Krieghoff Big Five vs. Heym 88 or 89 vs. Blaser S2

IvW said:

Chapuis have real shite after sales service....in SA anyway, quite the opposite of VC who will also have your stock made to measure.

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Sorry to hear that. I haven't had the need for any service on my Chapuis. Hopefully having the Beretta world-wide network backing them up will improve Chapuis' service. I've always had excellent help from Beretta on my pistols. Never had a problem with any of my shotguns.

I have bought and inherited several double rifles! The S2 I have is by far the most accurate in 470NE and recoil is mild compared to the H&H 470 that was my dads! I sold a VC in 470 due to stock fit and have thought of having them build me a 450-400 with custom fit stock< they are very nice guns.
I've handled a Champuis and for the money they are a deal, having George & JJ available to service them or a Heym would cause me to lean that direction for my next one! Had a Kgun in 470 and would have kept it if the intelligent ejectors had been available when it was built! The safety features of the S2 and Kgun are great for the DG hunting styles practiced now compared to when my dad hunted Africa more than a half a century ago!

If you have never owned or driven a double rifle or sportscar the addiction for them makes Crack Cocaine addiction look easy to shake!

Surgeon1 said:

If you have never owned or driven a double rifle or sportscar the addiction for them makes Crack Cocaine addiction look easy to shake!

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Begging to add powerful bikes to the list

I cant comment on actual experience on the other two but I LOVE my S2. Feels great, shoots great, ergonomics lead to it pointing great and the recoil is well managed. It is VERY easy to mount optics too, has great triggers, and can be user regulated. Extremely accurate as well (under 1 MOA at 100 yards out of the same barrel and 1.5" or under between the two. Factory ammo, no load development yet, and no attempt to adjust regulation)

If I didnt find my dream S2, I likely wouldve gone the Krieghoff route as I really like the decocking safety feature they both have

One Day... said:

Begging to add powerful bikes to the list

View attachment 339521

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How do you think I got the name BeeMaa?
Look at the plate on the sidecar rig.

BeeMaa said:

How do you think I got the name BeeMaa?
Look at the plate on the sidecar rig.

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Totally awesome! Mine rides her own.



But we are digressing...

My apologies to the OP and others for the motorcycle detour.

If we are going to show bikes...

Hi,
Nice bikes but I prefer hunt rifles .

I have a lot of interest for this thread because I look for a double rifle caliber 375 H&H.

Red Leg said:

I own an S2 with 500-416, .375, and 30-06 barrels. I have killed buffalo at 60 yards with it and a plains game beyond 225. It is supremely accurate. It is designed to be used with ascope, and yet, also has truly superb open sights for follow-up.

I think the K-gun is equally good, but checked the Blaser because there are still some wonderful deals out there of new old stock on this unfortunately discontinued rifle.

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Red Leg,
I know is different rifles but for dangerous games, do you prefer your S2 or your R8 ?

Surgeon1 said:

I have bought and inherited several double rifles! The S2 I have is by far the most accurate in 470NE and recoil is mild compared to the H&H 470 that was my dads! I sold a VC in 470 due to stock fit and have thought of having them build me a 450-400 with custom fit stock< they are very nice guns.

I've handled a Champuis and for the money they are a deal, having George & JJ available to service them or a Heym would cause me to lean that direction for my next one! Had a Kgun in 470 and would have kept it if the intelligent ejectors had been available when it was built! The safety features of the S2 and Kgun are great for the DG hunting styles practiced now compared to when my dad hunted Africa more than a half a century ago!


If you have never owned or driven a double rifle or sportscar the addiction for them makes Crack Cocaine addiction look easy to shake!

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Surgeon1,
If you own only one double rifle for dangerous games, the S2 will be your choice ?

Thank you for your answers.

Good question.

If configured as a .375 for buffalo and plains game, then probably the R8. For ease of transport if no other. Were I leaving on an elephant hunt tomorrow, it would be the S2 configured as a 500/416. As a two barrel set, then maybe the S2. I did that in Mozambique with .375 and 30-06 barrels. Both worked perfectly.

Probably why I have both rifles.

Guépard said:

Hi,
...
I have a lot of interest for this thread because I look for a double rifle caliber 375 H&H.
...

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To me a 375 H&H is a bolt action caliber. If one is going to get a double rifle, especially considering the cost, I'd go with a real big bore that is suitable for any of the Big Five. Something that is pushing a 450 grain bullet at a minimum.

Tanks said:

To me a 375 H&H is a bolt action caliber. If one is going to get a double rifle, especially considering the cost, I'd go with a real big bore that is suitable for any of the Big Five. Something that is pushing a 450 grain bullet at a minimum.

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For which member of the big 5 is a .375 n0t "suitable"? What makes the old H&H so special is that it has likely taken more of all of them than all other calibers (yes, including elephant - at least post WWII) combined, and it is still suitable for PG out there a ways. And in a S2, one has a rifle that is accurate enough essentially to do anything a bolt action will do in .375. The choice is really between two really quick shots or two almost as quick with an immediate third. I could leave tomorrow (virus not withstanding) and take either for a full bag three weeks in Tanzania and never regret my choice. I will agree that a flanged cartridge is normally usually most of the time a "better" choice in a double, but the S2 seems to function with utter reliability with rebated rims.

For a pure tusker rifle, I can not argue with your recommendation. As I noted earlier, I would take my S2 configured as a 500/416 were I going on a pure elephant hunt. But I could just as easily take it as a .375 with equal expectation of success.

The R8, in standard sporter guize in .375 does make a lighter package than the S2. I personally prefer that a little. But both are superb choices in the caliber.

Red Leg said:

For which member of the big 5 is a .375 n0t "suitable"?
...

For a pure tusker rifle, I can not argue with your recommendation. As I noted earlier, I would take my S2 configured as a 500/416 were I going on a pure elephant hunt. But I could just as easily take it as a .375 with equal expectation of success.
...

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I have no issues with the .375. On my upcoming hunt in August (assuming it happens) it will be my plains game rifle. For leopard and buffalo I will either use my .458 B&M or a 500 NE double if I can regulate it in time with Cutting Edge bullets.

Yes, .375 can be used for all under perfect conditions but for elephant I'd rather have too much gun (if there is such a thing) than not enough. I've had an elephant (not the one we were tracking) jump out of a river bed at us at 15 meters (I measured afterwards) and I was glad to have had a .500 caliber rifle for a frontal brain shot.

I own only one rifle : a R93 with 3 barrels. I took buffaloes with the barrel 375 HH without problem. I havn't doubt on this caliber. Also on the rifle. I use it since 1996 on various species and differents countries (Africa and others)

Why not biggest caliber than 375 HH. I think for a hunter is perfect caliber : easy to shoot it, precision and penetration. Easy to find amunitions in all the countries you can visite for hunt and lot of bullet variety. All advices from the experienced PH I'm in touch are Ok with that.

Also, 375 HH is OK for other destinations and species out of Africa.
And perthaps more suitable for a budget like mine. If I buy a 470 NE for example, I can use it for elephant only and never more.

Why a double : because it is not reasonable. Only for the fun ...

Thank you for all your posts / advices and pleasure to read them

Well, I never said a big bore is good for everything. A scoped .375 bolt action rifle definitely is more versatile than a double of any large caliber. As long as you are under 150 yards I'd say you are good with a big bore double though it would be an overkill on a dik-dik

For me .375 as I mentioned earlier is a plains game rifle. I just like bigger calibers for DG, though I have taken zebras, elk etc. with a .416 as well.

And you are right in saying a double is for fun. Ballisticly my .500 bolt rifle is superior to the 500 NE double. I have already taken elephants with it, so for the future it is the double's turn.

Sure my dream is a 475 NE n° 2 or a 470 NE double rifle but I can't do it $$$.

At this moment I haven't yet hunted the elephant but it is one of my priority project to go to meet this species.

Thank you a lot for share your experience!

When seeing this I wanted a Krieghoff Big Five

mikecatt13 said:

can be user regulated.

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Is that in all calibers? K-gun can be self regulated in smaller calibers, I think the limit is 9.3 or 375. I have done it, it’s simple if time consuming.

Just to clarify.

For a visiting hunter, the 375 H&H is more than enough gun even for use on Elephant with the correct bullet for the task, even though it is considered to be the minimum.

If you are however responsible as the PH or guide on foot safari and elephant are part of the mix it would be foolish to consider the 375 H&H as ideal for the task.

In many places it would be considered a problem if you shot an elephant at less than about 10 yards if it was not wounded as while on foot safari or hunting something different and you have to stop a charge(at 10 yards or less).

For this reason large bore rifles in big bore calibers are used, which have a better chance of stopping the charge as at that distance you will only have one shot.

And yes, a visiting client is better off with a smaller but adequate and legal caliber starting from 375 H&H and preferable scoped and fitted with QD mounts, irrespective of all the hype and nostalgia that comes with a large bore double rifle fitted only with open sights.

Of course if the visiting hunter is totally competent with such a large bore double rifle and the use of open sights and the reloading of the rifle, by all means use it, if not pack the pride away and use something you are competent with.

Surgeon1 said:

If you have never owned or driven a double rifle or sportscar the addiction for them makes Crack Cocaine addiction look easy to shake!

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Having experience with sports cars, racing and rally cars as well as racing yachts I totally agree.

An added benefit of having dealt with the above is realising just how wonderfully affordable shooting is...