Impala or any non dangerous game either ( as a hunter) The risk of wounding is HUGE..
     

  20. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    DLRX, I have QuickLoad on my computer. It has Rhino Bullets in its' index as well as Somchem and most other powders. If you will give the loads and barrel length of the rifle I'll run them through the program just to see what velocities and foot lbs. of energy you are getting.
     

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