Rifle for Plains game

375Fox · May 8, 2020

I’ve found this to be a really good resource, google “Chuck Hawks recoil table” it will be the first result. You’ll notice two of your original choices the 26 and 28 Nosler actually have very significant recoil. 7mm-08 is very negligible recoil. Some of the other calibers mentioned 308, 7mm Remington are fairly low recoil as well.

Divernhunter · May 8, 2020

My daughter used her 257R for warthog(about 10,) Impala(3), Red Hartebeest(1), Kudu(1), Zebra(1) and all were one shot no tracking kills. The impalas were fun shooting culls and the warthogs were for food for the trackers and the PH liked her so no charge.

This was spot and stalk at ranges from 135 to 410 yards. She used 120gr Swift A-Frames and put the bullet were she should. I used a 257W and 338win mag and did no better. You do not need a 30-06, 7mag or whatever for Africa if you can shoot correctly. A 100-120gr bullet in the right place is much better than 300grs that is not. The 6.5X55 or even the 6.5Crudmore or even a 7-08 using Swift bullets or Barnes TTSX will also do well as long as you can shoot properly.

Scott CWO · May 8, 2020

MarkD said:
Need opinions for a rifle caliber for my wife with plains game. We booked a trip for plains game next year. This will be my second trip but my wife’s first. She’s never hunted before and I’d like to get her a rifle to use. I bought her a savage 243 which she’ll use for deer here in Oregon this year. I know that’s not enough gun for Africa. I have a 6.5cm longer range gun but we’ve got a few larger game on our list. Sable, zebra and waterbuck among a few others. We shoot competitive shotgun sports so I don’t she super recoil sensitive, but I want a rifle she can shoot comfortably. I’ve been thinking about 7mm-08. Heard good things but never shot one. Others include 6.5 per, or 26 Nosler or 28 Nosler. Give me some feedbacks guys.

Dang it I just sold a 7mm-08 that would have been perfect for her... Good luck with your search.

Von S. · May 8, 2020

375Fox said:
I’ve found this to be a really good resource, google “Chuck Hawks recoil table” it will be the first result. You’ll notice two of your original choices the 26 and 28 Nosler actually have very significant recoil. 7mm-08 is very negligible recoil. Some of the other calibers mentioned 308, 7mm Remington are fairly low recoil as well.

Good advice.

The 28 Nosler is a ballistic twin to the 7mm VHSE which I have been using for years to clobber just about everything that weighs 1k or less at long distance and it gives up little to the Weatherby 30-378.

And yes.... the 28 does have a bit of recoil.

If this woman is an Annie Oakley and uses the right bullet shell drop just about every plains game there is with 25 caliber or bigger.

krish · May 8, 2020

An 8mm surplus will be ideal. It recoils mild, frontal are is adequate for plains game, ammo is easy to find.

One Day... · May 8, 2020

Is the 7 mm Rem Mag anything but an obnoxiously loud .280/ 7x64 with lighter bullets? :A Stirring:

.280: 140 gr @ 3,000 fps and 7 mm Rem Mag: 140 gr @ 3,100 fps...

OK, OK, the 7 mm Rem Mag comes into its own with 175 gr slugs

but at this stage recoil is significantly higher

which takes it out of this discussion, does not it?

I gifted a Win 70 Classic Stainless 7 mm Rem Mag to each of my 2 boys, but with 175 gr it is too much gun for my 3 daughters who do not shoot anywhere near as often

, and with 140 gr slugs it does not offer much over the .270 130 gr @ 3,060 fps...

We need two volunteers to now undertake Jack O'Connor's and Elmer Keith's roles in the upcoming debate :E Rofl:

norfolk shooter · May 8, 2020

One Day... said:
Is the 7 mm Rem Mag anything but an obnoxiously loud .280/ 7x64 with lighter bullets?

Im a big fan of the 7.64 and load a 168 grn pill. And yes the 7mm RM is best when loaded heavy screw on a silencer and its sweet to shoot

shootist~ · May 8, 2020

A good 308 or 30-06, assuming the fit is good, would be hard to beat, IMO.

You know from the clays games that the weight of the shotgun and the dram equivalent (shot weight and velocity) both play a part in felt recoil. An 8.5 lb 12 guage with 1 1/8 oz 3 dram (1,200 fps) is roughly equivalent, recoil wise, to a 7.6 Lb 308 150 gr at 2,800 fps.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi

The 150 gr Barnes 308 TTSX is a proven plains game load based on an excellent hunt report by @Just Gina among others:
https://www.africahunting.com/threa...s-honeymoon-hunt-her-side-of-the-story.50861/

Move up to an 8 lb 30-06 with a 180 at 2,725 fps (based on my Tikka Hunter with 22 oz optic) and energy levels as well as recoil goes up significantly. FYI Tikka uses the same action length for everything - there is no short action.

The beauty of the 30-06 (or 308W), if you reload, is it can also be downloaded to a very pleasant level for training or practice. My 150 gr Nosler BT at 2,660 fps (using IMR-4895) is both accurate and very pleasant to shoot.

My 2 cents.

Hogpatrol · May 8, 2020

More 2¢, Whichever rifle she is supremely confident with, practice on sticks and take it. No crushing need to buy another rifle. The 6.5 CM with the right loads/bullets will kill everything on your list. I am only a fan of using the magnum class of rifle if one is shooting over 400 meters. If anyone remembers, the 7RM was pumped/touted/advertised to death when it was introduced and 100 yard deer hunters ran out and bought thousands of them. For what, I have no idea.

norfolk shooter · May 8, 2020

Hogpatrol said:
More 2¢, Whichever rifle she is supremely confident with, practice on sticks and take it. No crushing need to buy another rifle. The 6.5 CM with the right loads/bullets will kill everything on your list. I am only a fan of using the magnum class of rifle if one is shooting over 400 meters. If anyone remembers, the 7RM was pumped/touted/advertised to death when it was introduced and 100 yard deer hunters ran out and bought thousands of them. For what, I have no idea.

When I said words like this I was accused of not enabling.

curtism1234 · May 8, 2020

One Day... said:
Is the 7 mm Rem Mag anything but an obnoxiously loud .280/ 7x64 with lighter bullets?

.280: 140 gr @ 3,000 fps and 7 mm Rem Mag: 140 gr @ 3,100 fps...

OK, OK, the 7 mm Rem Mag comes into its own with 175 gr slugs but at this stage recoil is significantly higher which takes it out of this discussion, does not it?

I gifted a Win 70 Classic Stainless 7 mm Rem Mag to each of my 2 boys, but with 175 gr it is too much gun for my 3 daughters who do not shoot anywhere near as often , and with 140 gr slugs it does not offer much over the .270 130 gr @ 3,060 fps...

We need two volunteers to now undertake Jack O'Connor's and Elmer Keith's roles in the upcoming debate

I don't shoot a lot of 175gr. However, every time I do I believe it recoils less than the 150gr. On paper that is false, but just my feeling.

BeeMaa · May 8, 2020

One Day... said:
Is the 7 mm Rem Mag anything but an obnoxiously loud .280/ 7x64 with lighter bullets?

.280: 140 gr @ 3,000 fps and 7 mm Rem Mag: 140 gr @ 3,100 fps...

OK, OK, the 7 mm Rem Mag comes into its own with 175 gr slugs but at this stage recoil is significantly higher which takes it out of this discussion, does not it?

I gifted a Win 70 Classic Stainless 7 mm Rem Mag to each of my 2 boys, but with 175 gr it is too much gun for my 3 daughters who do not shoot anywhere near as often , and with 140 gr slugs it does not offer much over the .270 130 gr @ 3,060 fps...

We need two volunteers to now undertake Jack O'Connor's and Elmer Keith's roles in the upcoming debate

Careful there @One Day...
Is the 257WBY anything but an obnoxiously loud 25-06? :A Stirring:

BigSteve57 · May 8, 2020

There are numerous calibers, loads and cartridges out there. In fact, there is a continuous spectrum of cartridges from .22 rimfire all the way up to 50 caliber and larger. For hunting, many of them seem to have no other purpose other than the designer trying to make a name for themselves,IMHO.

One way to filter out the seemingly mind numbing number of choices to pick FOR HUNTING is to try and decide what cartridge will likely be available at or near the location where you are hunting. "Stuff" happens".

Years ago I forgot to pack ammo for a week long deer hunting trip to Wharton Pennsylvania. Ever been to Wharton Pennsylvania? At the time it had a couple of bars, a diner, a gas station and 3 gun stores. Getting 30-06 ammunition in Wharton Pennsylvania was not a problem. Yes I felt like an idiot.
While traveling to Africa, SAA changed their policy to require a separate piece of baggage for ammo. We didn't have it so they threw it in a cardboard box. We could have lost our ammo but luckily didn't. If we had lost our ammo, getting it in Windhoek would have been easy. Heck our guide had 30-06 and would have gladly given us some if we needed it. That's what HE hunted with.
I was in an Elk hunting camp where one of the guys said he somehow lost his ammo on the 4 hour ride on horseback to camp (or he forgot it at the lodge and wouldn't admit it). Were it not for the fact that his load was 30-06 and another hunter was kind enough to loan him a half dozen rounds, his hunt would have been over.
I could probably think of other cases...

We took 30-06 and .375 H&H to Namibia. I took a Zebra & Steenbok whereas my wife took a Blue WildeBeest, Oryx and Red Hartebeest with the 30-06.

My recommendation for plains game: Pick a cartridge equivalent to the 30-06 that is commonly available where you are going..

CBH Australia · May 8, 2020

Many suggested 7mm-08, i hired a 7mm Rm but have the .308 and 7mm-08 at home. More experience with the .308 but i really like the 7mm-08 and the performance. @Nyati has forst hand experience.
Shot placement is paramount. Premium bullets help on tough game.
I would not go from. 243 at 6mm to a 6.5 to close if you want someyhing bigger.
I watched a you tube comparison on 6.5 7mm-08 and .308. The presenter showed the figures but seemed biases and kept saying the 6.5 is not far behind its so close etc. I thought the gap was bigger there than the next gap between 7mm-08 & .308 .
7mm and .30 have a great tange of HUNTING PROJECTILES. Not so sure on 6.5.
.308 easier to source
I found enough onle to support the 7mm-08 is pretty close to the .308 or maybe some advantage in some aspects but that is the information i wanted to see im sure there is information contrary to this.
See if she can try a couple. But both should be capable others may be better but thats another bracket up too.
The 7mm-08 is often quoted as being a ballistic twin to the older more traditional 7x57. Just a newer incarnation in a smaller case.
I believe 7mm-08 is popular with White tail hunters and Kiwi hunters . Not Kiwi birds the Kiwi people who hunt.

Bob Nelson 35Whelen · May 8, 2020

Divernhunter said:
My daughter used her 257R for warthog(about 10,) Impala(3), Red Hartebeest(1), Kudu(1), Zebra(1) and all were one shot no tracking kills. The impalas were fun shooting culls and the warthogs were for food for the trackers and the PH liked her so no charge. View attachment 346899 View attachment 346900 View attachment 346901 View attachment 346902 View attachment 346903 This was spot and stalk at ranges from 135 to 410 yards. She used 120gr Swift A-Frames and put the bullet were she should. I used a 257W and 338win mag and did no better. You do not need a 30-06, 7mag or whatever for Africa if you can shoot correctly. A 100-120gr bullet in the right place is much better than 300grs that is not. The 6.5X55 or even the 6.5Crudmore or even a 7-08 using Swift bullets or Barnes TTSX will also do well as long as you can shoot properly.

Divernhunter
Your daughter did very well. I do like the Roberts.
For some strange reason kids only need a 25 where as us he men need a magnum to do the same job.
Maybe we should get back to our roots and learn to shoot.
Cheers mate Bob

One Day... · May 9, 2020

BeeMaa said:
Careful there @One Day...
Is the 257WBY anything but an obnoxiously loud 25-06?

This is a very fair question BeeMaa. I asked myself this question seriously before I committed to the .257 Wby.

The answer that I came with was: .25-06: 100 gr TTSX @ 3,200 fps and .257 Wby: 100 gr TTSX @ 3,600 fps.

While the 100 fps difference between .280 140 gr and 7 mm Rem Mag 140 gr can be mitigated by individual loads and rifles, I reckon that the 400 fps difference between .25-06 100 gr and .257 Wby 100 gr is substantially meaningful

However, is there anything the .257 Wby can do that the .25-06 cannot do? Absolutely not! But I personally liked the additional 30 yards of MPBR.

Truth be told, does it still matter as much today as it did yesterday?

I suspect that the answer is no. An accurate custom calibrated BDC (bullet drop compensation) turret for a specific load in a specific rifle, validated by actual chronographing of the load and actual shooting at the actual distances 100, 200, 300, 400 yd, and that only takes rotating without further thinking to 175, 250 or 325 (for example) after an accurate EHR (equivalent horizontal range) reading from a reliable range finder, makes flatter trajectories likely obsolete...

This, by the way, is the only reason why the 6.5 Creedmoor, which is quite slow and has rainbow ballistics, was able to transition from the paper punching fields to the hunting fields, although most hunting rifles are still adorned with MIL or MOA turrets that are - in my view - poorly adapted to dynamic hunting...

I will test a custom BDC turret in Africa on the Tiny Ten in September 2020 (hopefully!) or 2021, but I suspect that laser range finding technology and custom turret engraving of an individual iPhone ballistic app chart, have changed the game...

I resisted adjustable MIL or MOA turrets while hunting (although I use them to shoot steel at 1,000 yd) as long as they involved reading the dope chart to convert the distance to MIL or MOA correction, counting carefully the 27 or 43 clicks (for example) required, and not having an instant visual check of whether the turret is where it should be. This simply did not work in a dynamic setting. However, the direct engraving of actual distances on a custom turret calibrated to a load and a rifle has me tempted. I KNOW that the concept works, I used it on the FRF1 French sniper rifle in the early 1980's and it was deadly...

This being said, for new hunters forget about all that. Sight a decently flat shooting non-magnum caliber for its MPBR and keep their shots under 250 yd until they have proven they can shoot farther...

NWT · May 9, 2020

The 7mm/08 is a great round and we have shot a lot of white tails with the 140 gr Nosler Partitons. For Zebra and Kudu I would feel more comfortable with a 30.06 and 180grain Noslers or a .280 Rem or Ackley shooting 160gr Noslers. I have seen petite 5’2” women at the range handle large bore rifles and outshoot the men that were shooting with her. I think the key is start her out on some low recoil loads in the 30.06 / .280 using 120 grain bullets and a light powder charge until she gets comfortable with the rifle/scope and she gains confidence before presenting full power hunting loads.

Dr Ray · May 9, 2020

30/06 with 180 grain Bullets or a 270 with 130-140 grain Bullets.
The 270 has more energy and shoots flatter but there’s nothing like bullet weight.

BeeMaa · May 9, 2020

One Day... said:
This is a very fair question BeeMaa. I asked myself this question seriously before I committed to the .257 Wby.

The answer that I came with was: .25-06: 100 gr TTSX @ 3,200 fps and .257 Wby: 100 gr TTSX @ 3,600 fps.

While the 100 fps difference between .280 140 gr and 7 mm Rem Mag 140 gr can be mitigated by individual loads and rifles, I reckon that the 400 fps difference between .25-06 100 gr and .257 Wby 100 gr is substantially meaningful

However, is there anything the .257 Wby can do that the .25-06 cannot do? Absolutely not! But I personally liked the additional 30 yards of MPBR.

Truth be told, does it still matter as much today as it did yesterday?

I suspect that the answer is no. An accurate custom calibrated BDC (bullet drop compensation) turret for a specific load in a specific rifle, validated by actual chronographing of the load and actual shooting at the actual distances 100, 200, 300, 400 yd, and that only takes rotating without further thinking to 175, 250 or 325 (for example) after an accurate EHR (equivalent horizontal range) reading from a reliable range finder, makes flatter trajectories likely obsolete...

This, by the way, is the only reason why the 6.5 Creedmoor, which is quite slow and has rainbow ballistics, was able to transition from the paper punching fields to the hunting fields, although most hunting rifles are still adorned with MIL or MOA turrets that are - in my view - poorly adapted to dynamic hunting...

I will test a custom BDC turret in Africa on the Tiny Ten in September 2020 (hopefully!) or 2021, but I suspect that laser range finding technology and custom turret engraving of an individual iPhone ballistic app chart, have changed the game...

I resisted adjustable MIL or MOA turrets while hunting (although I use them to shoot steel at 1,000 yd) as long as they involved reading the dope chart to convert the distance to MIL or MOA correction, counting carefully the 27 or 43 clicks (for example) required, and not having an instant visual check of whether the turret is where it should be. This simply did not work in a dynamic setting. However, the direct engraving of actual distances on a custom turret calibrated to a load and a rifle has me tempted. I KNOW that the concept works, I used it on the FRF1 French sniper rifle in the early 1980's and it was deadly...

This being said, for new hunters forget about all that. Sight a decently flat shooting non-magnum caliber for its MPBR and keep their shots under 250 yd until they have proven they can shoot farther...

Agreed on the 400FPS difference.

On your comment "Truth be told, does it still matter as much today as it did yesterday?"
I would add one thing, ammunition development.

With the current line up of truly premium bullets, it has extended the effective range of some cartridges.
The 257WBY was released in in 1945, predating the Nosler Partition by 4 years and the 25-06 by 24 years.
The NP being the first "premium" bullet widely available in the late 1940's.
I've said before that the 257WBY was ahead of its time and most likely too fast ammunition of the day.
Where the 25-06 at the slower speeds was able to take advantage of better expansion.

Fast forward into the 1980's and beyond, and it's simply not the case.
Ammo development has closed the gap between the two cartridges.
The Swift A-Frame and Barnes TTSX (to name just a couple) have taken things to a new level.
Tougher bullets able to withstand the violence at impact and drive through an animal have made a very real difference.

Now, back to the OP's original question as it relates to this sidetrack.
Whatever cartridge you choose, pick a proper bullet to send down the barrel.
Shot placement and bullet construction will have smaller calibers punching above their weight.

However I will also caution to use enough gun.
Countries have requirements for minimum calibers or energy levels for certain species of game.
Your hunting list is not necessarily what you will be hunting.
This is Africa, an opportunities pop up for a once in a lifetime shot at an animal.

Above all, practice...practice...practice of the sticks and from hunting positions.
It will pay off when that monster Sable crosses in front of you.
Good luck.

Hogpatrol · May 9, 2020

@Divernhunter That young lady is amazing! Proves one doesn't need a SCHUTZENBOOMER to kill most plains game.

Rifle for Plains game

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