Krieghoff Big Five vs. Heym 88 or 89 vs. Blaser S2

Which DR would you purchase between Krieghoff Big Five vs. Heym 88 vs. 89 vs. Blaser S2

  • Krieghoff Big Five

    Votes: 35 35.0%
  • Heym 88B

    Votes: 22 22.0%
  • Heym 89B

    Votes: 36 36.0%
  • Blaser S2

    Votes: 7 7.0%

  • Total voters
    100
Sure my dream is a 475 NE n° 2 or a 470 NE double rifle but I can't do it $$$.

At this moment I haven't yet hunted the elephant but it is one of my priority project to go to meet this species.
...

You said you have hunted buffalo. A tuskless elephant hunt is about the same cost of a buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe. One thing to consider.

http://www.cmsafaris.com/zimrates.htm
 

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I was asked if I could use or have just one double......

It would likely be a custom fit VC in 470 but for what I've owned and shot it would be hard to turn down a Heym 88 in 470 simply because I know that for the next several years I could have Champlin in Enid do ever what needed to be done to it! I've grown to like ejectors over extractors! If you choose to hunt DG in close quarters a big bore double may be the difference between life and death!

"Go BIG or go home"
 
VC round body... heym 89b...heym 88b ...chapuis.... In that order of choice ....as I think is known wouldn't consider the other ones..... :D

I am curious to see why you “wouldn’t consider the other ones”...in particular Kriegoff.
 
I am curious to see why you “wouldn’t consider the other ones”...in particular Kriegoff.

Simply don't like the looks or feel of. Them....as people have said they work but they don't do anything for me in the slightest......
 
Beautiful doubles are like beautiful women. Some like the redhead and some the brunette. And some the blond. If you have the firearm that you like, it is soo much better than anyone else's. Mine is a redhead who shoots a Krieghoff 470.
 
Beautiful doubles are like beautiful women. Some like the redhead and some the brunette. And some the blond. If you have the firearm that you like, it is soo much better than anyone else's. Mine is a redhead who shoots a Krieghoff 470.

You sure have a beautiful Krieghoff for sure, Ed. ;)
 
One Day..........great info, thanks for posting. I can tell you for sure, my favorite PH smiles when a client arrives with a K-gun.......and BeeMaa.....always wondered about that name........ (could be MoGu, I guess)........thanks for posting a great thread OP.....................FWB
 
BeeMaa, I still have a 89 GS and had a Red 99 RS. Plus an 85 grey market M6 I brought over from Germany. Such fun. I suspect your from Boston or at least eastern MA.
 
If I have to get another double to join my Gibbs .450-.400 3&1/4” I would search long and hard for another vintage British rifle, preferably in .450 NE, or in second place .470 NE, built on a Webley & Scott action with 26” barrels and splinter fore-end.

Second prize would be a Heym 89B. I hate the oversized beavertail fore-ends on the majority of new doubles, particularly the Krieghoffs.
 
I have been reading about more "affordable" DR lately. What piques my interests are mostly German DRs as I am not too familiar with French or Italian made DRs and I don't want to mortgage my house for a British DRs.

So between Krieghoff Big Five vs. Heym 88 or 89B vs. Blaser S2 which one would you pick? If you have any specific reason(s), I am all ears.

Regards,

yhc
yhc,
I looked at all the options a few years ago and the easy choice for me was the K gun in .470 with ejectors. At the time there were none of these for sale used and that tells me something. There were however some used ones with extractors for sale. I have a dealer in San Antonio, Alamo, and they were very helpful and knowledgeable about these guns. The K gun has a safety that when on disables the firing pins that plus the anti-doubling feature and I was sold!
I recently took it to JJ Perdue, a top gunsmith, and had it fitted for a Kahles red dot sight. I will post a report soon on this new development.
If you want a gun with the most advanced features and best resale value then the K gun is for you.
Philip
 
Hello yhc;

I own a Krieghoff Big Five in .470 NE and am very happy with it. It shoots very well (1.5" to 2" at 25, 50, 75 yards with left barrel in the left hole and right barrel in the right hole, i.e. it neither crosses nor diverges) both its regulation load (Federal Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer) and Hornday DGS / DGX Bonded.

Setting aside the personal notions of likes and dislikes, and summarizing objective characteristics:

Heym
  • Heym 88 and 89 are the "same" rifle, except the 88 has a definite German flair while the 89 was designed to be a British classic rifle lookalike. Either Heym are solid, proven, accurate rifles. The choice between the two is purely style.
  • On the technical side, all Heym double rifles are equipped with intercepting sears. This prevents the possibility of the rifle "doubling" on you (shooting both barrels together) but, ugly truth be told, most doubling incidents with American shooters are caused by the shooter wrestling with two triggers, not the rifle. I know that this statement will likely be controversial, but it has been shown time and again that rifles doubling with certain people do not double with others. 'nough said...
Blaser
  • Blaser S2 are characterized by an entirely different locking mechanism which is very ingenious and totally reliable, and by a different technique of joining the barrels at the muzzle. A Blaser S2 goes the opposite way from a Heym 89. While the 89 emulates a classic British rifle, the S2 clearly does not. Some love it. Some hate it. Blaser are solid, proven, accurate rifles.
  • The S2 does not have a traditional safety but a cocker/decocker mechanism. This allows the rifle to be carried fully loaded but fully safe since the striker springs are not under tension. Some love it. Some hate it. More about this later.
  • HOWEVER, what I personally believe killed the S2 is that its decocking mechanism automatically decocks both barrels whenever the rifle is opened, which means that in a quick reload the rifle needs to be manually recocked before it can be fired. Many, if not most, if not all - aside from dedicated S2 owners - see this as a fatal engineering flaw.
Krieghoff
  • The Krieghoff Big Five is a cross-over, in a way, between the Heym and the S2. Its mechanism and barrels are typical traditional double rifle engineering, but it offers a cocker/decocker mechanism. As noted, this allows the rifle to be carried fully loaded but fully safe since the striker springs are not under tension. As mentioned, some love it, some hate it. Krieghoff are solid, proven, accurate rifles.
  • The big difference between the S2 and the "K gun" - as it is affectionately nicknamed - is that the K gun decocker does NOT decock automatically when the rifle is opened. This makes a quick reload identical to all other double rifles quick reloads: break open, flick the empties out, dump two rounds in the breech, close the rifle, shoot. Many, if not most, if not all - aside from dedicated S2 owners - see this as a massive advantage over the S2. The classic discussion goes: "how many time in your life does this matter?" on one end, and "the only one time in your life it may matter may save your life" on the other end. I will let both sides happily argue the point...
Regarding safety vs. cocker/decocker in general, the argument goes as follows. On one end: "a classic safety is faster and smoother." This is undeniably true; it does take some physical effort to compress both barrels striker springs when cocking the rifle. On the other end, the argument goes: "as proven time and again by accidents in the bush, the "African carry" makes it dangerous to carry a fully loaded traditional double rifle, safety or no safety." This too is also undeniably true... This did not matter in the good old days when the rifle was carried by the gun bearer walking first and ahead of the hunter, so the hunter could just reach forward and grab the rifle from the bearer's shoulder, instantly ready to engage, but it does matter in modern days when three or four persons (1 tracker, 1 PH, 1 client, 1 apprentice or assistant PH) walk in single file each with a rifle on their shoulder aimed at the person ahead of them.

I personally do not suffer from arthritis in my right thumb, and I spent the time to acquire a new muscle memory when I transitioned from my previous pre-WW II Belgian Jules Burry .450 #2 with classic safety to my K gun .470 with cocker/decocker. Cocking the rifle when I shoulder it is now as automatic and as easy to me as flicking the safety on my sidelock double 20 gauge Merkel when after quails. I personally see the cocker/decocker as the safest option by far. I am personally not comfortable walking in front of someone who carries a fully loaded and cocked double rifle (or bolt rifle) on the shoulder, barrel(s) forward pointing at my back or head, and I know several PH who simply refuse to do it and ask the client to not load the rifle until the final approach. A S2 or K gun mitigates this issue. To each their own...



The two French double rifles you really want to also consider are:

Verney Carron
  • The VC is produced using the Demas design (VC purchased Demas) characterized by an action that features 3 parallel lumps & bites rather than one massive one. Whether this is actually stronger or provide any meaningful design advantage can probably be argued forever. Suffice it to say that VC are solid, proven, accurate rifles.
Chapuis
  • The "Dean" of Double Rifles dealers in the US, George Caswell of Champlin Firearms says of the Chapuis: "We feel so strong about these guns mechanically that we will take care of any problems for as long as you own it, except the wood. We have had every current made boxlock double rifle in our shop, have shot them all, worked on all, had all of them apart and we know for fact that you can't buy a better one for the money than a Chapuis. We regulate, re-joint, do triggers, re-barrel and hunt with and shoot a lot of double rifles. We flat know this is one tough, attractive, high precision, go to Africa and have money left for the second Buffalo type of gun. I challenge you to show me a better current double rifle for the money." This is no faint praise, and what else could I add...
I hope this was useful :)
You failed to mention that the K gun also has the anti doubling feature. A big selling point for me. I’ve heard many stories of Heym doubling but maybe they were older models.
Philip
 
I hate the oversized beavertail fore-ends on the majority of new doubles, particularly the Krieghoffs.

You can always order your rifle with a differently shaped, slimmer forend. I did and Krieghoff had no problem doing it. Here is my rifle with 470NE and 9.3x74 barrels.

1.jpg


2.jpg
 
You failed to mention that the K gun also has the anti doubling feature. A big selling point for me. I’ve heard many stories of Heym doubling but maybe they were older models.
Philip
Actually Philip I did not fail to mention it because Krieghoff rifles do not have an "anti-doubling feature" otherwise technically known as "intercepting sears." Heym rifles do, Krieghoff or Blaser rifles do not.

PS: to be 100% sure, I just called Krieghoff International in Ottsville, PA to verify ;)
 
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Right side of mine..
Krieghoff .470.jpg
 
Here is mine. I elected to have a non-engraved, blued receiver and single solid leaf rear sight...

One Day,

Would you mind sharing your thoughts for opting to have the single leaf rear sight?

Regards,
 

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