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160 gn swift would do it. bruce.

oelof, we would need to know the specifics of your tests to understand how hydro leaves a wider wound channel than a swift. certainly one would expect a longer deeper wound, but diameter of wound could be a different thing. in my mind the two bullets are meant for different things. bruce.

but it is a really good question. bruce.

or a 9.3x64. bruce.

i do want to get those cases. nothing as good as rws brass, and that includes lapua. if you want to go cheaper neck 338 up to 9.3 and you have arrived. actually ceh is in a good position. he might have a fair bit of 338 brass that would suit reforming. bruce.

but the 9.3x64 is a rung up the ladder again. bruce.

bob, riverbrand made their own. their 308 and 303 150 gns were the same bullet! i used to visit the factory to buy stuff. bruce.

i was talking about the 9.3x64. similar case capacity to the 358 norma, but with a 9.3 bullet. the 358 norma necked up to 9.3 would be a twin sibling. bruce. bruce.

nothing like having a sighter. bruce.

why? bruce.

bob, it went through 2 barrels, mostly on goats, some on donkeys, varmints, and deer, and a few pigs. bruce.

here in oz, at the end of the 303/25 era, the 222 was probably the main cartridge that took its place. some guys that wanted bigger went for 243 win. a lot of the 222 guys went up a notch and got a 243 after trying to exceed the poor little 222s capability. some just kept using it happily on...

the forest service guys seemed to like the 222 for red deer. not sure why. maybe easier to carry more ammo, easier to shoot, were good enough shots, would not shoot unless sure.???? bruce.

yes you can read the wind with a kestrel at the shooting point, high, low, and average. but you cant tell what is going on down range. on the range flags often point in different directions and lift to different angles. and they cannot tell you what to do with mirage. for long range i prefer to...

here is a good way to come to grips with spindrift. you need to have spindrift switched on on you calculator. then run a calculation out to the max range you shoot with a wind speed of zero. the windage figures that show up are pure spindrift. jbm shows it in both inches and moa, which tells you...

one can only surmise, but there is a high probability that jack, elmer, and bob would all agree on one thing. if the 280 rem was around in those days it would have got the common nod. bruce.

pheroze, if your primer pockets prove to be tight when you reload the cases, then the problem of peak pressure is not an issue case wise. should primers be loose after about 3 reloads the load is too hot. however you still have a cratering issue which would be fixed by having a competent...

but then jack did not mind the 257 roberts! bruce.

why not go one better and do a 9.3x64.? it is everything the 358 norma is and more. bruce.

ses, he can't be elmer because he also uses a 25. elmer would have rated that about where bob rates the 243. bruce.

i used to do box shooting with 3 shot groups doing 4 groups, then a 5th back on the original target. however nightforce is in my capital city, adelaide, and i can take my scope there to be tested. if it is working ok i do not worry now. i did have a doubt once, and sent the scope to nightforce...

bob, you know i don't wear a tutu, but rather a mankini. bruce.

i would almost guess that in the 50s the 303 would have been popular. i remember reading in the 60s and 70s how popular the 222 rem was, particularly with the forest service cullers. bruce.

another consideration. the target goes where the mirage goes, and sometimes you cannot see mirage as in cloudy conditions. in a head or tal wind, the target will appear to the shooter to be higher than it is. by how much is pretty much a guessing game, but it can be 1, or in extreme case 2 moa...

here is the question. given a rh twist barrel, you have to add spindrift (drift) to deflection, in a wind from the left. and subtract drift from deflection in a right hand wind. at what distance does that become significant.? of course in a right wind, drift will be your friend if you do not...

as an aside, if you go from the southern to the northern hemisphere coriolus and some other force that i forget the name of DO seriously need to be taken into account as range increases. bruce.

i personally do not worry about coriolus because as you say it is probably not too much of a deal, but also it just gets too hard. spindrift on the other hand can be quite significant. the figures i just gave were with spindrift turned on, and give a good indication of differences. spindrift...

yancy, you are correct it is direction dependent. here are some jbm calculations. 1mph from 90 degrees. 11.8" deflection = 1.1 moa. 270 degrees. 0.2" deflection = 0 moa. 10 mph from 90 degrees. 64" deflection = 6.1 moa. 270 degrees. 52" deflection = 5.0...

you are right. i just did the calculation for 10 mph and it agrees with you. either jbm has a problem, or there is something taken into account there. spindrift is about 0.6 moa so possibly that was taken into account. when time permits i will have to burrow into this. bruce.

6 moa at 1000 yds is 60" = 5 feet. a clean miss and lucky for the animal. i took my number from j b m ballistic calculations. somewhere our calculations do not agree. possibly i have miscalculated. your numbers would suggest 0.5 to 0.6 moa per 1 mph wind, which is about half what i suggested. bruce.

the true number in the calculation is 11.8", which is close to 12" in the real world. and that is 1000 yds, not a mile. bruce.

it was probably bob o'connor. sir robert de whelen would never lower himself to the level of a serf. bruce.

ses, the argument becomes mute when you introduce the 9.3x64 into the discussion. bruce.

does that mean you will eat someone else's lunch.? bruce.

i don't know bob. the gun world is a small place, and the rumour is that you are still a bit of a wily old fox. maybe the trapline got a bit shorter, but you can still do all the traps in the line. bruce.

bob, re15 can peak out very suddenly, going from what appears to be quite safe to an overload with little increase in charge at the top end. that hot load that appeared safe in testing could well blow a primer as the weather warms up. alliant might well have discovered this and adopted a...

excellent post bob. bruce.

shit bob you look older than that. must be all the drinking, smoking and womanizing. bruce.

fclass and benchrest guys are now full length resizing and getting accuracy. that aside, there are priorities with ammunition. the first is that is is safe, the second is that it functions in the firearm. for hunting, probably the 3rd is that the bullet suits the game at striking velocity. which...

yes they are different cartridges, and std loads cannot be compared. but hathcock was using national match ammo which was loaded to velocities not much higher than 30/30. bruce.

len was known as the "doyen of deerhunters". he thought the 243 cal was good for him, but other hunters needed a bigger calibre? i think his bike was a postman's bike slightly modified. that was back in the day when deer whereabouts were a dark secret, privy to a select few. bruce.

c e h, of you order your whelen dies now, they might come by the time you decide to get the rifle to suit. bruce.

chago, i am not putting hate on guys, but rather describing what i have seen on paper targets. this is from 300 0ut to 1200 yds. i used a 30 cal 200 gn bullet with a g1 b.c of 0.65. and a mv of 3000 fps. only really specialized guys will better that. i don't think hascock shot too much at 2,500...

not quite the case bob. i use sierra, nosler partition, and other bullets where they are best for the job. however, swifts shine a brighter light in certain circumstances. if you could afford them they would be the best all round hunting bullet available, but sometimes a humble speer is just as...

fwb, these companies pretend very effectively that their main purpose is to supply us with what we want and need to make us happy. in reality they just wat to screw us for any penny they can get, and the more they can fool us the better. gun makers, scope makers et al are the same. one reason i...

how does it group and regulate? bruce.

hornady bullets went up bigtime in price when they changed plastic tips. call me sceptical, but i suspect they found a cheaper source and tried to value add. this suspicion is made stronger by the fact they have now brought back the old original amax metal tips in match bullets. other companies...

here is a challenge. can anyone here shoot 20 shots in one day into a 10" circle at whatever range you nominate. then repeat that 5 more days, not necessarily consecutive. not consecutive because the challenge allows for shooting in mild conditions. for every shot out of the circle you will take...

chago, i meant to be more than fair and understate the issues. with goof b.c bullets at good speeds, you will get about 12" wind deflection at 1000 yds per mile per hour of full value wind. this is 24" for 2 mph. you might detect a windspeed at the shooting point with a machine at the firing...

it is not hard to get loads whereby a 300 gn bullet is dead on at 100, and a 270 at the same sight setting will be dead on at 200. this can work well. 300 swift will outperform 300 partition to the extent it can be like using 2 different rifles. bruce.