Interested in a speed test...

What slide/pump actions make .375 & Up?

How about this Krieghoff Semprio .416 for Africa?
This video covers this and other slide action rifles.

 
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crs said:
What slide/pump actions make .375 & Up?

How about this Krieghoff Semprio .416 for Africa?
This video covers this and other slide action rifles.

Click to expand...

Ooooh! I am in love. There are a lot of nice little expensive toys there... Three reasons not to own a double rifle...
Semprios only appear to be in .375 Ruger at the largest. Pity.
 
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Speed Test? Sounds like fun but essentially just a pointless p***ing contest. If the situation is critical then you don't have time for either.
From a post earlier this month https://www.africahunting.com/threads/time-to-live-the-speed-of-africas-dangerous-game.54588/

big-5-sppeds-jpg.322302
 

Attachments

  • catalogue_semprio-2.pdf
    3.2 MB · Views: 137
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crs said:
Forrest - Oh ye of little faith! Check out their Big 5 version and all other calibers in this catalog:
Includes .458 Win Mag, and others.
https://www.krieghoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/c atalogue_semprio-2.pdf
Click to expand...
I did not see that. Interesting caliber choices. Governed by the magazine length to be 3.3" or shorter looks like. Interesting idea as a whole. It's like the semmerling of rifles which means the bolt can be made short and it can be chambered in real magnum cartridges.
 
crs said:
What slide/pump actions make .375 & Up?

How about this Krieghoff Semprio .416 for Africa?
This video covers this and other slide action rifles.

Click to expand...
Nice video. Very smooth pump action rifle!
 
Well if nothing else, I learned a little bit today.
1. I have no interest in going for speed trying to reload my Model 70 with the scope mounted. It is the slowest possible thing to reload next to a musket after those first four shots as the scope is in the way and CRF is a disadvantage.
2. I have a lot of .375 loads and not all of the fit in the bolt action as it was my last acquisition. I need to settle on ONE load and COAL.
3. Win 760 may just be my new favorite powder for .375 as my 70 shoots lights out with it.

In other news I got my M70 zeroed irons and scope. I only brought ten rounds of magazine length so it was a short day for that gun, but I did take a few fast shots.

IMG_20200121_150644597.jpg
 
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Not in line with the parameters, but one aspect of rapid fire shooting is the shooters body alignment. As a rifle recoils it will veer to the least supported spot. If the shooter is properly situated the rifle will move directly back and up (given a butt that is below the line of the bore). as the recoil is completed the rifle will fell back to its pre-firing position. Doing so will allow for a very rapid additional shot(s).
 
Many years ago we did just such a test. Mauritz Coetzee(sadly past on to the eternal hunting fields) and a founding member of BASA(Big Bore Association of South Africa). We wanted to know basically what you want to know.

The rules were slightly different. Being a stop the charge situation big bores were used. Two double rifles one a 500 NE the other a 470 NE, the bolt action rifles were 500 Jeff and a 458 Lott.

Speed was not to compromise shot placement so if your shot missed the target you were disqualified.

4 shots were required as the argument was that is you could not kill/stop it with 4 you probably should not be in the profession.

Results were interesting:

The fastest reload for the second from the bolt action was only 0.2 of a second slower than the fastest second shot from the double rifles.

From shot 3 onward the double rifles were out of the game.

Conclusion, do not sacrifice accuracy for speed. You need only one shot to stop any charge, make it count. Double rifle is marginally faster for the second shot.

Either bolt or double is more than adequate for back up work and personal choice determines the decision as long as it is in an appropriate caliber.
 
IvW said:
Many years ago we did just such a test. Mauritz Coetzee(sadly past on to the eternal hunting fields) and a founding member of BASA(Big Bore Association of South Africa). We wanted to know basically what you want to know.

The rules were slightly different. Being a stop the charge situation big bores were used. Two double rifles one a 500 NE the other a 470 NE, the bolt action rifles were 500 Jeff and a 458 Lott.

Speed was not to compromise shot placement so if your shot missed the target you were disqualified.

4 shots were required as the argument was that is you could not kill/stop it with 4 you probably should not be in the profession.

Results were interesting:

The fastest reload for the second from the bolt action was only 0.2 of a second slower than the fastest second shot from the double rifles.

From shot 3 onward the double rifles were out of the game.

Conclusion, do not sacrifice accuracy for speed. You need only one shot to stop any charge, make it count. Double rifle is marginally faster for the second shot.

Either bolt or double is more than adequate for back up work and personal choice determines the decision as long as it is in an appropriate caliber.
Click to expand...
Where do you think that the double falls behind in reloading? In the clearing of empties or in the recharging of the chambers?

What was the distance you shot the test at?

I wasn't sure four shots would be sufficient to test everything I wanted to see. I feel like bolt guns are very fast with their onboard ammunition supply, but are at a loss when it comes time to reload the magazine. I'm under the illusion/impression that a good double shooter could keep pace with the bolt action and then overtake at the reloading point.

I haven't yet seen how quick I am with the single shot, but I was very surprised at how rapidly 10 rounds were expended during my last shooting session of the .458. I expect to lose a lot of ground clearing cases from the action as it still sports the factory safety and waiting for them to drop into the chamber. The hideous action mounted caddy would probably speed things up a bit, but I am without one at present.
 
Forrest Halley said:
Where do you think that the double falls behind in reloading? In the clearing of empties or in the recharging of the chambers?

What was the distance you shot the test at?

I wasn't sure four shots would be sufficient to test everything I wanted to see. I feel like bolt guns are very fast with their onboard ammunition supply, but are at a loss when it comes time to reload the magazine. I'm under the illusion/impression that a good double shooter could keep pace with the bolt action and then overtake at the reloading point.

I haven't yet seen how quick I am with the single shot, but I was very surprised at how rapidly 10 rounds were expended during my last shooting session of the .458. I expect to lose a lot of ground clearing cases from the action as it still sports the factory safety and waiting for them to drop into the chamber. The hideous action mounted caddy would probably speed things up a bit, but I am without one at present.
Click to expand...

Handling the cartridges and reloading the chambers.

If you cannot stop it with four you probably should not be there in the first place. Biggest mistake made during a charge is to shoot to hastily without proper aim, make sure the first shot goes where it needs to that is all you will need. If necessary the second can follow in short order. You will never have time for six shots and then still need to reload from there without stopping the charge, you will be dead by then double or bolt action.

By the time you get to six the double rifle will be re loading for the third time and the bolt action at this stage if the operator is still alive may well just load one....
 
IvW said:
Handling the cartridges and reloading the chambers.

If you cannot stop it with four you probably should not be there in the first place. Biggest mistake made during a charge is to shoot to hastily without proper aim, make sure the first shot goes where it needs to that is all you will need. If necessary the second can follow in short order. You will never have time for six shots and then still need to reload from there without stopping the charge, you will be dead by then double or bolt action.

By the time you get to six the double rifle will be re loading for the third time and the bolt action at this stage if the operator is still alive may well just load one....
Click to expand...

This is just a skills exercise. I understand it exceeds the need of most situations. If you can do it well, I'll wager you have a decent familiarity with your rifle.

I feel like most people don't know how to reload a double quickly well. The cost of the gun and ammunition limits the intensity of practice.

I know I am among the many who don't load a bolt gun quickly well. I'm not sure many bolt guns are setup to load fast unless it's a derivative of a military action.


I'm not under any illusion that by the sixth shot there is quite a problem in a charge situation. The principle of a hit being required to buy the time to facilitate a successful follow up shot with any game animal is not lost on me.
 
Ok. I get the gest of the OP, and what this speed test idea is meant for.

But what about rifles that use detachable magazines, and rifles with tube magazines?

Would these type rifles be able to compete against double or CRF or PF bolt action rifles?
 
Ridge Runner said:
Ok. I get the gest of the OP, and what this speed test idea is meant for.

But what about rifles that use detachable magazines, and rifles with tube magazines?

Would these type rifles be able to compete against double or CRF or PF bolt action rifles?
Click to expand...
This was to start a discussion and it has done really well. I have learned a lot about rifles I didn't know existed. From .458 BARs and M-1s to Semprios and Helixes. I am also learning what works and what doesn't work for speed shooting big rifles.

There is no prize.

I just want to see how fast a good shooter can make hits with these guns. I have seen a comparison video, but the double shooter was a snob that beat a gunfumbling boob with a bolt gun. They were horrible. So now my curiosity has gotten the best of me and I'm trying.

If you know about a detachable magazine rifle that is chambered .375 and up, have at it. One fellow says he's already got us all beat with his lever action. I'm more than inclined to believe him if the rifle is broken in or has been tuned.

Have at it. Have fun. Maybe you might learn something.
 
Today was another high speed failure.

Took the businesswoman out for a run with my reloads. Took a few test shots and tried to make some speed. I am not proficient enough with this rifle. It is loud. It is abrupt. It does not hurt me to shoot, but I am not at home with it at all. I must dryfire this rifle more and practice more. I found out my reloads are not good as I thought they were. I spent some time fixing that afterwards. Now I know why people taper crimp instead of roll crimping. I had too much of a crimp and had a slight bulge that I didn't perceive that ruined my speed run. I didn't plunk test the rounds in the chamber. Lesson reinforced.
Anyway here's ten shots from my .458 Lott at 25 yards. Yes I'm aware there is some wandering, but they stayed on the 10" paper plate. 7:30 flyer is not from today.
IMG_20200122_165319471_HDR.jpg
 
This is a very interesting and thought provoking thread Forrest, but no prize?
 
Forrest Halley said:
Today was another high speed failure.

Took the businesswoman out for a run with my reloads. Took a few test shots and tried to make some speed. I am not proficient enough with this rifle. It is loud. It is abrupt. It does not hurt me to shoot, but I am not at home with it at all. I must dryfire this rifle more and practice more. I found out my reloads are not good as I thought they were. I spent some time fixing that afterwards. Now I know why people taper crimp instead of roll crimping. I had too much of a crimp and had a slight bulge that I didn't perceive that ruined my speed run. I didn't plunk test the rounds in the chamber. Lesson reinforced.
Anyway here's ten shots from my .458 Lott at 25 yards. Yes I'm aware there is some wandering, but they stayed on the 10" paper plate. 7:30 flyer is not from today. View attachment 326334
Click to expand...
TEN rapid fire shots with a Lott? You’ll detach a cornea!
 
CoElkHunter said:
This is a very interesting and thought provoking thread Forrest, but no prize?
Click to expand...
I'm the only one playing and so far it's been adversity and suboptimal results. Sprinkles are for winners.

CoElkHunter said:
TEN rapid fire shots with a Lott? You’ll detach a cornea!
Click to expand...
Four quick shots. Six shots for fun. Cartridge issues.
IMG_20200122_214153983_HDR.jpg
Retina...and that's not likely unless something touches the eyeball or so I thought. I've got express sights...finally.
 
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