Deposits

I totally agree BB...we get hosed on these wire transfers, and sit in the bank forever while they attempt to figure everything out, and then charge through the nose to do it...
There needs to be a better way...we need PayPal in Africa...LOL

I can see this thread created interest for everyone! The booking agent and I have come to an arrangement that is good for both. $1000 up front, to hold the date, because there is intense interest in this hunting property. Then the additional amount to equal 50% 90 days out. I have the option of paying the additional 50% before I leave, putting it in escrow with the booking agent, so that I don't have to carry cash over with me, because this landowner/outfitter doesn't accept credit cards. All is good.

My first two hunts in SA, last year, I was not even asked for a deposit of any kind, or any upfront payment whatsoever. I paid at the end of the hunt what was owed and that was that.
This years hunt my PH is asking for $1000 to book the date, and the rest after the hunt is completed. I am happy.

A year and a half ago I hunted with Jacques at Hartzview Safaris. I was able to make a payment to him via Paypal with no problem. Took only seconds to do and was confirmed almost instantly. If I remember there was a charge of 1-2%. This was very easy. Previously I had my bank try to wire him the money and somehow it got screwed up. Took 2 months to get that money back from the bank. Paypal is the way to go.

Bearhunter said:

A year and a half ago I hunted with Jacques at Hartzview Safaris. I was able to make a payment to him via Paypal with no problem. Took only seconds to do and was confirmed almost instantly. If I remember there was a charge of 1-2%. This was very easy. Previously I had my bank try to wire him the money and somehow it got screwed up. Took 2 months to get that money back from the bank. Paypal is the way to go.

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I'll have a look at Paypal. Never thought of them.
Thx.

No ZAR but you can send major currency.
Luckily, FNB in RSA now allows Paypal linkage to their bank accounts and they convert to Rand.
We might have a solution if the Outfitter is willing to sign up.

I have done Paypal with some wire transfers to my outfitter in Japan. The rates were so high that it wasn't worth it in the end. If paypal reduced their fees it would be fine but at 3.9% if it's any significant sum of money it becomes impractical and too expensive. My outfitter even "refunded" the money back to my account and then had me wire it because he was getting dinged for fees on each end, paypal and his bank.

TOM said:

I have done Paypal with some wire transfers to my outfitter in Japan. The rates were so high that it wasn't worth it in the end. If paypal reduced their fees it would be fine but at 3.9% if it's any significant sum of money it becomes impractical and too expensive. My outfitter even "refunded" the money back to my account and then had me wire it because he was getting dinged for fees on each end, paypal and his bank.

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Fair warning given. Small amounts only.
Thanks.

BRICKBURN said:

I'll have a look at Paypal. Never thought of them.
Thx.

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2 years ago I tried to use paypal and despite their claims that all would go well, it didn't. They would not approve the transaction and directed me to a mailbox where I could leave a message and I would receive a reply within 24hrs. This resulted in a day of fighting with SA banks to do a transfer, finally culminating with a bag of cash, a PH wishing he didn't have his cash in a sack (although he didn't say anything, Im sure he was worried) and a mad dash to the airport instead of a nice relaxing day and the baby animal petting café Christine wanted to visit so badly.

Paypal is no pal of mine. If you choose to use them make sure you have a backup plan.

I have used Paypal a lot and have so far not had any problems at all.
But I have only used it for amounts lower than $500.
For higher amounts that I want to be payed into a bank account, I just transfer the money from my account by using internet banking and the fees here in Norway are low for doing that.

BRICKBURN said:

Questions:
Have any of you used this type of service with an outfitter?
Outfitters, have you used this kind of service?
Do you have one you would suggest?

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We (Kowas Hunting Safaris) take the following as PAYMENT MEDIUM for the deposit:
Credit card / SWIFT transfer (not every one is willing to complete the authorisation form for the CC payment).

Payment medium for the final payment is:
Credit card / Cashier cheque / travelers cheque / cash

We do accept credit card payments - unfortunately it is an exception in the trophy hunting industry since the outfitters are reluctant to render this service to their clients since it is an additional cost to us as outfitter (but we are prepared to go that extra mile to make it easier for the client).

I paid for my hunt through the booking agent and he paid the outfitter. We set up a escrow account with the agent. I used a swift tansfer for the taxidermist and shipping agent. My mutual fund company Vanguard did the swift transfer for nothing. I did have to pay for a signiture guarantee, which I had done at my local bank. When I go back in 2014 the outfitter and I will set up a swift transfer with his bank and I think I can use his computer to pay him at the end of the hunt. I will set it up before I go and send him somethng for a deposit. Then we will know if things are going smoothly. It only took Vanguard a couple days to get the money to the taxidermist and shipper. Those of you who have brokeage account should check them out for this service.

This thread has touched more than one issue which I'd like to give my 2 cents on:

% Deposit

The primary reason for requiring a deposit from a client for an upcoming hunt is to secure the dates in the Outfitter's diary. Yes; in some instances he may also start incurring expenses from the day that a contract is signed (booking camps, reserving time of PH's etc.) but most importantly he is booking out his own time / facilities to (a) particular client(s). This means he can't allocate the same dates to another client and the only way to protect himself and his business - should the client cancel - is to ask for a deposit (which is usually not refundable). Now there have been debates about "refund policies" on this forum and some others which I chose not to engage in but let's be realistic... If a Client cancels his hunt with an Outfitter - say a week (or even a month) before the start of a hunt - there is very little chance that, that Outfitter will get a replacement booking for the same timeframe. This means the Outfitter will most likely sit for a week, 10 days (or however long the safari was booked for) twiddeling his thumbs instead of hunting and earning an income.

I think the majority of Outfitters ask for up to 50% deposit on the hunt's Daily Rates or the Package Price (whichever is applicable) because the reality is that the deposit needs to be substantial enough to get a real commitment from the client and make him/her think twice before cancelling the hunt at a later date. The risk of taking too small a deposit is that a Client might be willing to forfeit his/her deposit if he/she finds what he/she perceives to be a "better deal" somewhere else (or whatever else the reason might be). Irrespective of what the reason for a cancellation is - the Outfitter will not only lose out on income but potentially also on new business.

Paying upfront for trophy fees:

Whilst I can understand the apprehension that some may have towards paying for something they haven't gotten yet - I find it interesting that a similar principle is applied to many (if not most) outfitted North-American hunts that I know of. I might have this wrong but if you booked a guided Elk hunt in WY or a Bear hunt in Alaska; you pay upfront for it - irrespective of whether you see or kill an Elk or a Bear during the hunt. The only "security" you have if you booked one of these hunts is the reputation of the Outfitter and trusting him that he actually has Elk or Bear in his areas - not? In the same sense; the only security you have when booking a hunt with an African Outfitter is his reputation. If he is a stand-up guy - you should have no concerns as he will have the game available in his areas with a resonable chance on success and the means to refund you for any unutilized trophy fees after the hunt (depending on how the hunt was sold of course).

Means of Payment:

I am one of the "unfortunate" Outfitters who cannot justify the service and transactional fees associated to getting a credit card merchant facility in order to provide an alternative payment solution to my customers for (essentially) 6 months a year. South African Banks charge up to 7% merchant commission on the value transactions + a substantial monthly service fee. In an environment where many potential customers are looking for the best deal they can get and prices are already cut to the bone it just makes no sense to me financially - unless I were to pass this additional cost on to my clients - which is in turn a violation of most Merchant Agreements and I would risk not only having my Merchant Agreement terminated by the Bank but also getting a bad record with them...

I've used PayPal to receive and make payments with varying degrees of success... Some have managed to transfer rather high $$$ amounts without a problem whilst others thought they had it all set up before they left their home countries and arrived here just to figure out they couldn't get the transfer done. And on the last day of the safari - working in different time zones and not having someone available to take your call and resolve queries at PayPal's HQ... Believe me - this is no fun for anyone!

So I have an American bank account - which makes it easier and cheaper for my clients to send money to - but in turn it costs me $50 for every transfer I make to my bank here in SA. This is a cost that I can justify as I can wait for funds in my offshore bank account to accumulate and transfer funds in larger batches instead of a few hundred Dollars here and there.

At the end of the day - "Cash is King" but I don't really mind how I get paid as long as I do get paid in full before the client gets here or before he departs from here...

Thanks for the great reply as always Chris. I like the outfitters that have American bank accounts, it makes things very simple.

Norwegianwoods said:

I have used Paypal a lot and have so far not had any problems at all.
But I have only used it for amounts lower than $500.
For higher amounts that I want to be payed into a bank account, I just transfer the money from my account by using internet banking and the fees here in Norway are low for doing that.

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Another investigation at the bank to see if I can get a simple transfer done.
Thx.

enysse said:

Thanks for the great reply as always Chris. I like the outfitters that have American bank accounts, it makes things very simple.

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If you're American!

BRICKBURN said:

If you're American!

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LOL, that's the price we pay for giving up the great hunting and fishing of Canada. We get a few conveniences.

It makes a lot of sense to have a bank account in the country where most of your clients come from.

In my case, I don t have any problems at all with payments. My booking agent is a good friend, so I pay him at my convenience, in my own cuntry, and he settles his accounts with the african outfitter.

This way I just need to carry money for tips and any local purchases.

Has anybody use Money Gram? Terrific and quick.Within hours you will have your money.Any comments?
PayPal like any institution is a money spinner bad to the bone. :dancing:

PayPal

Bearhunter do u have a PayPal account. Or could you pay directly to Jacques PayPal account from your bank.