Overbuilt Optics

Standard Velocity · Dec 28, 2019

I saw that the new Bushnell Forge scopes are discontinued on Midway and selling for 50% off. I’ve never been a fan of Bushnell and definitely don’t care for the aesthetics of the Forge, but the line was touted as their overbuilt bad-ass line. The magazine propagandists were big fans at the lines release.

I remember the Leupold LPS that was pretty advanced for its price and is still competitive with modern scopes. I have no love for vintage scopes since (aside from build quality) it is modern coatings and more precisely machined glass that makes a difference but some of these old scopes still perform pretty good.

Do you all have any examples of scopes or binoculars that were overbuilt statements by a manufacturer; optics that will age well in the face of modern manufacturing innovations?

lockingblock · Dec 28, 2019

The only optics that age well are Swarovski, Zeiss, S&B, and maybe Leica.

everything else just ages out.
YMMV.

Hogpatrol · Dec 28, 2019

If talking solely with overbuilt, Nightforce. Don't do this with any other brand, regardless of what they cost.

JimP · Dec 28, 2019

A outfitter friend of mine in Arizona will only put Nightforce and Leopold's on his rifles and those are the only two that he recommends for the hunters that he guides.

He has seen every other manufactures scope fail after a tumble or a horse rolls over the rifle. He even packs a spare Leopold on all of his guided hunts as a just in case thing. He did say that as far as Swaro's he loves the optics and that is all he uses for a spotter and binoculars but he doesn't recommend them for a rifle scope.

lockingblock · Dec 28, 2019

Nightforce Mil Spec is literally glued fully together and can’t be serviced as they want maximum durability over repairability. They are likely the most durable scopes ever built...but they are rare as they were generally only built for DOD contracts.

mikecatt13 · Dec 28, 2019

Bushnell makes much more impressive products now than they used to

Ray B · Dec 28, 2019

My experience indicates that all the modern coating and precise grinding might account for a very minimal difference in scope performance. I have a Zeiss Zeilvier 4x made in 1935 and a Bausch & Lomb Zephyr 8x30 binocular made in 1949 that compare favorably to scopes/binoculars of recent make by Leupold, Zeiss and S&B. but then they don't have lighted reticles for those that want to poach something in the dark.

mikecatt13 · Dec 28, 2019

Ray B said:
but then they don't have lighted reticles for those that want to poach something in the dark.

That's a pretty bold statement...really not going to get into disproving it because it's so ridiculous but come on now...

Ray B · Dec 28, 2019

mikecatt13 said:
That's a pretty bold statement...really not going to get into disproving it because it's so ridiculous but come on now...

What's to prove? None of my scopes have lighted reticles.

markferrigno · Dec 28, 2019

Ray B said:
What's to prove? None of my scopes have lighted reticles.

So you only poach in the daylight, got it.....

mikecatt13 · Dec 28, 2019

Ray B said:
What's to prove? None of my scopes have lighted reticles.

Theres no reason to derail a productive thread so to make this very simple, a vast majority of places allow hunting 30 minutes before sunrise until 30 minutes after sunset. If you've ever spent a day in the field, its obvious that a dark reticle on a dark animal during legal shooting hours can be a problem for the ethical hunter trying to make a good shot. That's totally leaving out advantages of precision aiming even midday with reticles like a leupold firedot, and legally hunting in certain places by attaching night vision or lights for predators, or competition applications. But I get, you just wanted to troll for attention

Ray B · Dec 28, 2019

No, it's clear that you don't get it. I've investigated far too many hunting incidents that the primary cause was the shooter taking a shot under circumstances where he/she couldn't clearly identify the animal and what lay behind it- circumstances such are involved with shooting in light so dim that the reticle needs to be lit for the shooter to see it. Too bad the other hunter, mistaken for game wasn't also lit. but to put the train back on the track, maybe you can provide a method of comparison to show just how much better your new scopes are than my old one.

Newboomer · Dec 28, 2019

I have illuminated scopes on all my rifles so I can see dark animals in shadows or heavy bush any time of day. I noticed the Nightforce guy didn't change the windage turret for the test. Pretty impressive any way you look at it.

markferrigno · Dec 28, 2019

Ray B said:
No, it's clear that you don't get it. I've investigated far too many hunting incidents that the primary cause was the shooter taking a shot under circumstances where he/she couldn't clearly identify the animal and what lay behind it- circumstances such are involved with shooting in light so dim that the reticle needs to be lit for the shooter to see it. Too bad the other hunter, mistaken for game wasn't also lit. but to put the train back on the track, maybe you can provide a method of comparison to show just how much better your new scopes are than my old one.

A lighted reticle doesn't help identify the target, it helps distinguish between the reticle and target. If someone shot another person thinking it was a game animal then a lighted reticle had nothing to do with it. Rule 4 "Know your target and what's behind it"

Lighted reticles are very helpful, even in daylight, esp. as eyes age. But I get it, I'll get off your lawn.

markferrigno · Dec 28, 2019

Newboomer said:
I have illuminated scopes on all my rifles so I can see dark animals in shadows or heavy bush any time of day. I noticed the Nightforce guy didn't change the windage turret for the test. Pretty impressive any way you look at it.

I noticed that also, I guessing it's because the Zero Stop is only on the Elevation but not 100% sure.

Hogpatrol · Dec 28, 2019

markferrigno said:
I noticed that also, I guessing it's because the Zero Stop is only on the Elevation but not 100% sure.

Zero stop on elevation only and not on all NF scopes. Some Trijicons have the same setup on their elevation turrets.

mdwest · Dec 28, 2019

IOR Valdada...

The main battle tank of the scope world.. heavy as a cinder block and about the most ruggedly built optic I’ve ever seen..

They get their glass from AB Schott.. the same place Swaro, Zeiss, etc get theirs.. so it’s top quality stuff...

I don’t prefer them on hunting rifles.. I find them heavy to the point of being rude.. and most of their turrets and reticles are geared toward the “tactical” market.. but.. I had one years ago on a precision rifle that was nearly indestructible.. I literally drug that thing through ditches, culverts, over rocks, through dilapidated buildings, across rivers, and God only knows what else.. and it never lost as much as a hair of accuracy.. (although it certainly showed a lot of scars from all of the abuse)...

Bullthrower338 · Dec 28, 2019

mdwest said:
IOR Valdada...

The main battle tank of the scope world.. heavy as a cinder block and about the most ruggedly built optic I’ve ever seen..

They get their glass from AB Schott.. the same place Swaro, Zeiss, etc get theirs.. so it’s top quality stuff...

I don’t prefer them on hunting rifles.. I find them heavy to the point of being rude.. and most of their turrets and reticles are geared toward the “tactical” market.. but.. I had one years ago on a precision rifle that was nearly indestructible.. I literally drug that thing through ditches, culverts, over rocks, through dilapidated buildings, across rivers, and God only knows what else.. and it never lost as much as a hair of accuracy.. (although it certainly showed a lot of scars from all of the abuse)...

I’ve got to agree! I’ve got two of these and they are monsters! Dials are like grabbing a snuff can with tons of movement per rotation! Damn good stuff!

Mr. Zorg · Dec 29, 2019

I have some vintage Made in Japan vintage Tasco TR series scopes that have the stadia wire and custom ranging elevation turrets. I have no use for the stadia wire, but these still have great optical clarity to my admittedly non-pristine vision, but I'm not Mr. Magoo either. I have the turrets for all except the Weatherby calibers IIRC, including some blank turrets to set myself. Here's a link to an example of what I'm talking about.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tasco-4-X16-40mm-BDC-Rifle-Scope-Japan-Vintage/174138972675

Dunno if that meets the definition of "overbuilt", but they sure don't meet the definition of the throwaway scopes currently marketed under the Tasco name. The family of curves in the owners' manuals are just the kind of vintage technology that appeals to me.

CoElkHunter · Dec 29, 2019

mikecatt13 said:
Bushnell makes much more impressive products now than they used to

I have a 1974 Bushnell 4x scope with the “Command Post” feature. You turn a ring near the aperture and a thick, dark post appears from the bottom crosshair to the center of the crosshairs. Mechanical, but kinda cool. Anyway, I don’t use the scope anymore, cause it fell out of a rifle scabbard when things went awry a few years back, and a horse stepped on it and sheared off the right knob, but it still held it’s zero after that! But Bushnell was bought out by Bausch and Lomb in the 80s and now I think their owned by another company?

Overbuilt Optics

Standard Velocity

lockingblock

Hogpatrol

JimP

lockingblock

mikecatt13

Ray B

mikecatt13

Ray B

markferrigno

mikecatt13

Ray B

Newboomer

markferrigno

markferrigno

Hogpatrol

mdwest

Bullthrower338

Mr. Zorg

Attachments

CoElkHunter

Members online

Forum statistics

Proudly sponsored by

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

Buffalo Hunt with Henry Griffiths Safaris $10000

Share this page