Daily Rates, Trophy Fees, and price negotiations

VonJager said:

Are outfitters willing to come down from posted prices when negotiating with interested clients? They pay a percentage when a booking agent gets them a booking, so is their wiggle room in a dealing with an outfitter/PH directly?

In today's economy I think it is only good business to try and get a good deal. House prices, car prices, and even some day to day purchases can be haggled or negotiated, so I asked myself why not safaris?

I know some outfitters donate hunts, or advertise reduced price hunts, but is their an unspoken rule about not asking upfront for a discount? Could an agreement to hunt a certain number, or certain species like an unpublished package deal end up saving the hunter some money, and help the outfitter solidify a booking?

How does an outfitter view a prospective hunter asking for a discount(not some insane lowball offer?) Is this common in the industry? Have you given or received a discount beyond a published(flyer, website) package price?

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I can't say I've ever negociated a price on a safari. However I often do wonder why prices vary so much. I run a company myself so am well aware of the many costs involved in running a business that your customers will never realise or even understand in some cases.

But I wish I knew why some RSA outfitters charge just $25 for a black backed jackal while others may charge $200. My friend charges $50 for a baboon whilst I've seen others charge $300. You can't compare prices of hunting in RSA with Tanzania, but the differences can be several hundred percent amongst outfitters in the same country. I wish I knew why!

As has been said before, hunting african game is always going to be a costly affair. But there are ways to keep costs down. Hunting cull animals makes a large difference. My first ever RSA hunt consisted of a package of 'representative' animals on a huge RSA concession. I took a blesbok which qualified for Rowland Ward status and a blue wildebeest that would qualify for an SCI medal.

6 days 1 x 1, with one blue wildebeest, one black wildebeest, 3 blesbok and a springbok cost me around $2250. Considering two of those animals were genuine trophies I'd call that good value.

The same outfit was offering cull blesbok for around $150 and cull springbok for around $105. I can't remember what the cull charges for wildebeest were, but they were not that much more. Obviously most people want high quality trophy animals. But as an introduction to african hunting I think this kind of deal is great.

I must agree on the "cull" (management) animal prices, it can shrink the price of an entire trip by $1000s.
But when it comes to negotiation, no one will just give a discount, always ask, it might be 5% it may be 10% but I am sure most would be willing to give a bit of movement. What irks me though as an outfitter is when other outfitters find out what your quoted price is and give the potential client 15% below your quoted price.

A few of the blokes have said, we have a minimum, but our max prices are very close to that min price.

I was taught a saying by one of my mentors in the industry; "The bitterness of a bad safari will outlast the sweetness of a great price".

I was taught a saying by one of my mentors in the industry; "The bitterness of a bad safari will outlast the sweetness of a great price".

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You have got that right!!!

My outfitter offered me a good deal on the next hunt. Trophy fees and day rates won't be discounted that much but he said he would work with me on the airline flight. Like I try to get the cheapest flight and he will try to work with the dates. Also he said I would not need a deposit and could pay for everything when I got home with a bank wire. I don't know if I could be that trusting myself. I wonder if I could just use his computer and do the bank wire there as I can set up the bank before I get there. Anybody do that?

It always amazes me how good the accomodations and vehicles are on every safari I've been on. These outfitters/PHs are working in what could be called 3rd world arenas with many obstacles in their way yet they put out a world class product most of the time. IT TAKES MONEY TO DO IT. I've always gone at the published rate (although I have on occasion shopped for a good published rate and I have had "discounted offers in animals and in 1 case, my wife free as I brought 4 other hunters with me). You do get what you pay for. It's all been said before, you can ask but you may not find what you want with everyone. The memory lingers long after the price is forgotten. After 5 safaris I can say I believe that.
IF YOU GO ONCE-YOUWILL GO AGAIN-DEAL WITH IT

lwaters said:

My outfitter offered me a good deal on the next hunt. Trophy fees and day rates won't be discounted that much but he said he would work with me on the airline flight. Like I try to get the cheapest flight and he will try to work with the dates. Also he said I would not need a deposit and could pay for everything when I got home with a bank wire. I don't know if I could be that trusting myself. I wonder if I could just use his computer and do the bank wire there as I can set up the bank before I get there. Anybody do that?

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I am going to look into paypal in the next couple of days, does anyone have any clue how it works? I would look at credit cards, but besides the fees being to high, I would not want to have the guilt on my shoulders if someone racks up a ton of debt on their credit card. Everyone knows how hard it is to get rid of credit card debt, never mind the interest on it.

Hotfire Hunting Safaris said:

I am going to look into paypal in the next couple of days, does anyone have any clue how it works? I would look at credit cards, but besides the fees being to high, I would not want to have the guilt on my shoulders if someone racks up a ton of debt on their credit card. Everyone knows how hard it is to get rid of credit card debt, never mind the interest on it.

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Yes you can have a Paypal account . No problem to open that . You have to list a seperate acoountbto transfer your money to. I am not sure if it changed but till a while back you could not send. Money to a RSA account. I know there were some article at some stage that FNB was getting someting going with Paypal. Maybe best to find out from them . The fees are also quite high receving money. About 3 % last tim I looked. Good Luck !!

Hotfire Hunting Safaris said:

I am going to look into paypal in the next couple of days, does anyone have any clue how it works? I would look at credit cards, but besides the fees being to high, I would not want to have the guilt on my shoulders if someone racks up a ton of debt on their credit card. Everyone knows how hard it is to get rid of credit card debt, never mind the interest on it.

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Just checked !!! You can do this through FNB. Paypal charges between 2.5 and 3.9 % of the incoming transaction and FNB charges 1.5 %. This means it will cost you between 4-5.4 % of the transaction. The bad news is you will also loose on a bad exchange FNB will give you. YOu could pretty much look at 10 % total.

We wire money to Africa and within the States almost every week. Our bank had us fill out a form which allowed us to wire money via our online banking. Allows us to wire funds from our laptop regardless of where we are at. Simply need to have access to an internet connection. My wife handles this but I believe it took here a few days for the bank to get it approved. Worth checking into.

tim416 said:

We wire money to Africa and within the States almost every week. Our bank had us fill out a form which allowed us to wire money via our online banking. Allows us to wire funds from our laptop regardless of where we are at. Simply need to have access to an internet connection. My wife handles this but I believe it took here a few days for the bank to get it approved. Worth checking into.

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we have the same at our office, and i know a lot of people who have online banking set up so they can do everything from their computer. i have telephone banking set up with my bank so all i need is cellphone/landline or a satphone, and with the passwords and my security code i can speak to my bank 24hrs a day from anywhere and get money transferred etc.

Safari Afrika said:

Yes you can have a Paypal account . No problem to open that . You have to list a seperate acoountbto transfer your money to. I am not sure if it changed but till a while back you could not send. Money to a RSA account. I know there were some article at some stage that FNB was getting someting going with Paypal. Maybe best to find out from them . The fees are also quite high receving money. About 3 % last tim I looked. Good Luck !!

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I found that out the hard way last year Despite speaking directly with a Paypal service rep and assurances that it would be no problem it did not work and there was a hold put on my account because of it. This made for a tense day of bank hopping (instead of a nice relaxing last day in Africa) to finally find one that was able to do a simple transfer much to the releif of my PH who at that point must have been thinking I was a deadbeat. His account was with FirstRand bank.

tim416 said:

We wire money to Africa and within the States almost every week. Our bank had us fill out a form which allowed us to wire money via our online banking. Allows us to wire funds from our laptop regardless of where we are at. Simply need to have access to an internet connection. My wife handles this but I believe it took here a few days for the bank to get it approved. Worth checking into.

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I have done this on several purchases within Canada and it is great. I was not sure of the deal with international banking. Fast and easy.

So I looked into Paypal, the call center in Indonesia assured me that it is no problem now that they are partnered with FNB bank in South Africa and since I am not banking with FNB, surprisingly they have an agreement in place with the other RSA banks so I can get it. Easy...
My big concern is that it is going to cost about $100 per $3000 (3%) not much one would think but add it up over the year and you are looking at the same price as getting a credit card machine installed which has a monthly cost of $70 as well as an installation fee of $140. Still much cheaper to go the old fashioned route of transferring money.
For the chaps that go on safaris, would you be upset if the outfitter had to charge say 50% for the Paypal costs to you? Any Thoughts?

Hotfire Hunting Safaris said:

So I looked into Paypal, the call center in Indonesia assured me that it is no problem now that they are partnered with FNB bank in South Africa and since I am not banking with FNB, surprisingly they have an agreement in place with the other RSA banks so I can get it. Easy...
My big concern is that it is going to cost about $100 per $3000 (3%) not much one would think but add it up over the year and you are looking at the same price as getting a credit card machine installed which has a monthly cost of $70 as well as an installation fee of $140. Still much cheaper to go the old fashioned route of transferring money.
For the chaps that go on safaris, would you be upset if the outfitter had to charge say 50% for the Paypal costs to you? Any Thoughts?

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I am sure you meant 5 % . I would take 50 % any day !

Safari Afrika said:

I am sure you meant 5 % . I would take 50 % any day !

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i think patrick is talking about splitting the paypal and banks service charges on any payments 50 percent with the client. a lot of companies i.e. airlines now charge for the use of a credit card to help cover the card company charges.

Spike.t,

Correct, that is what I meant. Is it even fair to ask a person to pay for the bank charges?

Hotfire Hunting Safaris said:

Spike.t,

Correct, that is what I meant. Is it even fair to ask a person to pay for the bank charges?

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when i transfer money via my telephone banking i am asked if i want to pay costs both ends or just mine at my bank, i always pay both as if its rent or a purchase i am making i wouldnt be sending the correct amount required, as otherwise the receiving bank takes their charges from the arriving total. in your case i think its fair to split it 50/50 with the paypal situation, or if the client is making a bank transfer ask them to pay the costs at their bank and you swallow the charges at your end.. i know some will demand the client pay all costs so they receive the full amount, but that is obviously up to the individual.

I like using PayPal, I live in the credit card capital of the world. Many of the credit card transactions are processed here. I have had the opportunity to talk with many industry people, and they say PayPal. Has the best security in the world. I also have an uncle that was with one of the major credit cards and his department devised many of the safeguards that credit cards currently have. He also says,use PayPal when ever you can. Of course the people being in the credit card industry also say to pay your paypal account with a credit card so you then have double protection. PayPal and the credit card companies. Here in the US and from the same credit card people, tell me to be very careful with transactions in South Africa, as they see a lot of problems that seem to develop out of South Africa.

I have an account at Vanguard Mutual Fund Co. and they set up a direct link from my account to Reiser Taxidermy's account in Namibia at no cost to me. I sent the money to Wilco and he never mentioned if his bank charged him. I can leave his account linked to mine as long as I need to. African shipping are handling the shipping to the US but I don't know yet whether I pay them Wilco or Coppersmith in Dallas when they arrive. They will let me know when they are ready to ship and I quess I will find out then. Would be nice if I could just send the money to Reisers and they pay African shipping as they work together all the time or if Coppersmith offer a way.

most developing/3rd world countries plus others like sa are considered credit card fraud hot spots, so if you are going to use your cards when in these countries phone your card company first to advise when/where and how long you will be there. otherwise you might find your card is blocked when you try to use it .