Interested in a speed test...

How are you going to handle human error, in that some folks shoot better than others..Such a test is entirely up to you the shooter it seems to me..I do that to practice, Ive never seen much difference in my results between the double and the bolt gun other than the double is faster for two shots, then the game is over, the bolt gun wins, but that is exatly what the double is intended to do...Careful not to overthink this test, if its for fun and games then get after it, but if its for your survival in Africa which is highly unlikely but definatly possible the difference is so little that good shooting is the only way out of such a mess..Not being critical just what I see as a realistic reply to a reasonable question..Ive been involved in 2.5 buffalo charges, in which I held my fire until the last minute and shot the animal in the brain in two of those chagres, splattering a pie plate Isn't recommended IMO, its dangerous.
 
How are you going to handle human error, in that some folks shoot better than others..Such a test is entirely up to you the shooter it seems to me..I do that to practice, Ive never seen much difference in my results between the double and the bolt gun other than the double is faster for two shots, then the game is over, the bolt gun wins, but that is exatly what the double is intended to do...Careful not to overthink this test, if its for fun and games then get after it, but if its for your survival in Africa which is highly unlikely but definatly possible the difference is so little that good shooting is the only way out of such a mess..Not being critical just what I see as a realistic reply to a reasonable question..Ive been involved in 2.5 buffalo charges, in which I held my fire until the last minute and shot the animal in the brain in two of those chagres, splattering a pie plate Isn't recommended IMO, its dangerous.

What I have found is that everything works great nice, slow and easy. When you put a time demand on to increase stress and difficulty, then things start to show their weaknesses. Anyone can shoot fast and anyone can shoot accurately. The idea in this post was to motivate folks to do both. Six shots is more for skill building of reloads under pressure and a likely point where I reasoned the hunter is likely to have shot his way out of trouble. A pie plate is easy to come by for most people and it doesn't have notable aiming points on it. I think it's a very large target at 25 yards with a rifle, but a person is free to cut it down as they see fit or count only hits fully on the smooth flat area.

What size area do you think is a valid test?

How does one get involved in half of a buffalo charge?
 
What I have found is that everything works great nice, slow and easy. When you put a time demand on to increase stress and difficulty, then things start to show their weaknesses. Anyone can shoot fast and anyone can shoot accurately. The idea in this post was to motivate folks to do both. Six shots is more for skill building of reloads under pressure and a likely point where I reasoned the hunter is likely to have shot his way out of trouble. A pie plate is easy to come by for most people and it doesn't have notable aiming points on it. I think it's a very large target at 25 yards with a rifle, but a person is free to cut it down as they see fit or count only hits fully on the smooth flat area.

What size area do you think is a valid test?

How does one get involved in half of a buffalo charge?
“Half of a buffalo charge”? Three possibilities?
1. Charging calf buffalo?
2. The hunter missed twice with his double, so the buffalo stopped cause the charge was no longer a challenge?
3. The hunter missed the buffalo during the charge but the buffalo continued charging and the hunter was running for his life so it would really be only half a charge cause the hunting stopped and survival started?
Maybe something else?
 
“Half of a buffalo charge”? Three possibilities?
1. Charging calf buffalo?
2. The hunter missed twice with his double, so the buffalo stopped cause the charge was no longer a challenge?
3. The hunter missed the buffalo during the charge but the buffalo continued charging and the hunter was running for his life so it would really be only half a charge cause the hunting stopped and survival started?
Maybe something else?

I have had several half-buffalo charges, funnily enough, one of which was a sick yearling who launched at me, which was quite surprising. We were trying to see what was wrong with him.
 
I have had several half-buffalo charges, funnily enough, one of which was a sick yearling who launched at me, which was quite surprising. We were trying to see what was wrong with him.
Interesting? All joking aside on my part, I have no desire or “longing for adventure “ to be charged by any animal. I was inadvertently “charged” (actually almost run over) by a cow elk once. The cow had been shot at by another hunter and I was in thick vegetation on a slight downsloping hill. First the bullet went about thirty feet over my head (never had heard that buzzing of a bullet before?) and a minute later the cow was running towards me. I jumped up and waved my arms and she just stopped. She caught her breath and just walked off. Of course I had a bull elk tag. Anyway, if at all possible, I, like every hunter want a clean, one shot kill. I know s*** can happen though, so I continue to practice well aimed shots, reloading, etc.
 
My BRNO will hold six, 5 down and one up the pipe. No reloading required. However I will use my Winchester which holds 4. I’ll have a friend time it and report back. One thing, I send a 300 grain at 2480 so I will miss the power factor by a little.

We'll want to see the target too :)
 
We'll want to see the target too :)
Man that’s been a while. I use a standard paper plate, 4 rounds cut paper. My time was good for the first four then I had a slow reload then two good shots. It was about zero that day I had cold fingers and dug the shells out of my coat pocket.
 
I’m still looking for a .458 Garand rifle!
 
Man that’s been a while. I use a standard paper plate, 4 rounds cut paper. My time was good for the first four then I had a slow reload then two good shots. It was about zero that day I had cold fingers and dug the shells out of my coat pocket.
What is everyone using for cartridge holders for reloads?
Belt mounted cartridge slide, dedicated cartridge belt or maybe something else?
How many rounds?
Open top or flap over the top?
 

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I tried it again. This time loading from the safari five. I got five hits although 3 were in the raised outer ring of the paper plate. I lost count and pulled the trigger on a empty chamber. At least I didn’t flinch. My reload was slower than I wanted it to be. I am sure I can polish this test and get it a lot smoother.
 
How are you going to handle human error, in that some folks shoot better than others..Such a test is entirely up to you the shooter it seems to me..I do that to practice, Ive never seen much difference in my results between the double and the bolt gun other than the double is faster for two shots, then the game is over, the bolt gun wins, but that is exatly what the double is intended to do...Careful not to overthink this test, if its for fun and games then get after it, but if its for your survival in Africa which is highly unlikely but definatly possible the difference is so little that good shooting is the only way out of such a mess..Not being critical just what I see as a realistic reply to a reasonable question..Ive been involved in 2.5 buffalo charges, in which I held my fire until the last minute and shot the animal in the brain in two of those chagres, splattering a pie plate Isn't recommended IMO, its dangerous.

Agree, but if you practice and can work your bolt quickly, you can also practice more slowly and make sure you can hit a tennis ball every time at 25 yards. How many guides have seen their clients fumble with their rifles and jam them trying to quickly get a 2nd round in the chamber? Practice helps, dry firing helps and of course getting out there and hunting (deer, elk, bear, jack rabbits) with your DG rifle helps even more.
 
Forrest,
My grand half charge per your request:

I shot the buffalo running broadside at about 75 yards, he continued running with his nose up in a circle trying to locate our scent and he did at about 45 yards and came for us, but had not pinned us down location wise then at about 35 yards it was apparent he had us located, and came over a rise at that 35 yards and I placed a 450 gr. Woodleigh 416 in his thorax and his nose dug a tench in the mud...I call it a half charge as he never got close enough to be a problem, but it was exciting, thus my half charge! :) He was the best bull I ever shot and Ive shot many buffalo..

It would be a good example that a pie plate isn't a good target, how about a baseball..IMO the only good shot in a charging animal is the brain or spine, Iv seen them go a mile or more with a heart/lung shot a few times and many go 100 yards shot the same is my point..and I have seen that with the 500 N.E. and .470 and have that on film, one bull took 9 shots the other 13..It was client of mine from Boise and his crew, and the hunt was filmed.

A point to be made is in todays Africa you will be backed up by a PH, perhaps a friend of yours or another PH is not uncommon, and even the gamescout will probably have a gun with at least one bullet in it...chances are not likely a charge will take place in ones lifetime, unless he is involved in a lot of hunts and culls..I know a one hunter from UAE that has shot at least 300 plus buffalo and never been charged, but ya never know.
 
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Forrest,
My grand half charge per your request:

I shot the buffalo running broadside at about 75 yards, he continued running with his nose up in a circle trying to locate our scent and he did at about 45 yards and came for us, but had not pinned us down location wise then at about 35 yards it was apparent he had us located, and came over a rise at that 35 yards and I placed a 450 gr. Woodleigh 416 in his thorax and his nose dug a tench in the mud...I call it a half charge as he never got close enough to be a problem, but it was exciting, thus my half charge! :) He was the best bull I ever shot and Ive shot many buffalo..

It would be a good example that a pie plate isn't a good target, how about a baseball..IMO the only good shot in a charging animal is the brain or spine, Iv seen them go a mile or more with a heart/lung shot a few times and many go 100 yards shot the same is my point..and I have seen that with the 500 N.E. and .470 and have that on film, one bull took 9 shots the other 13..It was client of mine from Boise and his crew, and the hunt was filmed.
Well Ray that is an excellent story. I like how you finished it at a distance quickly and decisively.

As far as the target size, I figured people would have paper plates on hand. I don't have any issue with the smaller target. I think it is more practical especially for a rifle. I figured that.group size would shrink as people tried it more. I am of the opinion that the DG rifles as a whole are shot little and talked about much. From the sound of it I shoot mine more than most and I don't really feel like I shoot them enough.
 
A Major and Minor Power Factor is involved. Splendid! Points over time is a Hit Factor. What was the minimum hit factor to pass?

You have to use a legal calibre for zim- 9.3 MMS and 5kJ energy if I recall correctly- 375 h and h. Below a .400 calibre gets a full 5 points for a bull and then 3,2,1 for the next rings while above .400 get 5,4,3,2. The score was done on an excel spreadsheet-they may add a weighting factor to certain shoots. Guides did 4 shoots-charging lion twice hunters do the same and add 2 more- 2 shots at a 75 m going and a fire and movement .
Are you allowed to shoot any target first or do you have to shoot them in specific order like far to near, reload, far to near? Tell us more about the other tests. I saw the video of the remote charging target. Are you allowed to shoot it more than once?
The order was far to near then near to far -theory being a charging animal. This shoot was 6 shots scored and the lion is one shot but afterwards people have some run-out is possible to put 2 shots in with a boltgun-3 with a a blaser and an easy 2 with a double
 

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