338 Winchester Magnum

Tanks said:

Well, I will have time to test the 200, 212 and 220 grain ELD-X and the Bergers. I will have a 1:8.5 twist so will be able to handle the heavier bullets.

Click to expand...

1:85" will certainly handle those 30 cal bullet lengths.
it might also cause some bullets to open up more than a 10 twist.
if all else fails, barnes is a fallback position.
berger will be the most prone to overexpansion.
bruce.

Tanks said:

I am of the same school in taking multiple rifles. For PG I am in the process of building a .300 RUM I think a 200 grain bullet at 3,150 fps will take care of any PG at any distance.

Click to expand...

A great choice! As we all know, dead is dead but it is fun to talk about the minor differences in our eyes, even if the animal hunted would never know the difference.

Viral_SIGness said:

Both great calibers, but from what I've learned about Africa hunting, they wouldn't be preferred choices. Seems they prefer lower pressures, to prevent extraction issues in the extreme heat. That's why the .416 Rigby is still so popular. The .416 Rem Mag and .416 Ruger (.416 Roy is a lot more powerful, but very high pressures) are nearly identical in power, but the huge Rigby case does it at much lower pressures

Click to expand...

This pressure thing is something I don’t get. The Rigby chambering was designed for cordite. Things changed, we no longer use cordite and pressures are no longer so erratic. The world moved forward. Anyone noticed we no longer add Tetraethyllead to fuel?

By modern standards 416Rem runs fairly standard pressures (62000psi CIP or 65000psi SAAMI). This is similar to 308Win (60191psi CIP) and just below 223Rem, 300 Win Mag and the African favourite 375H&H all of which are max 62366psi CIP. That’s right 375H&H (62366psi CIP 64000psi SAAMI) runs marginally higher pressures than 416Rem CIP or 1.5% lower than SAAMI specs. Now, how often do people complain about 375H&H not coping with African weather conditions? Personally I’ve never heard of anyone whinnying about 375H&H pressures yet pretty much identical pressures of 416Rem are a source of endless unhappiness. I just don’t get it.

To be honest the only complaints I ever heard in regards to extraction issues have been Weatherby cartridges.

Tanks said:

Well, I will have time to test the 200, 212 and 220 grain ELD-X and the Bergers. I will have a 1:8.5 twist so will be able to handle the heavier bullets.

Click to expand...

Nice! With that twist you are good to go. As far as Bergers, I just can't bring myself to use them. They were designed to stay off the shoulder (at least that's what they told me), but I prefer to take out a shoulder, and track less lol

bruce moulds said:

modern brass combined with sensible handloading practice will deal with those issues.
bruce.

Click to expand...

I agree 100%

Opposite Pole said:

This pressure thing is something I don’t get. The Rigby chambering was designed for cordite. Things changed, we no longer use cordite and pressures are no longer so erratic. The world moved forward. Anyone noticed we no longer add Tetraethyllead to fuel?

By modern standards 416Rem runs fairly standard pressures (62000psi CIP or 65000psi SAAMI). This is similar to 308Win (60191psi CIP) and just below 223Rem, 300 Win Mag and the African favourite 375H&H all of which are max 62366psi CIP. That’s right 375H&H (62366psi CIP 64000psi SAAMI) runs marginally higher pressures than 416Rem CIP or 1.5% lower than SAAMI specs. Now, how often do people complain about 375H&H not coping with African weather conditions? Personally I’ve never heard of anyone whinnying about 375H&H pressures yet pretty much identical pressures of 416Rem are a source of endless unhappiness. I just don’t get it.

Click to expand...

No one is whining about anything. Obviously I don't live in Africa, so I'm going off of what I've been told, and read in published stories and articles. I wasn't trying to bunch up your undies, just making conversation. There was an incident quite recently with a Ruger (can't remember if it was 375 or 416) where the guy got tore up by a Leopard when he couldn't extract the stuck cartridge. Don't quote me on this yet, I'll see if I can find it.

bruce moulds said:

you cannot compare the nosler partition with the swift aframe.
far be it from me to question dr Robertson, but the swift will kill better the faster it goes.
the nosler will blow its nose off more the faster it goes.
when this happens, the bullet can and often does, change direction, while the swift keeps going straight.
the swift expanded is heavier than the nosler in a similar condition, as the nosler has often lost 40% of its weight.
I have had a 210 n.p.338 fail to kill a pig that a 270 or 308 would have killed with sierra cup and core bullets.
a 250 gn bullet in 35 is at the heavy end, while the same weight in 9.3mm is mid weight.
a swift bullet in mid to heavy weight will be your friend driven hard, as it will expand relatively easily and quickly, but keep going straight.
shooting camels with 9.3x64 has revealed that speed is at least part of the formula for fast reliable killing.
the closer the target, the more sudden the death.
as good a shot as any is quartering facing you, and on the point of the shoulder.
the swifts have to go through massive bones there, and keep going.
the same bullet side on in the ribs is also deadly, yet nowhere as much resistance to the bullet exists.
I cannot speak of barnes on big game as I have only used them up to 7mm on camels.
in that context, a lighter barnes in a bigger calibre might be useful.
bruce.

Click to expand...

I’ve had nosler ballistic tip hit and go at a completely different direction like it hit the top of a rusa deer two inches below the spine and exited down at the opposite side at the are where the leg crosses the body.
I expected the billet to continue through to the other side near the spine but it didn’t. The bullet absolutely pulverized the far forequarter.

Viral_SIGness said:

No one is whining about anything. Obviously I don't live in Africa, so I'm going off of what I've been told, and read in published stories and articles. I wasn't trying to bunch up your undies, just making conversation. There was an incident quite recently with a Ruger (can't remember if it was 375 or 416) where the guy got tore up by a Leopard when he couldn't extract the stuck cartridge. Don't quote me on this yet, I'll see if I can find it.

Click to expand...

My underpants are comfortable enough, thanks for asking.

I never said You were whining, all I said was that the supposingly high CIP operating pressure of 416Rem (62000psi) is a frequent topic of complaints when 375H&H (62366psi) or returning to the original topic 338Win Mag (62000psi) is accepted as just fine. I’ve got no bone to pick here, my favourite big game cartridge - 470NE operates at much lower pressure but I don’t think it matters much today. The 375 and 416 Ruger chamberings run identical pressures to 375H&H. I’m not doubting the fact someone got hurt by a Leopard when hunting with these. Obviously in the case you mention something went terribly wrong, but it seems improbable it was the cartridges’ designed operating pressure as most of cartridges used today operate in the same pressure range with no issues.

No need to buy, will give a few rounds to you and a few brass cases..if you are needing it urgently I can courier to you..if not that urgent I can send it to you via one of our visiting members to SA...the brass will weight and not take up space in a parcel ..maybe it is better to courier it to you..

Viral_SIGness said:

I'd like to add to what you said. As far as deflection, my friend and I did some pretty extensive testing, intentionally shooting through brush. We used a .308 and a .300 Win Mag, tried max loads, we tried minimum loads. We also tried round nose vs Spitzer. There was no discernable difference between any of them. A bullet is going to deflect no matter what you do.

Click to expand...

Interesting observation... In Richard Harlands book, The Hunting Imperative , Richard dedicated a complete chapter to this phenomenon, in Zimbabwe/Mozambique and other African countries a tree know as the "Msimbiti or Iron wood (msimbi= iron in Nguni/Xhosa /Shangaan ( need to get the Latin description) ..this tree really has the capability of deflecting even the large/super bore bullets since they grew into dense forests and de-flexion of solid bullets will occur ..Richard Harland described hair-raising events of a cow elephant charging them in this dense Msimbiti forest where he shot the cow with the .458 Mannlicher a foot away from the cows fore-head...the cow was not visible within five paces of them, so dense these trees grows..
This was a hair raising experience and he had to kill twenty elephant cows that charged them to try and kill them...

Gert Odendaal said:

Interesting observation... In Richard Harlands book, The Hunting Imperative , Richard dedicated a complete chapter to this phenomenon, in Zimbabwe/Mozambique and other African countries a tree know as the "Msimbiti or Iron wood (msimbi= iron in Nguni/Xhosa /Shangaan ( need to get the Latin description) ..this tree really has the capability of deflecting even the large/super bore bullets since they grew into dense forests and de-flexion of solid bullets will occur ..Richard Harland described hair-raising events of a cow elephant charging them in this dense Msimbiti forest where he shot the cow with the .458 Mannlicher a foot away from the cows fore-head...the cow was not visible within five paces of them, so dense these trees grows..
This was a hair raising experience and he had to kill twenty elephant cows that charged them to try and kill them...

Click to expand...

I'm new here, so I'm not familiar with your postings. Was the thumbs up, sincere or sarcasm? LoL

Viral_SIGness said:

I'm new here, so I'm not familiar with your postings. Was the thumbs up, sincere or sarcasm? LoL

Click to expand...

Viral_SIGness....you will never find sarcasm/foul language /de-generative re-marks on this forum..no need for it here ...too busy to discuss hunting related issues on this forum...

Back to the topic....to the members /owners of the .338 WM...as everything evolve it is not different with rifle calibers...the .338 caliber I got to know about was the .338 Lapua used primary by the military/law enforcement companies of the worlds...to me this was a caliber not mentioned in the same sentence as hunting, a few years later the American`s all time favorite .50 BMG...the same uses as the .338 Lapua ...military orientated..now a days I notice literature written by hunters using the .5o caliber to hunt with at long distances...the same set up two skilled shooters team up ....so the .338 caliber in my mind is a long distance hunting tool...for use on men or beast...Still in my mind , with the premium bullets /new technology I do not see why it can not be used like a bush caliber , heavy bullets at moderate muzzle velocities ..since few hunters has the skill of military operators ....I am fortunate to purchase the components of the .338 Imperial /Canadian Magnum designed reamer, re-loading dies /gauges from the originator , Aubrey White ....my aim is to try and build a long range shooting /hunting caliber on a modular aluminium chassis..my son wants to use this build as an engineering project for his studies using CNC technology /metallurgical composites ...designing/developing different composites for different parts of this from the ground up build...he plans to use such a design project as a Master`s degree in Mechanical/Metallurgical Engineering ...it maybe a fun project while he study..

Gert Odendaal said:

Viral_SIGness....you will never find sarcasm/foul language /de-generative re-marks on this forum..no need for it here ...too busy to discuss hunting related issues on this forum...

Click to expand...

I really like it here already. My name is Ken, nice to meet you.

I took my 338win mag on my 2 trips. Took everything from springbok and baboon to Kudu and Eland. Took blue and black wildebeest, zebra, impala and much more. I used hand loads of 225gr Swift A-Frames and never had to track a single animal. Animals were spot and stalk at ranges of 125 to 480 yards using a laser rangefinder on many shots.
On one trip my 2nd rifle was a 30-06 and another I used a 257W.
My daughter used her 257R for everything. She shot warthogs, zebra, Impala Red Hartebeest, Kudu also all one shot kills from 135 to 410 yards

Viral_SIGness said:

I really like it here already. My name is Ken, nice to meet you.

Click to expand...

Welcome Ken, I believe you will enjoy discussions on this forum..

the 318 westley richards was considered an excellent round for all african game. i suspect the 338 would be at least a ballistic equal, and probably superior.

i have used the 338 winchester extensively in alaska and have shot everything from fox and deer to brown bears and moose with it. i used barnes original x bullets and they never failed me. i think the triple shock bullets are superior to the original x bullet. the 338 win is a fine cartridge and with good bullets and proper shot placement will never disappoint. i would not hesitate to shoot anything from an eland on down with one.

like so many things that we fuss about on this forum.....it is entirely adequate.

bruce moulds said:

8x68 might have the same problem as the 9.3x64.
that is that most bullets in that calibre are meant for slower cartridges, and can self destruct driven faster.
this is not a problem if you are aware of it and choose your projectles accordingly.
bruce.

Click to expand...

Bruce, mentioning the 8x68S /9.3 x 64 needs for high quality premium bullets like Barnes Triple shock I presume?? Thinking on the 9.3 x 70 caliber for the future I wonder what premium bullets will be functional for the caliber...I am currently in a process of sourcing more technical data in regards to the 9.3 x 70 caliber from a person in Belgium who build this caliber into rifle already , making bullets for it as well..I asked him if possible to share re-loading data for this caliber with me..I am awaiting his response..he found the 9.3 x 70 caliber reamer blue print, original copy , he is duplicating it and will email it to me shortly..are there any members who are interesting in building this caliber as well..please let me know..I am sure it can be made in a great building project on the forum..

Here is more information in regards to the Msimbiti tree /forests in Zimbabwe /African countries...the tree is known as in Afrikaans language as :Lebombo Yster hout( a derivative of the mountain range to the eastern part of South African Lowveld , into Mozambique all along the eastern part into Africa... Lebombo Mountain range ..) Anrostachys johnsonii, Lebombo Ironwood, Masambeet, Msimbi as been noted in the Hunting Imperative book written by Richard Harland..
It is medium to tall tree growing in forests formations..very dense...
Uses :
Wood id extremely hard, heavy, extremely durable especially in regards to wood borers and termites ...
Therefore wood use for :
construction work, railway sleepers, industrial flooring , any woodwork practice like wood turning on a lathe , furniture, and building of bridges..
Surface of wood can be polished to a smooth appearance ...it is extremely hard on machinery when processing it..usually the wood will get burning marks when sand /cut with machinery operations.
I knew it by the name "Jara wood " I used to make clocks with it ..it gives a bitter taste in your mouth and stains my hands to a black sooth ..it cuts clean if your blades as new and sharp..the seeds are pressed to obtain oils use in skin products.

Opposite Pole said:

This pressure thing is something I don’t get. The Rigby chambering was designed for cordite. Things changed, we no longer use cordite and pressures are no longer so erratic. The world moved forward. Anyone noticed we no longer add Tetraethyllead to fuel?

By modern standards 416Rem runs fairly standard pressures (62000psi CIP or 65000psi SAAMI). This is similar to 308Win (60191psi CIP) and just below 223Rem, 300 Win Mag and the African favourite 375H&H all of which are max 62366psi CIP. That’s right 375H&H (62366psi CIP 64000psi SAAMI) runs marginally higher pressures than 416Rem CIP or 1.5% lower than SAAMI specs. Now, how often do people complain about 375H&H not coping with African weather conditions? Personally I’ve never heard of anyone whinnying about 375H&H pressures yet pretty much identical pressures of 416Rem are a source of endless unhappiness. I just don’t get it.

Click to expand...

@Andries Marais can you shed some light on this?

so what does jarra wood have to do with the 338 calibre?
bruce.