Is there such a thing as too big?

Fred Gunner said:

"Is there such a thing as too big?"

I'll check with my wife when she gets home and get back to you with an answer???

(Do you people do these things to me on purpose...asking for a friend?)

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Great minds think alike... And also ... A dirty mind is a joy forever..

IvW said:

I guess if the best is one in the guts and three in the arse caliber will make little difference......

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Very true, but no matter where you hunt.... no matter what you shoot anywhere in this world you will have people who simply blast away " at" an animal with absolutely no idea where they are going to hit it..... if anywhere at all.

DieJager said:

Great minds think alike... And also ... A dirty mind is a joy forever..

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I'll admit, I wanted to tell him "Ask your mother," but my gut said no.

W.D.M. Bell had some opinions on the matter. . .

Firebird said:

W.D.M. Bell had some opinions on the matter. . .

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How many Safaris do you think people set up platforms in tall grass and snipe at elephants with brain shots nowadays? John Taylor had the opposite idea of using enough gun because he did not hunt the same way.

Tanks said:

How many Safaris do you think people set up platforms in tall grass and snipe at elephants with brain shots nowadays? John Taylor had the opposite idea of using enough gun because he did not hunt the same way.

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Nor would I call his approach particularly ethical...

tigris115 said:

I'll admit, I wanted to tell him "Ask your mother," but my gut said no.

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Forget your “gut feelings” alway go with your hart…Life is to short not to enjoy each and every moment…just ask your mother!?

The only thing that counts is a proper placement of a properly constructed bullet...caliber is secondary IMO...

Fred Gunner said:

Forget your “gut feelings” alway go with your hart…Life is to short not to enjoy each and every moment…just ask your mother!?
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Well, my gut is usually full of shit so there you go.

Round, and around and around we go

Is there such a thing as too big?
Is there such a thing as too fast?
Is there such a thing as too small?
Is there such as thing as too heavy?
Is there such a thing as too light?
Is there such a thing as too far?
Is there... etc.

Hmmm...

Ah! Got it!

Maybe something you can't shoot? 900 NE?
Maybe something that melts a barrel in 100 shots? 6,000 fps 6.5?
Maybe something that only kills when shot through the ear canal? 15 gr .17 Solid?
Maybe something you can't carry? 40 lbs rifle?
Maybe something that kicks you so bad you don't want to shoot it ever again? 4.5 lbs .600 Overkill?
Maybe sometime when you can't reliably predict whether you will hit it? xxx yards hunting shot?
Maybe... etc.

I dunno, I am just taking wild guesses here

Man I can't wait for Africa to re-open...

I'd say too big is a rifle that's too big for you to consistently handle comfortably. Especially with dangerous game, you gotta handle that rifle as well as you possibly can. So it's gotta fit the balance of stopping power and portability.

Yes, there is such a thing as a gun too big, but it’s rare, maybe 5% of all complaints point to that root cause.

95% of the time, a gun too big is really:

1.) scope rings too high and scope too big getting your face off the comb. (80%+ of the time!)
2.) poor stock dimensions at the comb.
3.) excessive cast
4.) improper recoil pad (<5% of the item...it’s usually not the pad!)

I can’t say it enough, I can’t remind American gunsmiths enough either: STOP overscoping guns! Big scopes are unnecessary, slow acquisition, and make for miserable recoil. I’ve NEVER OWNED high rings on any best quality rifle of the dozens I’ve had, and only 1 or 2 needed medium rings. Almost every gun I own is in Low or Ultra Low rings as intended by the stocker. Your face should be at the same position with iron sights or scope, if you’re taking your face off the comb to use the scope or adjusting your face at all, your gun is at fault. I’ve seen $50 American guns and $15,ooo American guns with this same malady. How to tell if your gunsmith is uninformed: he recommends or installs tactical rings on rifles, dead giveaway. They are all too big and he’d fail his apprenticeship at Rigby, Holland, or G&H on the very first day.

Too big? I reckon a 50 is enough, probably?
I can send a few $10 rounds down range if I need to but $100+ hell no! Oh if I had the chance maybe I would spring for one so I can say I shot an overkill.
I reckon I about average height, build, strength and fitness. I can handle my .375H&H , then so could my then 17yo twin nieces. The .375can handle most things they say.
I wouldn’t be opposed to a .416, I owned a .458wm, almost rechambered to a Lott, I could probably handle it, at least on the odd hunt where I might need it.
The PH and some others need a backup rifle, I would like to own a nice Double in any traditional functional big bore but I doubt I will see the need to justify the expense. Not in my budget, not yet there is hope.
I guess I am an average shot, pending what average is maybe better than average, i went OK in Africa, My PH said he can see I know how to shoot, some here would have better success and tons more experience.

I read “There are Born hunters and Money Born hunters” I will my bet here are many in the second category that might hit a Black bear 4 times before a well placed shot puts it down as @Von S. wrote. He is likely a better shot than Dad and Dave anyway, the .458 was of no consequence if he could shoot straight. I like the 7mm-08, it’s pretty capable but if I ever hunt Bear I would likely go a little bigger. If that was a wounded Grizzly running at you then “is there such a thing as too big?”

Firebird said:

W.D.M. Bell had some opinions on the matter. . .

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Tanks said:

How many Safaris do you think people set up platforms in tall grass and snipe at elephants with brain shots nowadays? John Taylor had the opposite idea of using enough gun because he did not hunt the same way.

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Saul said:

Nor would I call his approach particularly ethical...

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I don’t know enough about their history but was John Taylor a Poacher? I have a book of his I planned to read. I read more on the net,

Shot placement is paramount! Bullet selection and calibre are important too. I like Nosler Hunting Ballistic tips so I can have something special but I sometimes remind my self that soft points worked well for many years when it’s all I had.

I think “unless you really want them” is the answer here.
If you do, can afford it, like to shoot it, can actually hit with; carry on. Hunt with what one likes.
Hell, I regularly hunt in Alaska with 416’s and 375’s. Not required, but I like the rifles and I enjoy shooting them. I am certainly not ballistically hampered at the distances that I hunt with them.
I also have a couple of 458 Lott’s and a 458 Winchester that I am becoming quite fond of.
I may hunt with my stainless 458 Lott once I have a few modifications done to it.
As long as one can hit what they are aiming at, I say go for it.

tigris115 said:

So sometimes when farting about on the ol' YT, I often see videos about the fabled 700 Nitro Express, the product of a Californian client who wanted a 600 Nitro from H&H, got rejected because of some contract, made a giant cartridge, and birthed the 700 Nitro Express. I also love the channel Forgotten Weapons, who covered both 4 bore rifles and a recently made custom 2 bore rifle.
But it got me thinking, is there such a thing as making a bullet too big with not enough reasons why? Because you got things like the 416 and 458 that can down any thick-skinned brute with a well placed shot and using a rifle that'll kill the quarry, not your nest egg. Even rifles in 470 and 500 are easier to find for a reasonable price (as reasonable as a double rifle can be). Whereas according to most sources, one bullet for the 700 Nitro costs $125. For comparison, a 500 NE is about 8-10 bucks per round, and shooting a 458 Win Mag sends about 6-8 bucks down the range. So from this, I feel like the truly mammoth cartridges like the 577 upward just aren't worth it unless you really want them

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CBH Australia said:

...

I read “There are Born hunters and Money Born hunters” I will my bet here are many in the second category that might hit a Black bear 4 times before a well placed shot puts it down as @Von S. wrote.

...
I don’t know enough about their history but was John Taylor a Poacher? I have a book of his I planned to read. I read more on the net,

Shot placement is paramount! Bullet selection and calibre are important too. I like Nosler Hunting Ballistic tips so I can have something special but I sometimes remind my self that soft points worked well for many years when it’s all I had.

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I'd change it to "trained" and "untrained" hunters, rather than tying it to finances. If one has to be realistic those that have the means, assuming that they have the desire, can afford formal training and enough ammo to get proficient with their firearms. The so called "money hunters" can afford $4,500 for 4 days of training at places like http://ftwsaam.com/SAAMTraining.aspx?id=sfr to get them started (I haven't been there, but heard good things about it from people that have). No one is "born" anything, heck not even a specific gender nowadays .

In regards to John Taylor, yes he was a self-admitted poacher. His contribution has been a thorough study and documentation of firearms and cartridges for dangerous African game.

Finally, nothing wrong with soft point for game that calls for it. I wouldn't go after an elephant with a soft point bullet though.

This one shoots accurate out to 30 miles-messes with my chrony so not sure on the FPS. It weighs 100 pounds and requires a separate powder charge and separate primer. Looks kinda like a big green accubond. And yes sometimes you have to change out your barrel.

Too big is a subjective question that an individual must ask himself at a place and time where he can be honest with himself. Standing amongst our buddies we might shoulder the big gun every time so as not to lose face. There is a big difference between the gun you run well and the gun you endure. There are folks out there who are doing everything they can to impress others.

Forrest Halley said:

... There is a big difference between the gun you run well and the gun you endure. There are folks out there who are doing everything they can to impress others.

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People shoot with others? I usually get my own shooting bay up to a 100 yards. For anything longer than that I would not be using real big bores, PG rounds in my .458 B&M, but that is not an impressive looking gun. I also do not socialize at the range, I usually have a list of things I want to do and check through. I focus on that, finish and pack up. If some friends are around I do socialize afterwards.

Tanks said:

I'd change it to "trained" and "untrained" hunters, rather than tying it to finances. If one has to be realistic those that have the means, assuming that they have the desire, can afford formal training and enough ammo to get proficient with their firearms. The so called "money hunters" can afford $4,500 for 4 days of training at places like http://ftwsaam.com/SAAMTraining.aspx?id=sfr to get them started (I haven't been there, but heard good things about it from people that have). No one is "born" anything, heck not even a specific gender nowadays .

In regards to John Taylor, yes he was a self-admitted poacher. His contribution has been a thorough study and documentation of firearms and cartridges for dangerous African game.

Finally, nothing wrong with soft point for game that calls for it. I wouldn't go after an elephant with a soft point bullet though.

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Fair point,

it’s something I quoted that I read. Most people can be trained to do many things, some have natural ability or talent some a bit of luck.
My shooting came from growing up in the bush, my limited knowledge came from my interest to learn. My skill came from practice and .
I’ve seen people attend course for various things that they get deemed competent for but never really master them.

As for choosing Gender I think that is up to nature. Identifying as other, that is a choice as we bow to the minority, Gender is announced at birth by the midwife “It’s a (Insert Boy or Girl here)” made by nature.
Hunters , no it’s not about money. If someone is successful financially good for them. I try improve my position. I’m probably way behind many here but I try.
Not knocking anyone here, except Dad and Dave in the earlier post who were taking pot shots at a black bear, that could easily have been someone with means and no idea.

Tanks said:

People shoot with others? I usually get my own shooting bay up to a 100 yards. For anything longer than that I would not be using real big bores, PG rounds in my .458 B&M, but that is not an impressive looking gun. I also do not socialize at the range, I usually have a list of things I want to do and check through. I focus on that, finish and pack up. If some friends are around I do socialize afterwards.

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I heard the crash of a .505 Gibbs at the range and wondered what the heck it was. Wandered up and started talking to the guy. He was nice enough to offer me a shot on it. I took it and was blown away. This particular guy was very proud of his rifle and told me all about the load and such. I was shocked by the amount of Retumbo he was feeding it. All in all gun guys like to talk about their toys. If you shoot that gun on a weekend with others at the range, you're going to be the center of attention. Whether or not it's intentional.