SHOTGUN: o/u or pump?

leslie hetrick said:

who gives a rats ass what the british do in the hunting field? I would think you would have had the shits of britian after the boar wars and the treatment your people suffered under them. we had a dust up ourselfs with the british and ran them out with ball and bayonet. if you want to join the upper crust and wear funny cloths go with what they want you to shoot, if not get a Remington wingmaster 12 ga pump. a shooter here, rudy echen shot 100 straight doubles with a 870 Remington 12ga pump and turned around and did it a second time with the same 870 pump 20 some years later. my general 12 ga is a reminton 1100 magnum with three extra barrels for trap-skeet-small game-deer bear. a set up like this with a Remington 870 would be cheaper to put together.

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You of course realize the boers were Dutch descendents?
If you take the time to research the history of Africa you will see that the Dutch played a major rule in the hostilities between the local tribes and english traders.

Many countries commited atrocities on foreign shores in those times the French ,Spanish and Portuguese all conquered territories at the expense of the locals it wasn't only the British.

Skinnersblade said:

atrocities .

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One man's atrocity is another's acceptable solution. It's just a matter of who's left to tell the story.

Roha,

As you can tell, everyone has their preferences.

I like all types and select which one I prefer based on what and how I intend to hunt, or shoot.

For clays, trap & skeet, arly and late dove season: I like an O/U or auto.

For small game: rabbits: an auto or S/S.

For squirrels, grouse, quail, & turkey: S/S, pump, or auto

For ducks & geese, and middle dove seasons: auto or pump

For deer: auto, pump, (S/S depending on location of hunt and other game available/ in season to huntease, quicker to change out shells).

The best thing about pumps;
1. You can change barrels from a smooth bore, able to use multiple chockes to a rifle bore with a scope.
2. More ammo in the magazine. (Should it be needed).
3. Convenient in a blind, and stalking game.

Another thing to consider: Get a shotgun that can shoot: 2 3/4 inch, 3 inch and 3 1/2 inch shells!

Grouse here in Wisconsin. Pheasant and Rabbit also. I have 4 pumps and 1 o/u. O/U is carried 99.9% of the time. It's the way it feels in our hands. The point is the key. I will take 2 confident shots over 5 moving parts shots any day of the week. As always practice is key and confidence even more so. O/U all day.. shoot with it and don't look back....

Ridge Runner said:

: Get a shotgun that can shoot: 2 3/4 inch, 3 inch and 3 1/2 inch shells!

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I have found this to not be good advice. The problem is that a 2 3/4" chambered gun can be light and nimble. 3 1/2" chambered guns will be heavier and subject to inertia. The Quail loads and Goose loads differ both in the cartridges themselves and the guns in which they are fired.

How did that semi colon turn into a sad emoji in my earlier post???

.....season to hunt: ease to change out shells).

Ray B said:

I have found this to not be good advice. The problem is that a 2 3/4" chambered gun can be light and nimble. 3 1/2" chambered guns will be heavier and subject to inertia. The Quail loads and Goose loads differ both in the cartridges themselves and the guns in which they are fired.

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Ray B,

I disagree with you as being bad advise:

1. The OP is wanting one shotgun

2. OP is deciding between O/U or pump. Inertia is only relevant to auto's.

Weight wise not much difference among pumps. When comparing weights between o/u vs pumps, o/u's are generally heavier.

Nimble: ????? What are you comparing 2 x 18 inch barrels to 1 x 30 inch barrel?

However, I will agree a 2 3/4 inch, 7/8 ounce dove load has less recoil than a 3 1/2 inch, 1 5/8 ounce goose load. The same as a 7/8 ounce, 2 3/4 inch slug has less recoil than a 1 1/8 ounce, 3 1/2 inch slug.

But then the same can be said when comparing recoil between a 375 H&H mag shooting minimum charged 250 grain bullets and max charged 300 grain bullets.

Your statement: "The Quail loads and Goose loads differ both in the cartridges and the guns in which they are fired."

What differences are you talking about?

Are you still trying to compare auto's (and bolt action) to the OP's pump or o/u?

Dah,..all pump and double barrel shotguns chambered in 2 3/4, 3, 3 1/2 inch is capable of shooting the lightest 2 3/4 inch shell to the heaviest of 3 1/2 inch shell.

A shotgun chambered in 2 3/4 inch is unsafe to shoot 3 inch shells. Dah!

A shotgun chambered in 2 3/4 & 3 inch can shoot either length safely, but a 3 1/2 inch shell will not load into a less than 3 1/2 inch chamber. Dah!

Double guns are just more classy than semi-autos or pumps. And side by sides are more classy than over and unders. I have owned semi-autos (Beretta), over and unders (Browning, Miroku, Beretta) and a side-by- side (AYA). All were very effective and did the job for which they were intended, but for pure class and style the AYA won hands-down.

I must admit the BPS is great for the blind. The bottom eject also helpful

Ray B said:

One man's atrocity is another's acceptable solution. It's just a matter of who's left to tell the story.

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That was the point I was trying to convey. No one nation is without skeletons by today's standards. It's unfair to judge a man any man by social conventions not of his time.

RR, the problem is one of a written conversation. In a face to face verbal conversation examples of each object could be shown and concepts explained and refined. Such is not the case with internet postings.

I am a side by side man through and through .


I have been using my 12 Bore double barreled side by side shot gun ( made in Belgium ) almost exclusively since 1959. It has double triggers , 3 inch chambers , extractors and 28 inch barrels ( The left barrel is fully choked. The right barrel is modified choke . ) It never failed in all the years of my life , 10 of which were spent as a professional shikaree in Allwyn Cooper Limited in Nagpur , India , guiding foreign clients for shikar .
I mostly use Eley cartridges in this gun for shot sizes up to BB . For triple A cartridges , l prefer the 2.5 inch Hull brand cartridges . When making my hand loaded spherical ball cartridges , l use Eley 3 inch Alphamax magnum cartridge cases .

I also own a semi automatic 12 Bore shot gun , which was gifted to me by a dearly deceased friend . While my Belgian shot gun satisfies all of my needs 100 times over , this 2nd shot gun certainly makes a welcome addition to my battery.



It is made by Wisco ( a German brand ) and has a 3 inch chamber and is fitted for multi choke tubes. For this shot gun , l am less picky with the ammunition which l feed it . I use mostly Winchester and Remington brand ammunition and sometimes Fiocchi , as well.
I also use 3 inch Brenekke Black Magic Slugs in this shot gun.



I have grown so accustomed to shooting a side by side shot gun , since 1959 that it is like 2nd nature to me . Thus , if l had to pick 1 , it would hands down be a side by side shot gun made by a continental gun maker.

I have also tried shooting many over under , pump action and single selective trigger side by side shot guns , which belong to my friends . While they are beautiful and fine weapons ... They are just not for me .

Major Khan,
I agree and have similar tastes and experiences. I've owned and/or shot all manner of pumps, semi autos and O/Us. Still the S/S with two triggers has been my favorite. The best upland shooting I ever did was with a S/S 16 ga two trigger. Nothing fancy nor expensive. Just pure instinctive shooting with a cheap Plain Jane gun.

I found my first shotgun when I was 9- literally. An old hammer break 16 ga. probably ca late 1890s-early 1910s. Learned to shoot with it. So the transition to a two trigger S/S was simple. The best long range waterfowl/large upland bird pass shooting I ever did, back in the day and for non-sporting, non-hunting reasons, was with a full choke, 3" 12 ga pump using factory Federal Premium, copper plated, buffered BBs. That gun shot well and seemed to point/track well but still not at all my favorite. Never could afford a fine European or Winchester S/S.

Pic is the foundling 16 ga

@fourfive8 are bikial doubles available in your area ? I've got a sxs 12 that I've been surprising happy with. I was very lucky in that father bought me an English double 28bore when I was a boy. But for longer shots and rougher use I find the bikial adequate.

@Skinnersblade, if referring to Baikal- yes. They have been common in the market here for quite a number of years. Somewhat recognizable appearance and design but I have no direct experience with them. Somewhere in my foggy memory from the 1980s, a friend purchased a shotgun directly from a company while in Russia and IIRC there was some connection between that company and design and the Baikal? Seemed like a well made, utilitarian gun. Other than that no info.

@fourfive8 That is the maker I was referring to I had misspelled the name my apologies. I wrongly assumed you we the op. I was unsure if Russian made arms were still importable into Africa given the political climate and Various sanctions posed against the Russians.

I really don't know about the import-export regs dealing with Russia. The friend I referred to was on the US shooting team for two Olympics, '84 and '88. He acquired that shotgun through that connection. Other than that I have no idea?

I was trying to stay out of this, but I can't. A man's shotguns should be a personal choice, but to have to choose just one! That's really personal. I have now and/or have had several side by sides, a couple of over/unders, some semi-autos, and quite a few pumps. Since SA laws make owning a semi-auto unlikely, the choice comes down to doubles of one flavor or another (s x s or O/U) or pumps. I only know what I would do if for some god-awful reason I could only own one shotgun. I would choose a Remington 870 pump--one of the nicely finished and blued ones, not the kind you see in Walmart stores--or a Browning BPS. The gun would handle both 2 3/4 and 3-inch shells (for some reason, the 3 1/2" versions I've handled seem clumsy to me, and I haven't felt the need for them). The gun would have a 28" barrel (because I hit better with a longer barrel), screw-in chokes, and I would also purchase a 24" rifled slug barrel. If the firearms restrictions wouldn't allow even the extra barrel, I'd still be fine with the 28" tube of either the Remington or the Browning. Both are beautifully made guns (the Browning is really pretty), they are fast-handling, point naturally--at least for most shooters--and will fire a second or third shot as quickly as a shooter can recover from recoil. I'd be fixed up for hunting quail and doves with light loads of #8s, ducks and geese with heavier shot, whether of lead, steel, tungsten, or whatever, and a 12 gauge 3" magnum shell holds 15 hardened, copper plated, OO buckshot--a load that stacks up deer like cordwood in the thick woods of the southeastern US. It will also handle slugs with pretty reasonable accuracy. Not as well as a dedicated slug barrel, but well enough to ensure lots of venison inside 50 yards or slightly more if the shooter takes time to learn his gun and load. You could even buy a screw-in rifled choke tube, for that matter. Having said all that in defense of my choice of one shotgun, I'll add that I hope I never have to make such a choice. I use my O/U guns frequently, and I'd miss taking out my side-by-sides. This spring, as in many springs past, an ancient L.C. Smith Ideal Grade will accompany me to the woods when the turkeys start gobbling. The gun's name is Elsie, of course, and she's just too damned pretty to leave behind. We've got a tradition going.

fourfive8 said:

Major Khan,
I agree and have similar tastes and experiences. I've owned and/or shot all manner of pumps, semi autos and O/Us. Still the S/S with two triggers has been my favorite. The best upland shooting I ever did was with a S/S 16 ga two trigger. Nothing fancy nor expensive. Just pure instinctive shooting with a cheap Plain Jane gun.

I found my first shotgun when I was 9- literally. An old hammer break 16 ga. probably ca late 1890s-early 1910s. Learned to shoot with it. So the transition to a two trigger S/S was simple. The best long range waterfowl/large upland bird pass shooting I ever did, back in the day and for non-sporting, non-hunting reasons, was with a full choke, 3" 12 ga pump using factory Federal Premium, copper plated, buffered BBs. That gun shot well and seemed to point/track well but still not at all my favorite. Never could afford a fine European or Winchester S/S.

Pic is the foundling 16 ga

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Great minds think alike , four five eight . I hear very little about the 16 Bore , being used by our brother American sports men . Back during my career , most of our American clients used to prefer the 12 Bore or the 20 bore . Our continental clients used to LOVE the 16 Bore .It is nice to see that you favor such an under rated little calibre .
By the way , the shot gun which you have shown in the picture... Is it made by “ Topper “ company ? We have a few of them lying around in the " 2nd hand rack " of our Bangladeshi fire arms shops. Ours are all 12 Bore , however .

Those wondering about the popularity of the 16 gauge popularity in the US should check out the website SixteenGaugeSociety.Com It will show that the 16 is not only surviving but thriving.