SOUTH AFRICA: Has Anyone Hunted With Bayete Group?

I keep wondering why all these dramas start out with something like, “I or we “won” or had too much to drink at such and such a function and “won the bid” on a “safari” with such and such outfit. Or, we found an unbelievable “deal” or we found a safari outfit that offered negotiable fees for cash or a special “deal” in an area that hasn’t been hunted in years.....” and so on and so forth. Then sometime later the same people show up on one of the internet hunting forums asking if anyone knows anything about such and such outfit. Then hints or facts of some shady activities start to surface. Then mysteriously, brand new members start showing up singing the praises of such and such outfit on the same forums. This theme seems eerily to repeat itself over and over. There are so many not-so-subtle patterns and clues - all hiding in plain sight!

fourfive8 said:

I keep wondering why all these dramas start out with something like, “I or we “won” or had too much to drink at such and such a function and “won the bid” on a “safari” with such and such outfit. Or, we found an unbelievable “deal” or we found a safari outfit that offered negotiable fees for cash or a special “deal” in an area that hasn’t been hunted in years.....” and so on and so forth. Then sometime later the same people show up on one of the internet hunting forums asking if anyone knows anything about such and such outfit. Then hints or facts of some shady activities start to surface. Then mysteriously, brand new members start showing up singing the praises of such and such outfit on the same forums. This theme seems eerily to repeat itself over and over. There are so many not-so-subtle patterns and clues - all hiding in plain sight!

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I didn't win and I wasn't under the influence but the information I've been reading and received directly from some of the land owners who support safaris is very concerning to us. We've been looking forward to this for some time now and unfortunately we've witnessed a barrage of negative information on Bayete of late. I would very much appreciate any credible information you may have on them. Thank you....Eric, Alaska

I'm on safari with Bayete right now. I was not a member of this forum until this week. I had checked for comments months ago and all looked good. After we saw some "red flags" here on the trip I started digging some more including this forum.

I'll write more when I get back but the summary is:
-I'm having a great time. We are being taken care of and I am very happy that we came. We have an excellent PH.

HOWEVER. there are several examples of disorganization and at least 2 examples of the red flags that made us wonder about their financial condition, even before we came online and found out about their payment problems. The first was the somewhat disorganized communication became more confusing about 3 weeks ago as the concierge name changed again. Then, 2 weeks ago we received an email that Bayete is using a temporary camp "while they build their new luxury camp". Finally, we were ready to hunt early one morning and waiting. We overheard that we could not go to the game farm we were scheduled at because Bayete owed the farmer money. One of their employees had to go get cash from an ATM and pay the farmer before we could go in. There is also not much hunting ground Bayete currently has contracted, although it has been enough to keep us happy.

On the positive side, the experience they provided at the airport was excellent. A porter met us with a sign, and she took us to "Mr X" (the guy who handles rifle imports). From there we met our drivers, who were very friendly and immediately brought us in a reasonably comfortable van back to the "camp". The camp is an adequate facility. 2 people per cottage-style building, food in a central lodge. There is a swimming pool. It's not the luxury facility they advertise, but it's not that important to us. The reason it was a "red flag" is that I just don't buy that you move your clients to a temporary, downgraded place while you build some imaginary new place.

I saw a semi-reliable source say that the NRA ceased offering the Bayete safaris at auction. If they have not stopped, I would certainly not recommend that anyone buy one right now.

If you have already bought one I would seriously consider whether you want to go ahead with deposit and airline ticket. Maybe wait until a few weeks before your schedule and get information from locals?

In the end an auction item is a donation. We somewhat trusted the NRA "vetting" of this safari company but I also went to an NRA banquet as I do to other charity events with the intent to donate money. What is most concerning/upsetting about the situation though is that it appears Craig (former NRA employee) had to be aware of the problems with Bayete for months while he was still employed there. I just heard that Bayete is now offering a safari with the elk foundation, where Craig now works. Craig's wife was working for Bayete as of a few weeks ago, so it doesn't seem possible to me that he is ignorant of the problems.

It is possible another safari company will step up and offer something also; the safari providers still make money as people tend to buy the opportunity to hunt more animals once they get here.

After I heard about some people having trophies withheld we asked some questions and are making sure the animals are being delivered to the taxidermist. We will be visiting the taxidermist Sunday before we leave the country.

Payments to the taxidermist, whether made now or later go directly not through Bayete.

Thanks for the updates, very interested in hearing more.

HunterCyclist1 said:

After I heard about some people having trophies withheld we asked some questions and are making sure the animals are being delivered to the taxidermist. We will be visiting the taxidermist Sunday before we leave the country.

Payments to the taxidermist, whether made now or later go directly not through Bayete.

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Hi,
Great to hear your having a great time!!! I was there with Bayete the first of July and had a great time. The lodge you describe sounds exactly like where we stayed LOL right on the river and great morning and evening views. I loved Africa and would love to go back one day.
I attended a Friends of NRA about two weeks ago here in Kentucky and they had changed the Africa Safari provider to a different company.
Hope you have a safe trip and enjoy.
Interested to hear what you have to say when you get back to the states.
I used Highveld taxidermists and we toured their facility on the way back... impressed.... my trophies are to be ready this december.

later.... stay safe and enjoy
cliff

HunterCyclist1 said:

I'm on safari with Bayete right now.

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I shot my Kudu with them on August 22. It still hasn't made it to the taxidermist. If St John is there, would you mind asking him to return my phone calls and emails?

Thanks!

Gunnersdad49 said:

I shot my Kudu with them on August 22. It still hasn't made it to the taxidermist. If St John is there, would you mind asking him to return my phone calls and emails?

Thanks!

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That fact might also support some of the concerns raised about paying the operators. There is no way the land owner or safari operator is letting any trophies leave the property before they are paid.

Not returning calls! That is someone who does not care about future business.

Gunnersdad49 said:

I shot my Kudu with them on August 22. It still hasn't made it to the taxidermist. If St John is there, would you mind asking him to return my phone calls and emails?

Thanks!

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You ever hear from St. John? He provided us with 6 references he said we could email for feedback about their operation as we plan for our May 2020 hunt; oddly enough we haven't heard from anyone I reached out to on the list.

I've had great communication with Brooke (pretty sure that is her name) his US representative. Still nothing from him. I didn't want to pile on, but they also forgot about us at the airport on our way in. We spent about 3 hours with the people from Hunters Permits Africa (their customer service is top notch and I would highly recommend Adele and her crew) then another hour or two at a hotel bar across the street from the airport waiting for a lift for the 3 hour drive to the lodge.

St John is a good salesman, and a fun guy to have a beer with. I just don't think that attention to detail is his strong suit.

no time for long report as I am still here having fun, including our whole group going to a non-hunting game preserve today for some great views

But just to give an example of the lack of organization (or funds or both) . They had ran out of beer, decent wine, then whiskey so I just decided it was easier to buy some. Asked our PH to stop at the liquor store.

HunterCyclist1, Are you hunting with Frikke?

Hi
Just an update on the Kuche/Bayete situation.
The date today is 11/25/2019
Up to date I was not contacted by e-mail, telephone or any other means by Bayete on how they plan to pay for the hunts they conducted with us
My agreement with them (in writing) is that the trophies remains the property of Kuche Safaris till paid in full.
They jumped from us to the Naboomspruit area in the Limpopo where they operate outofa non-aproved camp...this was confirmedina phonecall with the manager that they are not approved by nature conservation to host hunters
Rumours have that they also jumped from NRA to RMEF with Craig Haggard
I read here in a post they are building a "luxury lodge"....should the trophies of their clients that is held back (due to non payment by Bayete) not be responsability no 1?

ETCAK said:

You ever hear from St. John? He provided us with 6 references he said we could email for feedback about their operation as we plan for our May 2020 hunt; oddly enough we haven't heard from anyone I reached out to on the list.

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Just read what is written on the forum and you will realize who and what you are dealing with.
I have trophies of some of their clients that I hold as collateral till full payment. It is months now and still no payment, no contact or any plan on the table from them.There are several good and reputable outfitters here on AH ...pick one

ChrisT said:

Word is doing the rounds that these guys owe a lot of money to quite a few Outfitters and landowners here in Limpopo. There's talk of trophies that are going to be held back due to non payment. Please feel free to PM me for details.

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Hi Chris
Yes It is months now and Bayete has still not paid Kuche or even offered any payment.
No calls, mails or any other meansof communication
Seems like they turned their backs on their clients and do not resolve the proplem
Trophies are held back and will NOT be released till full payment (we have a written agreement that trophies remains the property of Kuche till paid in full)

Thank you everyone for the information. I won the NRA auction this last April and was getting ready to book my trip but with all the new info I'm going to wait and see if they get things figured out. Thanks, for the heads up.

Any further information? My neighbor is in this boat and getting ready to set his dates. Have any clients confronted or asked Bayete or St. John what is going on? I dont think I have ability to send or recieve PMs

Koosdm, do you see or hear any news? Do you have contact info for the clients you are holding trophies of?

Not to get too off topic but, as someone in the researching phase of a future safari, what are the lessons to be learned here?

1) do not book unless the company has a well-established reputation, not just a year or two?

2) how do you avoid situations like this where the company doesnt pay farmers and it effects the clients? See above lesson, or?

New here, created a profile to keep up to date on this blog as our group appears to be in the same situation as others here and won an NRA hunt back in July booked for November 2020. We were originally booked at the Legadema River Lodge, but recently have been moved to the Mount Amanzi Game Lodge and looking to book our flight in early 2020.

@James Faulkner dude walk away, look at the offers on here and book with someone on AH. Just consider the price you paid at the NRA banquet a donation.