Norma TIPSTRIKE™

I've recently ordered a box of the bondstrike to try when my rifle returns from the smith

bruce moulds said:

you might find 2920 optimistic in the 7x64 with 160 gn bullets at sane pressures with any sort of case life.
bruce.

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I don't own a chronograph, but I don't personally see good reason to speculate Norma's published velocities for their 7mm-08 Remington and 7X64mm Brenneke factory ammo to be grossly erroneous. I certainly haven't seen any such complaints posted in reviewsbof folks who apparently have purchased snd fired Norma ammunition.

See the review posted by Bingo from Michigan on the 7mm-08 Remington Norma ammunition loaded with the 160 grain Tipstrike projectile on Midway USA.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019973527?pid=738020

Of course, it's all just electrons on the internet (including this discussion), but why have a default position such information is deliberately disingenuous with neither firsthand experience or widespread reports of that being the case? Norma factory ammo is pretty widely respected in the reviews I've seen posted, including on AH, by those who have purchased and shot it.

I don't find any reason to suspect Norma is deliberately posting factory 7X64mm Brenneke ballistic data for their ammo. It's been in the 2018 & 2019 catalogs, so there's been a decent time window for negative reviews of unrealized performance vs advertised to have been posted & disseminated by users outside the US.

YMMV

zorg,
at your level of interest, a chronograph would add a new dimension to your life.
it might also add new depth to your levels of cynicism.
bruce.

Never tried the tipstrike, but have been shooting the 230 grain ecostrike in my new 9.3x62 this year. Have had very good results on a doe, an 8 or, and a wild hog. Expansion has been been great for me and seems to open quickly for an all copper bullet. Been very accurate also.

bruce moulds said:

zorg,
at your level of interest, a chronograph would add a new dimension to your life.
it might also add new depth to your levels of cynicism.
bruce.

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If I purchase a chronograph, will that make my electrons here appear to be valid for you bruce?

I'm betting you didn't even check the review link I posted.

My career was one focused on innovation and optimization. In the US economy competitive advantage is real $$$. I can't speak for Sweden as I never lived nor worked there but Norma certainly shows interest in the competitive market place with discontinuing some product lines and introducing new product lines.

The recently introduced at retail level Winchester StaBALL 6.5 powder purports to provide a step change in velocity vs pressure for short action cartridges in particular. I'm watching for real-world experience base reviews but the data readily available in the public domain agrees that tesult has been shown in 7mm-08 Remington and 7mm-08 AI.

In a competitive marketplace, competition for market advantage spurs all sorts of things.

If I had pursued my career in Australia I would have long since been unable to continue years ago. The petroleum refineries in Australia were shuttered by the owners of those gacilities due to inability to remain competitive.

So in the absence of negative reviews for Norma's ammunition with regard to muzzle velocity, and finding a review well correlating to published muzzle velocity significantly higher than offered by other major brands of factory ammo, I give a nod to Norma trying to acquire marketplace business through innovation.

FWIW, a US boutiqe ammunition manufacturer is the only other source I've found loading 160 grain projectiles in 7mm-08 Remington ammo matching Norma's published muzzle velocity with that same weight projectile. The owner has informed me their facility uses custom powders not available for retail sale, when I asked about potential for getting some trial loads using the new Winchester StaBALL 6.5 powder. This has been offered for a number of years. In my mind if a US ammunition manufacturer is able to produce such ammo, certainly some other ammunition company whether based in the US ir not can similarly load ammunition with powder(s) not available at the retail level. It might even be the same powder but knowing how competitive companies treat trade secret information at least in the US, none of us will ever know, and the two ammunition companies will never likely know

Here's another link for reference and comparison for the US boutiqe ammo I'm referring to, with absolutely reasonable pricing.

https://shop.reedsammo.com/7mm-08-160g-Nosler-AB-Bonded-Ballistic-Tip-708160NAB.htm

zorg,
we come et this from different directions.
having chrono'd many factory rounds over the years, the difference between fact and fiction has become obvious.
also, getting speeds from reloads is interesting.
bruce.

Bruce,

I understand you aren't able to concieve that anything different can ever come to be. It's a fitting demonstration of why boxes are always more difficult than the ancient knot. Boxes get cozy & comfortable and insulated against other possibilities ever having a non-zero chance. Even in the face of a customer review posting his chronograph data of the Norma 7mm-08 160 grain Tipstrike ammo, it's perceived as impossible. And since you'll never purcase the product yourself and test it, that can never change.

Since I don't reload, like MANY of us who purchase factory ammunition, I have zero interest in spent brass beyond it performing its function inside my firearm appropriately prior to being ejected. I know that's way, way outside your cozy abode. It's simply another metal item to be recycled as scrap much like an empty aluminum beverage container.

zorg,
I merely thought you might find use of a chronograph interesting.
one thing I have learned in my box is that facts speak louder than words, particularly advertising words.
should the words prove true, so much the better, but you don't know until you test.
I myself would also like to own some means of pressure testing in my rifles, but it is really impractical in my situation, even though available.
my criteria for ammunition is safety, function, terminal bullet performance, and accuracy in that order, be it factory or hand loaded.
for target shooting, leave out terminal performance.
no one is saying anything is impossible, just that verification in your own gun never hurts.
bruce.

@TokkieM, thanks for the candid input from a purchaser and user. The land I've hunted Whitetail & Axis deer on most recently is small, especially by Texas standards, and shares property lines with some anti-hunting neighbors. I've passed up numerous shot opportunities on game where I judged the risk of the game leaping the low fences was too high without a well executed skull or neck CNS shot. My plans are to try the Norma Tipstrike ammo for appropriate body cavity shots on game hoping the fast stop properties live up to their advertising.

I'll solicit opinion from Mike at Reed's Ammunition and Researh on loading some 7X64mm Brenneke ammo for me using the 7mm 155 grain Federal Edge TLR projectile at 24" barrel reference muzzle velocity in the 2,920 - 2,953 fps (890 -900 m/s) window, since I already own Norma 7X64mm Brenneke ammo loaded with the 160 grain Tipstrike projectile. They've already acknowledged they can duplicate the Norman7X64mm Brenneke factory ammo published muzzle velocities with 7mm 156 grain and 170 grain Oryx projectiles. I haven't found that Norma factory ammo available for retail purchase anywhere in the US. They let me know those parameters were somewhat higher than average but easily achievable by their facilty and personnel, and not extreme. I'll forgo duplicating the Norma 7X64mm Brenneke 156 grain Oryx load because I'll have loads with 155 grain Federal Edge TLR projectiles as well as 160 grain Tipstrike projectiles.

The photos are of groups shot with Norma TipStrike in 3 different rifles and two different calibers. 2 x 308 and 1 x 30-06. Results speak for themselves, greatest spread over a 10 shot string was 2 meters per second, none under advertised velocity. Some groups could be better and is more a indicator of my ability than the ability of the ammo. 40 years ago my Dad used Norma, I have tried a few other brands but always came back to Norma and as said before 10 years of Norma Ammo and not changing anytime soon.
Given the type of hunting done here in Sweden and other parts of Europe the TipStrike is a "miracle" bullet. Devastating internal damage, deep penetration, no exit wound and deadly accurate. Small hunting areas, human activity in hunting areas, beaters walking the line all make for problems with "hard" bullets even if they expand. I have shot Fallow deer with a very well known mono metal bullet on several occasions and even when the shot was very good, they where on their feet long enough to make it a hundred or so yards, never happens with the TipStrike if the bullet is placed in the same place, 95% of the game i have shot lie where they where hit the others make it maybe 20 yards.

TokkieM said:

The photos are of groups shot with Norma TipStrike in 3 different rifles and two different calibers. 2 x 308 and 1 x 30-06. Results speak for themselves, greatest spread over a 10 shot string was 2 meters per second, none under advertised velocity. Some groups could be better and is more a indicator of my ability than the ability of the ammo. 40 years ago my Dad used Norma, I have tried a few other brands but always came back to Norma and as said before 10 years of Norma Ammo and not changing anytime soon.
Given the type of hunting done here in Sweden and other parts of Europe the TipStrike is a "miracle" bullet. Devastating internal damage, deep penetration, no exit wound and deadly accurate. Small hunting areas, human activity in hunting areas, beaters walking the line all make for problems with "hard" bullets even if they expand. I have shot Fallow deer with a very well known mono metal bullet on several occasions and even when the shot was very good, they where on their feet long enough to make it a hundred or so yards, never happens with the TipStrike if the bullet is placed in the same place, 95% of the game i have shot lie where they where hit the others make it maybe 20 yards. View attachment 325353 View attachment 325354 View attachment 325355

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The norma ecostrike I'm using is the first norma ammo I have bought cause I reload everything. This load in my 9.3x62 says velocity is 2641 fps and I got 2623 fps out of my 22 inch barrel and an sd of 5 fps which is great for factory ammunition to me.

Cleveland48 said:

Never tried the tipstrike, but have been shooting the 230 grain ecostrike in my new 9.3x62 this year. Have had very good results on a doe, an 8 or, and a wild hog. Expansion has been been great for me and seems to open quickly for an all copper bullet. Been very accurate also. View attachment 325336View attachment 325337View attachment 325338View attachment 325339

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Thanks for the field report on the Ecostrike rounds!!! Been eyeing it for my 9.3x62 because of the increased ballistic distance over the traditional 285/286 grain rounds. Haven’t found much online about the round so nice to hear a good field report.

Fastrig said:

Thanks for the field report on the Ecostrike rounds!!! Been eyeing it for my 9.3x62 because of the increased ballistic distance over the traditional 285/286 grain rounds. Haven’t found much online about the round so nice to hear a good field report.

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No problem i like them very much and they hardly copper foul at all with whatever coating they have on them. I got them mainly for the brass which is excellent also. They may not kill quite as fast as lead core bullets in my opinion, but I've yet to have game run more than 30 yards.

bruce moulds said:

zorg,
I merely thought you might find use of a chronograph interesting.
one thing I have learned in my box is that facts speak louder than words, particularly advertising words.
should the words prove true, so much the better, but you don't know until you test.
I myself would also like to own some means of pressure testing in my rifles, but it is really impractical in my situation, even though available.
my criteria for ammunition is safety, function, terminal bullet performance, and accuracy in that order, be it factory or hand loaded.
for target shooting, leave out terminal performance.
no one is saying anything is impossible, just that verification in your own gun never hurts.
bruce.

Click to expand...

Bruce,
I made a great portion of my career and professional respect on debunking all sorts of claims for things, generally hawked by groups of people holding far higher degrees from the world of academia than I posess. If my pay had been based on comission percentage of costs avoided, I would be far more financially comfortable than I am. But it certainly wasn't universally enjoyed, especially when my final supervisor (and her supervisor) were shown just how much her pet contractor had feet of clay mired in a deep swamp. It's a primary factor in me being "invited onward" to avoid even lower formal appraisal ratings of me for both of us to have to go through the machinations of. In the sudden frankness of the knowledge her position was unassailable there was discussion that since my wife was working I'd still have good healthcare coverage, and how my work had become like picking at loose threads on a garment where it was undesirable to see any further unraveling. Unspoken but clearly mutually understood I fulfilled the human sacrifice requirements of the tribal council for the whole series of undesirable things that had been brought to light. Personally, I was reasonably confident the real safety issues of this prototype design had been flushed out, that compliance with then-current environmental regulations was achieved, and that I had put robust design directions in place with sufficient attention to detail that when studied after they were implemented the study scheduled afterwards by regulatory authorities would result in favorable outcomes, there was little reason to remain and with my health in decline, I went on long term medical leave until my earliest possible retirement date.

However, if something is put forth by an organization respected for their technical prowess, and proven in other work by that organization, even if that proof wasn't something I personally conducted, my default position is innocent until proven guilty of hucksterism.

YMMV

I'm pretty sure I've posted elsewhere on this board that I haven't yet found a range that will allow customers to use chronographs. Zero tolerance for anything beyond the firing line other than paper targets during all live fire. There may be someone among the smaller ranges in this area I haven't contacted yet that might allow it, probably if I pay a hefty fee to reserve that entire portion of the range facilities for my exclusive use, with a hefty tip for assistance of undoubtably mandatory dedicated supervision for me doing something unusual for their facility, but that's plain not worth it to me.

Cleveland48 said:

No problem i like them very much and they hardly copper foul at all with whatever coating they have on them. I got them mainly for the brass which is excellent also. They may not kill quite as fast as lead core bullets in my opinion, but I've yet to have game run more than 30 yards.

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Thanks from me as well! The Norma Ecostrike is now at the top of my list if I ever hunt somewhere that bans using ammunition with projectiles containing lead.

zorg,
sorry about your health issue.
if I could afford it I would get a labradar.
I have used them and all we had to do was put it next to the muzzle and shoot.
some target shooters use them while competing, but they are usually banned in big matches for the advantage a user might gain.
they are reouted to be as accurate as the best skyscreen chronos, and do not affect point of impact like the ones that strap onto the barrel.
bruce.

Norma TIPSTRIKE is developed for stopping power, combined with a penetration deep enough to reach the vital organs of the game.

Norma TIPSTRIKE by Norma-USA posted Feb 7, 2020 at 3:12 AM

@bruce moulds, here's a sstudy full of facts, albeit not done by you, not using your chronograph, and not involving you in the slightest neasure. Can you accept the facts in this study, regardless of how many words are involved, where Norma factory ammunition tested providing higher velocities than published by Norma? You *could* just look at the numbers instead of these "words" you find so lacking in value. Except of course, you weren't directly a witness to these tests.

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/monomental-and-lead-bullets-compared.54027/

I looked at skyscreen, I can easily asfford one, but for what? You wouldn't accept sny results I might obtain without you being physically present and performing all instrument calibrations to your satisfaction.

I see you completely missed the point that I made a good honest career with my adherance to facts, and you're the only individual who's ever indicated I have insufficient cynicism since I was 19 years old.

So tell us why you find this study's results on Norma ammunition published velocity vs measured velocity is groundless other than lacking your personal presence and involvement during that part of the testing.

Spoken like a warrior!

zorg,
you make suppositions.
bruce.