100% Success Rate?

[Shooter375]

Humans naturally seek a 100% success rate. When does seeking a 100% success rate become unsporting? This question can go one hundred different ways. Some of which are:
- Should a hunter hone their skills, equipment, etc..., so that they expect 100% success?
- Should a hunter seek to improve their skills to the point that they can guarantee 100% success when they they go hunting, when they pull the trigger, etc...
- Should an outfitter/ph/hunter expect a 100% success rate on a package deal?
- Does high fence hunting guarantee a 100% success rate? If so, when?
- Could a hunter/PH's knowledge of their quarry and hunting area guarantee 100% success rate in a free range area?
Essentially when does seeking a 100% success rate become unsporting, and when/if should hunters limit themselves to make hunting sporting?

 

[Philip Glass]

Wow, there is a lot here. If a Hunter is in good shape, is very good with his rifle, has a good understanding of the area and animals he is hunting, and hunts with a top outfitter then there can be a near 100% chance of success. You notice I say near 100%. Nothing is 100%. I wish I could get the people who assume high fenced hunting is canned and therefore 100% to hunt with me either here in Texas or on my hunts to Africa. We would clear up that misunderstanding in a hurry. In my experience the fence discussions come from a place of complete ignorance.

 

[375er]

I think the question is what defines success? Pulling the trigger? A really good stalk? The overall experience? In todays world I think we have an obligation to be "sporting" and/or ethical at all times.

 

[Christian Davis]

There will always be uncertainty in hunting: nature, Mr. Murphy and human error will see to it!

If success is defined as at least one opportunity for an ethical shot at a representative trophy of a given species over the normal number of hunting days for the game and the area, then I feel like 100% success is a very reasonable target for an outfitter to aim for.

Also, it occurs to me that 100% "success" doesn't necessarily mean that a given task is easy. Take a cross country foot race for an example: it would not be unusual for 100% of the competitors to finish the race. That certainly doesn't mean the race was easy, nor does it mean that no one performed better than anyone else in completing the race.

 

[375Fox]

100% means a lot of things, you listed quite a few. Choosing the right area, right time of year, and giving yourself the right number of days to give yourself the highest chance of success are some more. Hunting behind a fence or free range are both equally sporting if managed on a sustainable quota. Guaranteeing (or believing) 100% success in a free range area is a mistake. I’ve had lions and poachers interrupt hunts and it’s beyond you or your PHs control. Water and food resources may place the game in a neighboring concession or national park. Your PH’s knowledge can only give you the best chance. I’ve had very difficult hunts in high fence areas. I was hunting for high 50s/potential of 60” kudu on one property but all nearly all kudu had moved to dense river valley for rut. We were completely unable to judge horn length. I shot a 49” kudu at 25 yards even though 60” kudu were there. In a free range area I would not call shooting the last animal present in a poached out area sporting no matter what method is used. In high fence, releasing a farm raised animals to be shot with no intention of creating self sustaining populations is equally or more unsporting to me no matter what hunting method is used. I’d say seeking 100% success when no money is going back into conservation is unsporting.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Wow, there is a lot here. If a Hunter is in good shape, is very good with his rifle, has a good understanding of the area and animals he is hunting, and hunts with a top outfitter then there can be a near 100% chance of success. You notice I say near 100%. Nothing is 100%. I wish I could get the people who assume high fenced hunting is canned and therefore 100% to hunt with me either here in Texas or on my hunts to Africa. We would clear up that misunderstanding in a hurry. In my experience the fence discussions come from a place of complete ignorance.

I must say I believe Phillip has summed it up perfectly.
IMO if the outcome is predetermined like some shoots in SA it becomes unsporting and unacceptable no matter the perceived risk.

Knowledge, gear, skill set can only get you so far.
The question I’d like to table is,

Would we be passionate about hunting high fenced or Wilderness areas if the outcome was a guarantee?
Based on one’s answer to this question it places you in the true hunter outdoor adventurer or Killer bracket.
The latter (Killer) in my opinion being a stepping stone or growth phase on route to becoming a true hunter/outdoor adventurer…

I for one do not believe that it is a realistic expectation to be 100% all the time. Near 100% virtually flawless yes why not!!

My very best!

 

[Manny R]

A lot to digest; but here is my 2 cents.
There is nothing 100% as per Murphy's Law. To improve ones odds there are things you can do:
1.Listen to your Guide or PH. There is nothing wrong about giving your opinion but the final results rest with your PH.
2.Stay Positive (How many times on the last day of your hunt your had success?)
3. Remember nothing is guaranteed. Enjoy the adventure.
4. Get in shape for the hunt. If you can't get in good shape let your Guide know before the hunt so he has different options. Let him know your physical limitations
5. Know your gun and practice and practice. I do not mean to practice on a shooting bench.
A lot of times when you are hunting fence area the only time you see a fence is when you enter the property. The mature animals are smarter than one thinks. they know where to hide and when to come out.

 

[Andrew62]

Wow, there is a lot here. If a Hunter is in good shape, is very good with his rifle, has a good understanding of the area and animals he is hunting, and hunts with a top outfitter then there can be a near 100% chance of success. You notice I say near 100%. Nothing is 100%. I wish I could get the people who assume high fenced hunting is canned and therefore 100% to hunt with me either here in Texas or on my hunts to Africa. We would clear up that misunderstanding in a hurry. In my experience the fence discussions come from a place of complete ignorance.

I was hunting zebra in SA 2 years ago, saw zebra tracks every day, never once saw a zebra in 7 days, so yes, those who feel 'fenced' hunts are not true hunts, simply haven't been there.

 

[375Fox]

I was hunting zebra in SA 2 years ago, saw zebra tracks every day, never once saw a zebra in 7 days, so yes, those who feel 'fenced' hunts are not true hunts, simply haven't been there.

There are fenced areas where you’d see zebras daily at the feed trough as well. It depends how area is managed. There are great fenced areas, terrible ones, and a lot in between.

 

[WAB]

100% seems to be a uniquely American phenomenon. In a related area, I shot in international shotgun games for a number of years. The US has historically struggled in the international games, and I believe it’s due to how we dumb down our shotgun sports to allow more shooters to shoot a perfect score. Look at skeet, trap, sporting clays in the US and compare them to their international counterparts. It’s absolutely ridiculous and results in a lot of shooters who never learn proper technique.

The same seems to apply to hunting. I will never understand people who approach hunting like they are going shopping and expect a 100% certainty that they will fill the order.

 

[Dudders]

The area I stalk here in the U.K would be classed as wild and free range i have put down for comparison what i did in February
In 12 stalks morning or evening of 2 to 3 hours each, I saw deer on each outing
of these I was sucessful on 9 occasions with a total of 12 deer taken.

 

[mark-hunter]

Humans naturally seek a 100% success rate. When does seeking a 100% success rate become unsporting? This question can go one hundred different ways. Some of which are:
- Should a hunter hone their skills, equipment, etc..., so that they expect 100% success?
- Should a hunter seek to improve their skills to the point that they can guarantee 100% success when they they go hunting, when they pull the trigger, etc...
- Should an outfitter/ph/hunter expect a 100% success rate on a package deal?
- Does high fence hunting guarantee a 100% success rate? If so, when?
- Could a hunter/PH's knowledge of their quarry and hunting area guarantee 100% success rate in a free range area?
Essentially when does seeking a 100% success rate become unsporting, and when/if should hunters limit themselves to make hunting sporting?

In my personal view, one thing is omitted in this approach.

The time! How much time, you can invest in a specific hunt for specific animal?

If you live there, in Namibia, or South Africa, or Zimbabwe, and you want kudu.
If you don't get it this week, you can get it next week, or week after that, or three months later. You have entire year for that, and then, next year.
But eventually you will get that kudu, if you keep trying, its just a matter of time.

If you visit the country, for 10 days, and you want that same kudu, how much disappointed you will be if you don't get it? And you have only 10 days? When is next chance?

So 100% expectation is not the same for everybody.

And then, there are other considerations:
You are visiting Africa, first time, and you have bucket list, and that kudu on the list.
You dont get it first time. How disappointed you will be? Its personal and individual. Do you want 100% that badly?

Next option, you are visiting Africa 10th time, you want that kudu, but you already have 2 kudus mounted at home. And if you dont get it this time? Will you be disappointed? is 100% necessary?

Soo all your questions must be looked from perspective of already gained experience and time available or already time spent on the ground.

When looking from that perspective.:
Many outfitters I think have considered this matter.
And so, you have so called "beginners packages", "first timers packages" etc... those are packages that are most likely to be accomplished, and will result in happy clients. Because there arfe plenty of some animal species around, so chances are high.

As hunters (clients) get more experience, and collect more time on the ground, they look differently at this, and if they can afford, with experience, they go for more challenging hunts.
Bongo. Mountain nyala. Leopard. Zebra duiker. Damara dik dik. Lord derby eland. etc etc

Seasoned hunters go specifically for something that is not readily available, and will be challenging to find, or get a shot at. And they know, maybe they will not succeed. Thos are 50-50% chances at best
And, of course, these hunts are usually not guaranteed.

So, 100% success rate is badly expected with younger hunters, first timers, and less experienced.
Less then 100% is acceptable for experienced hunters.

If I go to Africa: success for me means - chance for a shot and quality time on the ground. (and / or of course, getting the animal, and be ready to compromise with something else if possible)

If i go hunting around my place: success means: to see animals around, chance of a shot to specific animal, quality time on the ground. If I dont get it, I will try tommorow. At my place, I have time.

My local hunting at my place is average 5 outings for one successful big game hunt with animal bagged.
In Africa, I am ready to compromise, to take something else available, if my bucket animal is not.

 

[Tanks]

...

The same seems to apply to hunting. I will never understand people who approach hunting like they are going shopping and expect a 100% certainty that they will fill the order.

When most RSA hunts are advertised as "come shoot X animals in Y days" then people's expectations go high to 100% certainty.

You can find many examples of those types of advertisements on this very site.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

When most RSA hunts are advertised as "come shoot X animals in Y days" then people's expectations go high to 100% certainty.

You can find many examples of those types of advertisements on this very site.

This goes for every single country. 1.)14 day leopard hunt Zim.
2.)Buff/Leopard combo Tanzania
3.)Lechwe hunting Zambia
So not quite sure that it is an expectation created by the SA and Namibia industry alone.

it can be applied to any African advertisers and any North American.
I would agree whole heartedly with your statement if the advertiser stated animals to be collected is a 100% guaranteed.

I say again one question should be tabled:
Would we be as passionate about hunting if the outcome was a guarantee?
Based on your answer it places you the actual hunter in two different brackets.
1.)An avid hunter adventurer
Or
2.)A killer (a mere stepping stone on route to number 1.)
My best always

 

[Alistair]

Humans naturally seek a 100% success rate. When does seeking a 100% success rate become unsporting? This question can go one hundred different ways. Some of which are:
- Should a hunter hone their skills, equipment, etc..., so that they expect 100% success?
- Should a hunter seek to improve their skills to the point that they can guarantee 100% success when they they go hunting, when they pull the trigger, etc...
- Should an outfitter/ph/hunter expect a 100% success rate on a package deal?
- Does high fence hunting guarantee a 100% success rate? If so, when?
- Could a hunter/PH's knowledge of their quarry and hunting area guarantee 100% success rate in a free range area?
Essentially when does seeking a 100% success rate become unsporting, and when/if should hunters limit themselves to make hunting sporting?

Humans do seek a 100% success rate, but you never actually achieve it. That's why the journey is so compelling.

I think a hunter should do everything in their power to maximize their odds, improve their skills, but that they should do so in the certain knowledge that nothing is guaranteed and that there are factors outside of our control that might lead to failure. If it was 100% guaranteed, hunting wouldn't really be hunting, and also wouldn't be particularly fun.

I think outfitters and PHs should do the same, but again, a client must accept that it isn't guarantee and be skeptical towards any such claim being made.

As for the 'sporting' thing, part of the enjoyment for me is the element of inherent randomness, of 'luck'. I tend to pick hunting excursions that find the correct balance between so unlikely that it's disheartening, and so likely, that it's not exciting when you 'win'.

As an example, this is why I enjoy little walked up days on pheasant more than big bag driven days. On a big bag day you'll almost certainly shoot some pheasants, but I find I get a lot more out of shooting one on a day where you might only get 1 or 2 chances, and there's a non-trivial likelihood that you might go home with nothing at all.

 

[375Fox]

100% seems to be a uniquely American phenomenon. In a related area, I shot in international shotgun games for a number of years. The US has historically struggled in the international games, and I believe it’s due to how we dumb down our shotgun sports to allow more shooters to shoot a perfect score. Look at skeet, trap, sporting clays in the US and compare them to their international counterparts. It’s absolutely ridiculous and results in a lot of shooters who never learn proper technique.

The same seems to apply to hunting. I will never understand people who approach hunting like they are going shopping and expect a 100% certainty that they will fill the order.

I agree with your comment. What’s most interesting to me about your comment is North America has the lowest success rates on hunts and probably widest success range too. Getting a trophy northern whitetail I’d put at 50-75%, elk 60-90%, moose 70-90%, brown bear 50-90% success, lots of other examples and ranges depending on area. I’m not sure why African hunts need to have such high success rates when people readily spend their money on hunts without such high success here.

 

[R.M.C.]

When most RSA hunts are advertised as "come shoot X animals in Y days" then people's expectations go high to 100% certainty.

You can find many examples of those types of advertisements on this very site.

Aren't basically all hunt packages a set number of days for a set animal/animals?

 

[WAB]

Aren't basically all hunt packages a set number of days for a set animal/animals?

Fair point. I typically am on tracking hunts for buffalo, eland or elephant. So for me, it’s a set number of days for one animal plus whatever else the bush provides.

 

[mark-hunter]

This, what many of us where describing in our words, is also defined in some hunters education programs.
100% must, is part of psychology of beginner.

So less then 100% kill success means evolution of individual hunters personality, that grows with time and experience.

My comments are below italic in brackets. the rest is qouted. Will put a link below for the source, but similar descriptions can be found elsewhere with different schools.

• The five stages of hunter development are:
  • Shooting Stage
  • Limiting-Out Stage
  • Trophy Stage
  • Method Stage
  • Sportsman Stage

Shooting stage: (shoot anything)
The priority is getting off a shot, rather than patiently waiting for a good shot. This eagerness to shoot can lead to bad decisions that endanger others. A combination of target practice and mentoring helps most hunters move quickly out of this stage.

Limiting out stage (fill up legal limit, is must)
Success is determined by bagging the limit. In extreme cases, this need to limit out also can cause hunters to take unsafe shots. Spending time with more mature hunters helps people grow out of this phase.

(first two phases can also be typical for many hunters first time visiting Africa. they want all and want it now)

Trophy stage - selective hunter
The hunter is selective and judges success by quality rather than quantity. Typically, the focus is on big game. Anything that doesn’t measure up to the desired trophy is ignored.

(after first few "begginers safaris, somebody wants at least minimum non fenced 45 inch buffalo? or free roaming leopard? or 60 inch kudu? this is not 100% guaranteed hunt)

Method stage - success is hunting by choosing a method. How?
In this stage, the process of hunting becomes the focus. A hunter may still want to limit out but places a higher priority on how it’s accomplished.

(ethical hunt, stalking, tracking, exclusively by bow, specific animal? not guaranteed)

Sportsman stage
Success is measured by the total experience—the appreciation of the out-of-doors and the animal being hunted, the process of the hunt, and the companionship of other hunters.
(enjoying the time on African hunting fields, taking what Africa offers, cultural experiences etc)

Final stage: work in the community, mentoring, and returning to nature and to community
Part of the process of becoming a true, responsible sportsman is becoming involved in efforts to make hunting a respected sport.

(take a friend hunting with you, let him shoot first, tell him about hunting, mentor him)

• That includes teaching proper knowledge and skills to others, working with landowners, and cooperating with wildlife officials.
• It also includes joining conservation organizations dedicated to improving habitat and management efforts. Young hunters can be involved by joining organizations such as 4-H, Boy Scouts, and Girl Scouts, as well as by participating in wildlife projects in their local communities.
• Responsible, ethical behavior and personal involvement are both essential to the survival of hunting. How you behave and how other people see you will determine whether hunting will continue as a sport.

source...

Becoming a True Sportsman

www.hunter-ed.com

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

This, what many of us where describing in our words, is also defined in some hunters education programs.
100% must, is part of psychology of beginner.

So less then 100% kill success means evolution of individual hunters personality, that grows with time and experience.

My comments are below italic in brackets. the rest is qouted. Will put a link below for the source, but similar descriptions can be found elsewhere with different schools.

• The five stages of hunter development are:
  • Shooting Stage
  • Limiting-Out Stage
  • Trophy Stage
  • Method Stage
  • Sportsman Stage

Shooting stage: (shoot anything)
The priority is getting off a shot, rather than patiently waiting for a good shot. This eagerness to shoot can lead to bad decisions that endanger others. A combination of target practice and mentoring helps most hunters move quickly out of this stage.

Limiting out stage (fill up legal limit, is must)
Success is determined by bagging the limit. In extreme cases, this need to limit out also can cause hunters to take unsafe shots. Spending time with more mature hunters helps people grow out of this phase.

(first two phases can also be typical for many hunters first time visiting Africa. they want all and want it now)

Trophy stage - selective hunter
The hunter is selective and judges success by quality rather than quantity. Typically, the focus is on big game. Anything that doesn’t measure up to the desired trophy is ignored.

(after first few "begginers safaris, somebody wants at least minimum non fenced 45 inch buffalo? or free roaming leopard? or 60 inch kudu? this is not 100% guaranteed hunt)

Method stage - success is hunting by choosing a method. How?
In this stage, the process of hunting becomes the focus. A hunter may still want to limit out but places a higher priority on how it’s accomplished.

(ethical hunt, stalking, tracking, exclusively by bow, specific animal? not guaranteed)

Sportsman stage
Success is measured by the total experience—the appreciation of the out-of-doors and the animal being hunted, the process of the hunt, and the companionship of other hunters.
(enjoying the time on African hunting fields, taking what Africa offers, cultural experiences etc)

Final stage: work in the community, mentoring, and returning to nature and to community
Part of the process of becoming a true, responsible sportsman is becoming involved in efforts to make hunting a respected sport.

(take a friend hunting with you, let him shoot first, tell him about hunting, mentor him)

• That includes teaching proper knowledge and skills to others, working with landowners, and cooperating with wildlife officials.
• It also includes joining conservation organizations dedicated to improving habitat and management efforts. Young hunters can be involved by joining organizations such as 4-H, Boy Scouts, and Girl Scouts, as well as by participating in wildlife projects in their local communities.
• Responsible, ethical behavior and personal involvement are both essential to the survival of hunting. How you behave and how other people see you will determine whether hunting will continue as a sport.

source...

Becoming a True Sportsman

www.hunter-ed.com

100% spot on! just said so much better than I ever could!
Best Always