Blaser R8 for Dangerous Game

Opposite Pole · Apr 18, 2020

Opposite Pole said:
A self repeating firearm cycles the action by itself. R8 cannot be operated in such manner.

If you cycle the action with the trigger depressed the bolt will close with firing pin released and protruding out of the bolt face. Should you do so with a live round in the mag it will strike the primer upon closing the bolt. Due to design of the rifle the primer is not impacted until the bolt is locked. However, how one would do all of it under normal circumstances I don’t know, as normally one cycles the action with the same hand one controls the trigger with.

TokkieM said:
I agree, but by law here if you can keep the trigger depressed and the rifle will fire this way it is seen as a semi auto, I don't make the laws but I understand their way of thinking.

Here’s a link to a video I just recorded. I took the barrel off and cycled the bolt with my finger off the trigger and then I pressed the trigger and cycled the action with the trigger pressed, as you can see upon locking the action firing pin protrudes from the bolt face.

If this doesn’t convince you I’m not sure what will. Keep in mind that for the primer to go off impact has to be quite severe so you’d have to really slam that bolt home while keeping pressure on the trigger.

BeeMaa · Apr 18, 2020

TokkieM said:
I agree, but by law here if you can keep the trigger depressed and the rifle will fire this way it is seen as a semi auto, I don't make the laws but I understand their way of thinking.

I live in the US and I understand you do not.
Can you provide a legal reference for your Governments definition of semi-auto?

I will say that I agree with @Opposite Pole on this, but what I believe matters very little.
Gov't officials are often not in tune with how things really work.
They also tend to get complicated in their definitions, when things are really much more simple.

Red Leg · Apr 19, 2020

TokkieM said:
I agree, but by law here if you can keep the trigger depressed and the rifle will fire this way it is seen as a semi auto, I don't make the laws but I understand their way of thinking.

Really? in which country, Sweden or RSA, is the R8 considered a semi-auto for licensing?

Even for a bureaucrat, this makes no sense. Even if one is, let's say, right handed, and ambidextrous enough to hold the trigger down with the left hand while slamming the bolt forward with the right, the action is still being operated manually. That defies the definition of semi-automatic in any language. So, I am genuinely curious. Does Sweden (I know the answer for South Africa) actually list the Baser R8 as a semi-automatic firearm?

Fastrig · Apr 19, 2020

Red Leg said:
Really? in which country, Sweden or RSA, is the R8 considered a semi-auto for licensing?

Even for a bureaucrat, this makes no sense. Even if one is, let's say, right handed, and ambidextrous enough to hold the trigger down with the left hand while slamming the bolt forward with the right, the action is still being operated manually. That defies the definition of semi-automatic in any language. So, I am genuinely curious. Does Sweden (I know the answer for South Africa) actually list the Baser R8 as a semi-automatic firearm?

Was thinking the same thing. Bureaucrats are probably some of the densest forms of life on the planet, but don’t know if they are quite that dense.

BeeMaa · Apr 19, 2020

I suppose it would make the Winchester 1897 shotgun a semi-auto as well...seeing as you can slam fire it.
Bureaucrats

Opposite Pole · Apr 20, 2020

I don’t know of any bolt action rifle that is different to R8 in this regard. Close the bolt while holding down the trigger and firing pin is released. I accept that I have not handled every action ever made but every single one I ever handled worked that way. This actually includes my K double rifle too.

Ed Lally · Apr 20, 2020

So, we have a video showing the exposed firing pin in an R8 but no proof it will cause the rifle to fire. How about a video showing an R8 being "slam-fired". There isn't one is there?

mark-hunter · Apr 20, 2020

That would be interesting to see.

Opposite Pole · Apr 20, 2020

I think it stands to reason that an impact of firing pin on the primer can cause ignition, this is precisiely how firearms work. I’ve taken the above video to demonstrate that holding the trigger down while closing the bolt release the firing pin. Again, this is not unique to R8. Majority, if not all bolt actions function that way. Close the bolt while pressing the trigger and firing pin is released.

Red Leg · Apr 20, 2020

Opposite Pole said:
I think it stands to reason that an impact of firing pin on the primer can cause ignition, this is precisiely how firearms work. I’ve taken the above video to demonstrate that holding the trigger down while closing the bolt release the firing pin. Again, this is not unique to R8. Majority, if not all bolt actions function that way. Close the bolt while pressing the trigger and firing pin is released.

You will still find the occasional PH or guide who wants their client to carry a round in the chamber, but "uncocked" by the above method. One can hardly make a rifle more unsafe than having an exposed firing pin riding on a primer. And as you note, as far as I am aware, all bolt actions behave just like that.

Ed Lally · Apr 20, 2020

I am interested this issue as I hunt almost exclusively with my R8. Pulling the trigger on a firearm under normal conditions releases the firing pin which is held back against a compressed spring. The spring forces the firing pin forward and its mass x its velocity (momentum) strikes the primer with sufficient force to cause ignition. We all know that. The question is: Can one close the bolt fast enough to create the necessary velocity and therefore momentum to cause the primer to ignite. Another factor is that the firing pin spring, after firing, is in a relaxed position and is not putting significant pressure on the firing pin. This reduced pressure may allow retraction of the firing pin as it strikes the primer, lessening the impact on the primer and perhaps not causing ignition. All this theorizing is fine but provides no answer. Let the proponent of this theory video it actually happening, otherwise, nothing is proven and all is speculation.

sierraone · Apr 20, 2020

I'm a little confused here. Why would anyone hunt with a rifle in this condition. Always in my life, when I leave the truck or camp and am hunting, a round is chambered with the rifle on safe.

BeeMaa · Apr 20, 2020

sierraone said:
I'm a little confused here. Why would anyone hunt with a rifle in this condition. Always in my life, when I leave the truck or camp and am hunting, a round is chambered with the rifle on safe.

I do not know how the collective here at AH would feel about that.
What I would say, is discuss it with your PH and go from there.
If they are comfortable with your firearm safety, they will let you know.

We traveled in the truck with the rifle magazines loaded and chambers empty.
When we got out to do a stalk, the chamber was loaded and safety clicked on.
We were hunting with a CZ550 and a Savage 110.
Now that we have R8's this will be modified only in decocking the rifle after loading.
We never put a rifle on the truck or walked into camp with a round in the chamber.

Fastrig · Apr 20, 2020

sierraone said:
I'm a little confused here. Why would anyone hunt with a rifle in this condition. Always in my life, when I leave the truck or camp and am hunting, a round is chambered with the rifle on safe.

That’s the way I’ve always done it as well, chambered and safety on. The R8 lets you unlock the rifle, which is clearly an excellent safety feature, but never had a problem with a round chambered and safety on with any rifle I’ve carried. I do like how my Mauser M12 locks the bolt with its three-way safety and believe it blocks the pin/trigger from engaging when in that locked position, need to double check that though.

Fastrig · Apr 20, 2020

BeeMaa said:
I do not know how the collective here at AH would feel about that.
What I would say, is discuss it with your PH and go from there.
If they are comfortable with your firearm safety, they will let you know.

We traveled in the truck with the rifle magazines loaded and chambers empty.
When we got out to do a stalk, the chamber was loaded and safety clicked on.
We were hunting with a CZ550 and a Savage 110.
Now that we have R8's this will be modified only in decocking the rifle after loading.
We never put a rifle on the truck or walked into camp with a round in the chamber.

Leave the truck/camp, load. Return to truck/camp, unload....that’s just common sense. But that’s getting to be a super power now-a-days, so maybe some need to be retrained every day after lunch on gun safety...can see where a PH would be cautious.

Ed Lally · Apr 20, 2020

I agree with BeeMaa. Best safety procedure.

sierraone · Apr 20, 2020

Agree with you on the loading the truck to drive to the hunting area. If my memory is correct. The rifle must be completely unloaded and cased when driving down any hard ball road. Once we left the highway, we would stop and exit the vehicle, uncase the rifle and load it including a round in the chamber and on safe. Once we were ready to leave the hunting area and hit the highway for our return to camp, completely unload and case the rifle. This is the way it worked on my two previous trips to S.A.

BeeMaa · Apr 20, 2020

Fastrig said:
Leave the truck/camp, load. Return to truck/camp, unload....that’s just common sense. But that’s getting to be a super power now-a-days, so maybe some need to be retrained every day after lunch on gun safety...can see where a PH would be cautious.

Yes, common sense is getting to be more and more...uncommon.
Truthfully, it's pretty sad that it's the case.
And I'd take no offense if my PH were to ask me, even if it were every day.
We all have a job to do and a safety reminder I'll take every single time.

Opposite Pole · Apr 21, 2020

Ed Lally said:
I am interested this issue as I hunt almost exclusively with my R8. Pulling the trigger on a firearm under normal conditions releases the firing pin which is held back against a compressed spring. The spring forces the firing pin forward and its mass x its velocity (momentum) strikes the primer with sufficient force to cause ignition. We all know that. The question is: Can one close the bolt fast enough to create the necessary velocity and therefore momentum to cause the primer to ignite. Another factor is that the firing pin spring, after firing, is in a relaxed position and is not putting significant pressure on the firing pin. This reduced pressure may allow retraction of the firing pin as it strikes the primer, lessening the impact on the primer and perhaps not causing ignition. All this theorizing is fine but provides no answer. Let the proponent of this theory video it actually happening, otherwise, nothing is proven and all is speculation.

My original posts regarding this topic were only aimed at proving that holding down trigger while closing the bolt on a bolt action releases the firing pin.

However, all theories aside I’m now rather curious whether or not the rifle can be made to fire this way. I’ll check it. Once rifle ranges are reopened I’ll do an experiment. I’ll tie the trigger down with a zip tie and will chamber a primed but unloaded case and will slam the bolt shut. As this is operating the rifle beyond its design and normal operating procedures and I like my 10 fingers I will use this safety precaution. This will be identical in effect to using a normal loaded round. If anyone has an open range and an R8 available and wishes to participate let me know the results of your experiment, we’ll have a larger test sample.

Fastrig · Apr 21, 2020

Opposite Pole said:
My original posts regarding this topic were only aimed at proving that holding down trigger while closing the bolt on a bolt action releases the firing pin.

However, all theories aside I’m now rather curious whether or not the rifle can be made to fire this way. I’ll check it. Once rifle ranges are reopened I’ll do an experiment. I’ll tie the trigger down with a zip tie and will chamber a primed but unloaded case and will slam the bolt shut. As this is operating the rifle beyond its design and normal operating procedures and I like my 10 fingers I will use this safety precaution. This will be identical in effect to using a normal loaded round. If anyone has an open range and an R8 available and wishes to participate let me know the results of your experiment, we’ll have a larger test sample.

I'm not sure that will actually work, don't the bolt heads rotate and lock into the barrel on the straight pull rifles? I'll have to look more closely at my Rx Helix but I thought that's how they functioned...believe the bold head has to lock into place before the pin can engage, but not certain about that....interesting experiment, never even thought about doing something this in theory or in reality

Blaser R8 for Dangerous Game

Opposite Pole

BeeMaa

Red Leg

Fastrig

BeeMaa

Opposite Pole

Ed Lally

mark-hunter

Opposite Pole

Red Leg

Ed Lally

sierraone

BeeMaa

Fastrig

Fastrig

Ed Lally

sierraone

BeeMaa

Opposite Pole

Fastrig

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