Big bore shooting effects on your body?

Honest questions calling for honest answers...

My personal training regimen is to shoot ~ 5,000 (yep, five thousand) rounds of .22 LR at a 6" steel plate standing off the sticks in the couple months of spring before going to Africa...

Truth be told, this is just as much my end of afternoon Sunday personal relaxation time, as it is my training time.

Why do I practice with a .22 LR ?

#1 full power center-fire rifle training can actually be counterproductive
Some people can actually develop a flinch without even realizing it and muscle-memorize a whole range of negative habits, but even if this does not happen, the reality is that the recoil of full power center-fire cartridges will actually hide a whole range of shooting mistakes. Because it has virtually no recoil, a full size .22 LR rifle will show you a trigger jerk, a breathing control issue, a rifle position mistake on the sticks, etc. A .300 or .375 will not. Never mind a .458...

#2 full power center-fire rifle training will burn your barrel and your wallet
50 to 80 rounds of full power center-fire firing once per week for 3 months (a dozen times) will put close to 1,000 rounds through your barrel. Depending on caliber and load, do it 2 or 3 years in a row and you will shoot out your barrel. Additionally, you will spend (depending on the ammo you shoot) $2,000 to $4,000. That is a Roan or Sable trophy fee at Huntershill...

#3 full power center-fire rifle training can have physiological consequences
Let us not even discuss hearing protection, it ought to be a given, right? Depending on the rifle weight and caliber you shoot, recoil can be harmful. For example, my Mauser 66 .458 Lott is objectively too light at 8 lbs 13 oz. Shooting more than a dozen rounds with it causes me a small headache, the sure medical sign of a mild concussion. This is not good. Additionally, a number of aging shooters fall victim of retina detachment under violent recoil. We, aging men, need to be careful I suppose...

Why would you inflict all of this to yourself?
The bottom line is that shooting form off the sticks is better practiced with low to no recoil rifles. I like the .22 LR myself because of its simplicity, but its negative side is that it limits practice to 150 yards. A .223 will extend the range to 300 yards with little negative impact on practically (a little more noise) or even the finances. To each their own.

Nonetheless, I personally find that getting to near 100% hits with a .22 LR on a 6" steel plate at 150 yards standing off the sticks is all the training I need. Yep, that is quite a rainbow trajectory, but the tiny 40 gr slugs still ring the plate by the time they get there. I do not shoot game at 300 yards standing off the sticks anyway (it is not a game shot anymore, it is a gamble), and I found that if I can control the rifle enough to hit a 6" plate at 150 yards standing off the sticks, I have zero issue hitting at 300 yards leaning solidly on a rock, a tree, a backpack, etc.

The passing grade is 5 series of 5 shots each (25 successive shots) at 150 yards on the 6" plate. Any miss resets the entire count. Try it, it is not as easy as it sounds.

Two or three full power center-fire rounds from whatever rifle I will take to Africa that year are enough at the end of each .22 LR training session to remember what the recoil feels like.

Trigger...
As to trigger pull, I would not even consider a trigger less than 2 1/2 lbs on a hunting rifle. Sure a lighter trigger will be wonderful for the shots you take resting on a bag on top the Toyota hood, but by the time you are out of breath following a Kudu in the hills and running the last 200 yards to catch him before he crests the hill, that 1 1/2 lbs trigger is likely to mean that you will accidentally fire the rifle before you are solidly on the Kudu. Oh yes, it happens...

Bench...
I am not sure what purpose is served by shooting from a bench once the rifle is sighted. I have never found a bench in Africa when I was about to take a shot at game. A large majority of my shots in the bush have been standing off the sticks because the bush is typically too high to allows sitting or kneeling, never mind prone, and I have taken a fair number of shots at Huntershill leaning solidly on boulders because a lot of hunting there is hillsides hunting.

So, besides being needlessly punishing, bench shooting, I would propose, is actually counter productive for hunting. It gets you to expect a level of stability that is rarely found in the field.

What happens in Africa stays in Africa, but I can tell you - as I am sure many other outfitters can tell you - that we see a lot of people who punch 3 shots in 1.5" inch at 100 yards at the camp shooting range bench, who are utterly incapable of putting 3 rounds in a 10" paper plate at 100 yd shooting off hand, or even hardly capable of punching reliably, consistently, repeatably 3 holes in a 6" paper desert plate at 100 yd shooting standing off the sticks.

It seems to pay to train as you will actually hunt...

To each their own

only perfect practice is good practice.
if you are training yourself to flinch, you will do it automatically.
bruce.

I can handle about 2 three round groups with my 9.3x62 and full power loads without a problem. After that my groups open up some, probably in anticipation of recoil ( unconscious flinch). Same with my 375HH. I use a Past pad with the 375 because it is a little too much without it. With lighter loads I can go a couple more groups.

I like a 2 1/2 to 3 lb trigger. Anything lighter is too iffy in the field when I'm hyped for the shot. The finger stays out of the trigger guard til I'm on target but with no slack in the trigger I don't touch it til I'm certain of the shot. Too light a trigger is asking for trouble. If you should stumble or fall the jar to the rifle may cause it to fire. You may not have control of the muzzle. That bodes no good for anyone and good old Murphy is always around.

For a day at the range I'll generally take five or six rifles. Sizes from small 223, 243 to large 404, 458 with various ones in between. I'll shoot five to ten shots from each. The one variable to it is that I haven't decided which is best: start small and work up. Having acclimated to each level of increase similar to walking up a flight of stairs. By the time I get to the heavy hitters, they don't seem so bad; or starting with the heavy hitters, then having endured the recoil, stepping down. With the worst over, each step down is a welcome relief.

The other variable is that if I'm focusing on a particular rifle I may shoot 20 or 30 rounds in the course of a day, but only about five will be full power. the other 15 - 25 will be reduced loads where I practice on technique.

That's why I do most of my training with a 223. Bolt gun, full size and weight, light recoil, economical, reloadable and no punishment to my body.

Ridge Runner said:

Yes, that is another item to get use to. My 458WM already had a thick pad, but it was getting weak and the 375 needed a thicker pad for proper LOP fit, so both received new Limbsaver thick butt pads.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I put Limbsaver slip on recoil pads over the factory pads on my CZ .458WM and Interarms Whitworth .375. Reduces recoil significantly and makes the lop perfect for me. For now, I’m shooting open express sights at 50 meters while standing using a military sling. But I’ve been shooting three sets of three rounds quickly with five to ten minutes in between the sets and checking the targets. I’m done with those rifles after that? I may shoot my Browning .338WM or pistols after? My hearing already sucks! No detached retinas for me!

Almost exactly 50 years ago I got belted pretty hard by a slim, trim beauty of a little bolt gun off the bench- a full power 500 gr load 458 WM. That was absolutely a lesson and provided a framework for handling all future heavy recoiling rifles.

Now, anything 375 HH or bigger for me needs extra attention. I have spent a lifetime learning how to shoot accurately and without a flinch so I'm not about to do anything stupid to wipe all that out. That includes not shooting anywhere near a braked rifle or shooting a rifle that is braked- muzzle blast to the side of face or to the face when shooting one makes me flinch and I want no part of it. I use quality hearing protection of course. My heavy recoiling rifles are fairly straight, modern bolt guns ranging from about 9.5 to 11 lbs. I use a wide sissy pad of two pieces of heavy leather with a thin but dense foam core in the middle. It is not thick but it is wide and fairy stiff which spreads the recoil over a larger area. The heaviest recoiler I own and shoot generates about 75 ft bs of recoil energy. That is plenty and probably about all I want to deal with.

I have to adjust mentally when shooting them. More upright at the bench and firm grip on everything but NOT stiff. If I do that correctly then I can shoot about 10-15 of the heavy recoiler rounds without discomfort if spaced over several minutes. I will not shoot more than that if I realize I'm not in the correct mindset for shooting a heavy recoiler. I will stop at 2 or 3.

The only ill effects I have noticed after shooting a big gun is occasionally a headache. If I'm not "right" mentally, then that is when I have the headaches. If I'm doing it right really no effects I can tell.

a good honest answer 458.
the human psyche automatically recoils from violence, be it recoil, noise, or whatever.
saying "I love recoil" will not take this away, but rather suggests a denial of fact.
you have worked hard I would suggest on follow through, as this is the only real method of shooting any rifle effectively, and to destroy that would be a terrible waste.
bruce.

Excellent informative thread. I don't have it yet but I've recently purchased my first .375. And I'm honestly apprehensive of the recoil having never fired anything that large.
Everything I'm reading here will help with my learning and shooting practice.
I'm most concerned with getting it zeroed properly from the bench. Not so much after that.

wade,
get that rifle before going to the range and dry fire it a lot, aiming at a mark.
after the click, keep aiming at the mark till the count of 3, with the click being count 1.
this will encourage you to be able to "call your shot".
you will be able to call the shot due to the fact that you are following through.
if you do this enough to make it a habit, you will still slip backward when live firing, but by focusing on it in live firing you will shoot the gun well.
of course you have to shoot well to get a good zero.
bruce.

Excellent advice.
I've shot extensively my whole life but have never gotten follow through advice such as that.
Only in archery but the principle is the same

thank you wade.
what you do is give yourself an alternative to flinching.
I have spent 5 years shooting a black powder cartridge rifle out to 1000 yds.
a 550 gn bullet poked along with 100 gns of black in a 12 lb rifle prone has forced me to refine the process.
this has paid dividends when shooting my 9.3x64 at game and targets.
bruce.

Investing in a proper fitting stock makes the world of difference! I didn't mind my 375, and shot it a lot. But, after the LOP was adjusted a little, it made the world of difference. Any harshness was replaced by assertiveness. I realized I had learned to cope with the rifle before. My middle boy also shot it, which he didnt really do before, as it fit him better.

One Day... said:

Honest questions calling for honest answers...

My personal training regimen is to shoot ~ 5,000 (yep, five thousand) rounds of .22 LR at a 6" steel plate off the sticks in the couple months of spring before going to Africa...

Truth be told, this just as much my end of afternoon Sunday personal relaxation time, as it is my training time

Range Shooting

• One Day...
• Apr 24, 2019

6" plate at 150 yd. Not as easy a target as one might think. Ringing it 10 times in a row off...

Why?

#1 full power center-fire rifle training can actually be counterproductive
Some people can actually develop a flinch without even realizing it and muscle-memorize a whole range of negative habits, but even if this does not happen, the reality is that the recoil of full power center-fire cartridge will actually hide a whole range of shooting mistake. Because it has virtually no recoil, a full size .22 lr rifle will show you a trigger jerk, a breathing control issue, a rifle position mistake on the sticks, etc. A .300 or .375 will not.

#2 full power center-fire rifle training will burn your barrel and your wallet
50 to 80 rounds of full power center-fire firing once per week for 3 month (a dozen times) will put close to 1,000 rounds through your barrel. Depending on caliber and load, do it 2 or 3 years in a row and you will shoot out your barrel. Additionally, you will spend (depending on the ammo you shoot) $2,000 to $4,000.

#3 full power center-fire rifle training can have physiological consequences
Let us not even discuss hearing protection, it ought to be a given, right? Depending on the rifle weight and caliber you shoot, recoil can be harmful. For example, my Mauser 66 .458 Lott is objectively too light at 8 lbs 13 oz. Shooting more than a dozen rounds with it causes me a mild headache, the sure medical sign of a mild concussion. This is not good. Additionally, a number of aging shooters fall victim of retina detachment under violent recoil. We, aging men, need to be careful I suppose...

Why would you inflict all of this to yourself?
The bottom line is that shooting form off the sticks is better practiced with low to no recoil rifles. I like the .22 Lr myself because of its simplicity, but its negative side is that it limits practice to 150 yards. A .223 will extend the range to 300 yards with little negative impact on practically (a little more noise) or even the finances. To each their own.

I personally find that getting to near 100% hit with a .22 lr on a 6" steel plate at 150 yards standing off the sticks is all the training I need. Yep, that is quite a rainbow trajectory, but the tiny 40 gr slugs still ring the plate by the time they get there. I do not shoot 300 yards standing off the sticks (it is not a game shot anymore, it is a gamble), and I found that if I can control the rifle enough to hit a 6" plate at 150 yards standing off the sticks, I have zero issue hitting at 300 yards leaning solidly on a rock, a tree, a backpack, etc.

The passing grade is 5 series of 5 shots each (25 successive shots) at 150 yards on the 6" plate. Any miss rests the entire count. Try it, it is not as easy as it sounds

Two or three full power center-fire rounds from whatever rifle I will take to Africa that year are enough at the end of each .22 lr training session to remember what the recoil feels like.

Trigger...
As to trigger pull, I would not even consider a trigger less than 2 1/2 lbs on a hunting rifle. Sure a lighter trigger will be wonderful for the shots you take resting on a bag on top the Toyota hood, but by the time you are out of breath following a Kudu in the hills and running the last 200 yards to catch him before he crests the hill, that 1 1/2 lbs trigger is likely to mean that you will fire the rifle before you are on it. Oh yes, it happens...

Bench...
I am not sure what purpose is served by shooting from a bench once the rifle is sighted. I have never found a bench in Africa when I was about to take a shot at game. A large majority of my shots in the bush have been standing because the bush is typically too high to allows sitting or kneeling, never mind prone, and I have taken a fair number of shots at Huntershill leaning solidly on boulders because a lot of hunting there is hillsides hunting.

So, beside being needlessly punishing, bench shooting, I would propose, is actually counter productive for hunting. It gets you to expect a level of stability that is rarely found in the field.

What happens in Africa stays in Africa, but I can tell you - as I am sure many other outfitters can tell you - that we see a lot of people who punch 3 shots in 1.5" inch at 100 yards at the camp shooting range, utterly incapable of putting 3 rounds in a 12" paper plate at 100 yd shooting off hand, or even hardly capable of punching reliably, consistently, repeatably 3 holes in a 6" paper desert plate at 100 yd shooting standing off the sticks

It seems to pay to train as you will actually hunt...

To each their own

Click to expand...

This is spot on! I shot sporting clays competitively for ten years at ~10,000 rounds per year. I am not recoil shy, but I can assure you that you will develop bad habits if you subject yourself to too much pounding in your sessions. I developed 3/4 oz 12 gauge loads which had very little recoil for my practice sessions. This allowed me to extend my sessions without Adverse effect.

I also use a .22 for rifle practice. I limit the big bore work to a couple of 3 shot groups per session. I am fortunate to have my range 100 yds from my house. This allows for daily practice when preparing for a hunt.

The instructors at FTW Ranch always told us to "ride the bull". This means keeping your eye in the scope and holding the trigger back through recoil. When recovering from recoil you are still looking through the scope. As you settle down onto a bag or sticks, reset the trigger and you are set for your next shot. By concentrating on riding the bull you don't think about recoil and your head stays down on the cheekpiece. All this makes for faster, more accurate shooting.
They told us that most people have a tendency to look up and try to admire the shot, thereby losing cheek weld and sight picture. That was one of my problems until I started riding the bull. No more hunting for my target. My eye was pretty close to where it should be for the next shot. Head, hands and gun move as a unit all the way through the shot and recoil.

007 vs 500 nitro express with no pussy pads no flinch no detached eye ball parts...You may think your cool but you'll never be...

That wasn't James Bond.

One Day... said:

Honest questions calling for honest answers...

My personal training regimen is to shoot ~ 5,000 (yep, five thousand) rounds of .22 LR at a 6" steel plate off the sticks in the couple months of spring before going to Africa...

Truth be told, this just as much my end of afternoon Sunday personal relaxation time, as it is my training time

Range Shooting

• One Day...
• Apr 24, 2019

6" plate at 150 yd. Not as easy a target as one might think. Ringing it 10 times in a row off...

Why?

#1 full power center-fire rifle training can actually be counterproductive
Some people can actually develop a flinch without even realizing it and muscle-memorize a whole range of negative habits, but even if this does not happen, the reality is that the recoil of full power center-fire cartridge will actually hide a whole range of shooting mistake. Because it has virtually no recoil, a full size .22 lr rifle will show you a trigger jerk, a breathing control issue, a rifle position mistake on the sticks, etc. A .300 or .375 will not.

#2 full power center-fire rifle training will burn your barrel and your wallet
50 to 80 rounds of full power center-fire firing once per week for 3 month (a dozen times) will put close to 1,000 rounds through your barrel. Depending on caliber and load, do it 2 or 3 years in a row and you will shoot out your barrel. Additionally, you will spend (depending on the ammo you shoot) $2,000 to $4,000.

#3 full power center-fire rifle training can have physiological consequences
Let us not even discuss hearing protection, it ought to be a given, right? Depending on the rifle weight and caliber you shoot, recoil can be harmful. For example, my Mauser 66 .458 Lott is objectively too light at 8 lbs 13 oz. Shooting more than a dozen rounds with it causes me a mild headache, the sure medical sign of a mild concussion. This is not good. Additionally, a number of aging shooters fall victim of retina detachment under violent recoil. We, aging men, need to be careful I suppose...

Why would you inflict all of this to yourself?
The bottom line is that shooting form off the sticks is better practiced with low to no recoil rifles. I like the .22 Lr myself because of its simplicity, but its negative side is that it limits practice to 150 yards. A .223 will extend the range to 300 yards with little negative impact on practically (a little more noise) or even the finances. To each their own.

I personally find that getting to near 100% hit with a .22 lr on a 6" steel plate at 150 yards standing off the sticks is all the training I need. Yep, that is quite a rainbow trajectory, but the tiny 40 gr slugs still ring the plate by the time they get there. I do not shoot 300 yards standing off the sticks (it is not a game shot anymore, it is a gamble), and I found that if I can control the rifle enough to hit a 6" plate at 150 yards standing off the sticks, I have zero issue hitting at 300 yards leaning solidly on a rock, a tree, a backpack, etc.

The passing grade is 5 series of 5 shots each (25 successive shots) at 150 yards on the 6" plate. Any miss rests the entire count. Try it, it is not as easy as it sounds

Two or three full power center-fire rounds from whatever rifle I will take to Africa that year are enough at the end of each .22 lr training session to remember what the recoil feels like.

Trigger...
As to trigger pull, I would not even consider a trigger less than 2 1/2 lbs on a hunting rifle. Sure a lighter trigger will be wonderful for the shots you take resting on a bag on top the Toyota hood, but by the time you are out of breath following a Kudu in the hills and running the last 200 yards to catch him before he crests the hill, that 1 1/2 lbs trigger is likely to mean that you will fire the rifle before you are on it. Oh yes, it happens...

Bench...
I am not sure what purpose is served by shooting from a bench once the rifle is sighted. I have never found a bench in Africa when I was about to take a shot at game. A large majority of my shots in the bush have been standing because the bush is typically too high to allows sitting or kneeling, never mind prone, and I have taken a fair number of shots at Huntershill leaning solidly on boulders because a lot of hunting there is hillsides hunting.

So, beside being needlessly punishing, bench shooting, I would propose, is actually counter productive for hunting. It gets you to expect a level of stability that is rarely found in the field.

What happens in Africa stays in Africa, but I can tell you - as I am sure many other outfitters can tell you - that we see a lot of people who punch 3 shots in 1.5" inch at 100 yards at the camp shooting range, utterly incapable of putting 3 rounds in a 12" paper plate at 100 yd shooting off hand, or even hardly capable of punching reliably, consistently, repeatably 3 holes in a 6" paper desert plate at 100 yd shooting standing off the sticks

It seems to pay to train as you will actually hunt...

To each their own

Click to expand...

Great response! Before my first elk hunt my uncle told me to sight in at 100 yards off the bench and then never use the bench again. Tack 8 inch paper plates at 50 and 100 yards and practice putting accurate shots on those plates as fast as possible. I've never shot better than that year when I fired a couple hundred rounds off hand. If you can shoot accurately off hand then any rest is just that much better.

quacker attacker said:

Great response! Before my first elk hunt my uncle told me to sight in at 100 yards off the bench and then never use the bench again. Tack 8 inch paper plates at 50 and 100 yards and practice putting accurate shots on those plates as fast as possible. I've never shot better than that year when I fired a couple hundred rounds off hand. If you can shoot accurately off hand then any rest is just that much better.

Click to expand...

I agree, but will also say that knowing how to use a rest optimally is key. Shoot too much offhand and never rested and it's a foreign thing that causes doubt.
Best rifle I ever had was a .300 WM that I was afraid of the recoil, so I fired sixty rounds before I ever went into the woods. I was killing left and right with that gun. It was quite a time for accuracy and speed. I think this is the best way to prepare for any hunt.

+1 of what @One Day... posted. Thousands of rounds through a bolt action 22 off of sticks and a few rounds of a recoiling rifle will develop the muscle memory needed. Once load development and scope zero is done, get off the bench especially with heavy recoil rifles.