Through or against the other side of the skin, what are your thoughts

Jörg Krüger said:

Thank you for your reply @JimP . I only hunt with my 308 Norma Magnum. On Gemsbok size game from anything from 100 - 350 meters I never had a through.(2950fps) The bullets I shoot are Sierra game kings 180gn. Might have something to do with it???

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My hunting buddy and his son have used the 165gr Sierra BTs exclusively in their .30-06 BLRs for many years on pronghorn, deer, elk and one moose. They are a great bullet for the deer and pronghorn, but have required several (four) body shots on a cow moose at 25 yds. and three body shots each on two small bull elk, one at 50yds. and one at 75yds. All of the animals shot (lung/heart) more than once were dead, but didn't know it. No bullets were pass throughs and they tend to penetrate a short distance and then "blow up" inside the animal, causing massive trauma. No recovered bullets intact, only pieces, even on deer and pronghorn. Until you get into the .338 caliber, the Sierras have a thinner jacket and on "thicker" game, it's been their/mine observations of the above few small samples of the Sierra performance with that specific bullet in "mostly" federal factory (but some reloads) .30-06 cartridges. Despite my suggestions many, many times to go with a thicker jacketed bullet for elk/moose, they're stubborn and won't do it. His son did buy a Browning A Bolt though .338WM after they BOTH used my "back up" .338WM rifle they took with them and killed ALL their game (2 moose, 1 caribou, 1 black bear) in Newfoundland a couple of years ago. But, guess which rifle he hunted elk (unsuccessfully) with last year? His .30-06 with those same Sierra bullets! Sometimes you just can't change s****d?

Boyd Brooks said:

I'm a fan of one shot one kill! I have only recovered one bullet from a cow moose in North America and 3 bullets from game in Africa.

Oh yes most definitely. The 3 animals that the bullets were recovered from were, a zebra a warthog and an impala and no shot over 50 yards. The rifle was a 30-06 with 180 gr soft points! Surprised me, especially the impala.

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Just curious as to what brand of soft points?

I prefer two holes myself. I kinda like big exit wounds for blood trailing and they seem to give up quicker if there's a gaping hole in them. Hard to keep blood pressure in those conditions lol

Hi Jim,

I am not talking about "crossing my fingers and hoping..."! It is a decision to not shoot an animal inside a herd with a bullet that probably will pass through! If I were to hunt herd animals, I would use a very good bullet designed to not pass and wound another animal. Probably a Swift one.

Clodo Ferreira said:

Hi Jim,

I am not talking about "crossing my fingers and hoping..."! It is a decision to not shoot an animal inside a herd with a bullet that probably will pass through! If I were to hunt herd animals, I would use a very good bullet designed to not pass and wound another animal. Probably a Swift one.

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That's what I mean, you never know if that bullet is going to pass through a animal or not. In my years of hunting I shot a lot of cup and core bullets and even those had pass through on North American game animal up to elk.

I now shoot Barnes TTSX bullets and need to pay attention to the animal that I am shooting at to avoid the second animal since I am 90% sure that they will pass through whatever I shoot with them.

I used 7RM Barnes 160gr TSX on pg on my first two safaris. I took zebra, waterbuck, nyala, impala, gemsbok, springbok, and blesbok. All through and through one shot kills, except the waterbuck, from 75 to 235 yds. The recovered slug weighed 160.3 gr with a perfect 4 petal mushroom. I collected my buf and sable with Barnes 350 gr Barnes TSX, both pass through one shot kills. All but my eland went no more than 100 yds and we found them dead. The eland took a chest shot and went about half a mile with a Barnes 350 gr TSX. He was down when we found him and another round finished it. Not much blood trail on any of them but tracking was easy.

Jörg Krüger said:

Thank you for your reply @JimP . I only hunt with my 308 Norma Magnum. On Gemsbok size game from anything from 100 - 350 meters I never had a through.(2950fps) The bullets I shoot are Sierra game kings 180gn. Might have something to do with it???

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There is nothing wrong with your rifle or ammo but there are just better choices IMO. Are you wishing for more pass throughs?
I’ve had more pass throughs than bullets under the skin. I do think it’s cool to just easily be able to cut them out though. Then you can see how your bullet performed!

Agree, Jim!

I am a big Barnes bullet fan. Most of my kills on African plains game, red deer, whitetail and feral pigs are complete pass throughs regardless of the angle of the animal. When it comes to kill shots, animals fail to understand ballistics and bullet energies so how they react can vary. I have had animals drop dead at the shot and I have had them run with destroyed lungs and a hole in the heart. Other than death, how the animal and bullet react are often very different.

I killed 2 deer this past season at almost the same distance; shot broadside in the shoulder; bullet completely passed through and both reacted very differently. I killed a big, old, 8 point at about 50 yards with a .243 using Barnes factory 80gr TTSX. He did the double leg mule kick and collapsed about 10 feet from where he was shot. I was admiring him and planning my path to drag him up the hill when I notice a big doe nosing around. She kept circling around watching me drag the buck. When I got to the top, there she is standing in the middle of the trail looking at me. I thought, this is perfect; no dragging this one out as she is on the trail. I shot her and she took off at a dead run and I found her about 100 yards down the hill. Not much of a blood trail but easy to find. The buck had a complete pass through with a hole in the heart (and dropped quickly). The doe had a complete pass through, hole in the heart with lungs turned to jelly (showed little reaction to the shot and ran 100 yards).

I was using the Remington .243 for nostalgia. I bought it with my own money when I was a kid and used it to kill my first deer. I prefer to always use the best bullet/cartridge combination that can reach vitals under less than ideal conditions and no matter how the animal is standing. I consider a .243 minimal for that but it is on our deer lease (so I can wait for the perfect shot) and I know the Barnes bullets are up to the test.

I love these threads. Most shooters have strong opinions based upon their own, albeit anecdotal, data. For those wanting to learn a bit more about energy transfer and the work done by that energy, I recommend reading Rathcoombe's post. There are a couple of conceptual errors based upon limited experience, but the scientific data is spot on. It would be best to have a high school level of physics before reading. IMO most of the literature, including reloading manuals, have some basic errors above simple errata.....based upon a failure to understand freshman level classical mechanics........but personal experience cannot be invalidated by science.............and I have seen things happen during a lifetime of shooting, research and teaching that are absolutely impossible...............thanks for posting....................FWB

Philip Glass said:

There is nothing wrong with your rifle or ammo but there are just better choices IMO. Are you wishing for more pass throughs?
I’ve had more pass throughs than bullets under the skin. I do think it’s cool to just easily be able to cut them out though. Then you can see how your bullet performed!

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I love my combo of my caliber and bullets. I am very happy not to have pass throughs. I know the Sierra's tend to break up a bit inside but it is my belief that this will cause further trauma in the critter which will speed up the kill. It does cause a bit more meat damage at certain angles, but I am ok with that. I will gladly loose 1 or 2 kg of meat if it puts the critter down quickly. That is just me anyway

Personally, I prefer to have a big hole on the off side dumping blood. But I am admittedly a poor tracker.
Nowadays I shoot for bone.

Thank you all for your input so far . Now let's hear from the PH's

This is one of the oldest and endless debates.

There is no scientific explanation about energy transfer in terminal ballistic, on game.

However, most of us will agree that if the bullet stays inside the animal - then the energy is transfered 100%.

So what?

There is a lot being said about terminal ballistic, without final conclusion.

So, we can all also agree - not every bullet is lethal - due to variety of reasons. (unfortunately)
Once, when this happens, wounding the game, our only option is to track on blood spoor.
We will all agree on that, again, shall we?

In that case, bullet that passes through will have better blood spoor from entry and exit wound then the one with entry wound only.
I am sure we will all agree on that as well.

Special cases of hunt is when the animals are in herds, and in that particular case it is better that bullet does not pass through, to prevent wounding of other animals in the goup..
In that case, only, I would preffer bullet to stay below the skin, on opposite side.

And in regular situations, pass through is my preference.

Jörg Krüger said:

Good day all members.
I would love to hear your opinions regarding the pros and cons of bullets that pass through completely on an animal vs an bullet that is found on the opposite side against the skin.
The animals I am talking about would be Gemsbok size game and the shot a broadside shot. Could also include smaller or larger game if you so desire to comment.
I am in the belief that a bullet that got to the other side of the skin and stopped there, put all its energy into the buck, which I would think is the best, but you might have less of an blood trail if the critter runs a bit.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.

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@Jorg Kruger
I personally like a hole in each side on a broadside shot. The animal is able to get less air in as more blood leaks,out. The few fpe I lose doesn't worry me if the projectiles have done the job properly.
Just my 2 cents.
Bob

Jörg Krüger said:

As per @Ike85123 a proper 1 shot gets even a Cape Buff down on its knees
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@Jorg Kruger
Some one grabbing you on the b all's puts you down pretty quick as well by the looks of it.
Bob.

For the hunting I do in the USA, I prefer two holes from a bullet that expands well on broadside shots. Then I have confidence in it’s penetration on slightly quartering shots or if I hit a large bone. At times I have to wait for an animal to clear, and that’s OK too. I’d still wait for my animal to clear even if shooting a bullet designed not to exit, just in case. So hopefully I have a bullet that will work well when things are not perfect. I lean towards high SD bonded and/or partitioned bullets or a more moderate weight for caliber mono, like the Barnes LRX.