What would have been available for scopes in African gun shops in the 1960s and 1970s?

C. Stockwell · Feb 10, 2020

Hi all, first post, have a question:

If someone were to step into a African gun shop, say in Rhodesia or South Africa, around the time of the 1960s and 1970s, what brands of scope would have been available? I'm guessing brands like Zeiss Jena and Meopta would've been unavailable, or at least undesirable, because of the Iron Curtain. But what would have been around in Africa at the time, BSA, Leupold, Weaver, Kahles?

I ask because I'm building a period rifle that would've been in southern Africa at the time.

Thanks!

Ridgewalker · Feb 10, 2020

Sorry I have no clue, but welcome to the AH forum!
You might look through the old pictures on here. I think there are some threads about older historical PHes with photos.

Shootist43 · Feb 10, 2020

Weaver K-4 Scopes were extremely well thought of during that time frame. Whether their general approval reached Africa I don't know. I do know that they marry up quite well with my beloved 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mausers that were very popular at that time.

C. Stockwell · Feb 10, 2020

Ridgewalker said:
Sorry I have no clue, but welcome to the AH forum!
You might look through the old pictures on here. I think there are some threads about older historical PHes with photos.

Thanks for the tip; looks like Peter Hathaway Capstick was particularly fond of Bushnell scopes.

Wyatt Smith · Feb 10, 2020

Ask @Major Khan he was a PH in India and kept good notes on clients rifles.

Major Khan · Feb 10, 2020

The 2 most common brands of telescopic sights in the 1960s and early 1970s which were brought by my clients were :
1) Birmingham Small Arms
2) Weaver .
Around 70 % of all the rifles ever brought into India by my clients which had telescopic sights , were invariably furnished with Weaver telescopic sights .
I hope that l was of assistance.

Major Khan · Feb 10, 2020

Shootist43 said:
Weaver K-4 Scopes were extremely well thought of during that time frame. Whether their general approval reached Africa I don't know. I do know that they marry up quite well with my beloved 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mausers that were very popular at that time.

You could not be more accurate in your speculation , Shootist43.

C. Stockwell · Feb 10, 2020

Major Khan said:
The 2 most common brands of telescopic sights in the 1960s and early 1970s which were brought by my clients were :
1) Birmingham Small Arms
2) Weaver .
Around 70 % of all the rifles ever brought into India by my clients which had telescopic sights , were invariably furnished with Weaver telescopic sights .
I hope that l was of assistance.

View attachment 329358

Major Khan said:
You could not be more accurate in your speculation , Shootist43.

Very helpful, thank you! So something like the Weaver K4 would be appropriate.

How common were variable scopes back then?

Ridgewalker · Feb 10, 2020

The earlier K4s were made out of a brass body with smooth radiused transitions from the objective to 1” diameter and back up. Newer models had a much sharper transition.

Ridgewalker · Feb 10, 2020

It seems like the B&L (Bosch & Lomb, German owned then before Bushnell purchased them) was rather popular during the ‘50s and ‘60s. They made one of the first variables on the market, but the mount was what moved the scope instead of internal reticle adjustment.
Here, US, also a lot of scopes were only 3/4” diameter straight tube until the eye piece which was “belled” out. I had a Weaver J2.5 (as I recall) on a 257 Roberts at one time.

Shootist43 · Feb 10, 2020

C. Stockwell, if by chance you have a Weaver K-4 that needs a little TLC there is a company called Iron Sight that will completely refurbish it and install any reticle you want. Several years ago I read a post that said if a Weaver K-4 was being made today it would cost over
$800 dollars. Weaver scopes made in El Paso, TX were top of the line in their day.

HWL · Feb 10, 2020

C. Stockwell said:
Hi all, first post, have a question:

If someone were to step into a African gun shop, say in Rhodesia or South Africa, around the time of the 1960s and 1970s, what brands of scope would have been available? I'm guessing brands like Zeiss Jena and Meopta would've been unavailable, or at least undesirable, because of the Iron Curtain. But what would have been around in Africa at the time, BSA, Leupold, Weaver, Kahles?

I ask because I'm building a period rifle that would've been in southern Africa at the time.

Thanks!

Zeiss Jena (east) and Zeiss Oberkochen (west) was available, Kahles was, Schmidt & Bender's trademark was "Sornet"..... Swarovski made binoculars in the 60's and scopes under the trademark "Habicht" in the 70's.

Other Germany scopes came from Nickel, Hertel & Reuss, Gerard and Pecar of Berlin.

Beautyful painted window panes came from Japan under the Tasco label and some others.

HWL

C. Stockwell · Feb 10, 2020

HWL said:
Zeiss Jena (east) and Zeiss Oberkochen (west) was available, Kahles was, Schmidt & Bender's trademark was "Sornet"..... Swarovski made binoculars in the 60's and scopes under the trademark "Habicht" in the 70's.

Other Germany scopes came from Nickel, Hertel & Reuss, Gerard and Pecar of Berlin.

Beautyful painted window panes came from Japan under the Tasco label and some others.

HWL

Thanks for the info! I was curious about Schmidt and Bender because they were founded in 1957. At the time, Kahles was making the Helia and the Helia Super, correct? Is there a European equivalent to this website with old scopes for sale?

https://www.vintagegunscopes.com/

Red Leg · Feb 10, 2020

The Weaver K4 was likely the most popular scope of the period - North America, Africa, anywhere (ok - maybe not Europe

). However, introduced in 1954, I have always thought the Lyman All American series was the best made scope on this continent during that period.

Luvthunt · Feb 10, 2020

Yes, the Lyman All American 4x was a great scope for the time. Bushnell was just coming into their own in the early 60s. Weaver was market price leader and did have variables mid 60s but had fogging issues. Weaver’s fixed powers were reliable
ie for the price and as stated B&L did not have internal adjustments and you needed to use their mount to adjust for elavation and wind age. The B&L was an. Excellent scope.
Red field came into the market and was dominant for a brief period and along came Leupold and never looked back.

Desert Dog · Feb 26, 2020

My grandpa used Weaver K4's and K6's for everything in that period. I still have some of his original scopes!

zephyr · Feb 26, 2020

Gotta RedField Bearcub 4x that my Father used in the early 60"s on a Pre 64 Mod 70 375H&H that's sitting on a shelf

35bore · Feb 26, 2020

zephyr said:
Gotta RedField Bearcub 4x that my Father used in the early 60"s on a Pre 64 Mod 70 375H&H that's sitting on a shelf

Red field used to make one hellofa scope.

What would have been available for scopes in African gun shops in the 1960s and 1970s?

C. Stockwell

Ridgewalker

Shootist43

C. Stockwell

Wyatt Smith

Major Khan

Major Khan

C. Stockwell

Ridgewalker

Ridgewalker

Shootist43

HWL

C. Stockwell

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Red Leg

Luvthunt

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35bore

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