Buffalo hunting with a .458 Win Mag

Major Khan said:

Oh , yes. That tube magazine was a limiting factor back in those days , regarding bullet choices .
Today , Models like the Savage Model 99 and the Winchester Model 1895 , with their vertical magazines have solved such problems. There is a saying , however that lever rifles are inherently less accurate than bolt rifles at longer ranges . I cannot assess the truth of this statement , because my maternal grandfather never shot an animal further than 125 yards with that rifle.

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250-300 meters is my limit with my bolt action .338WM! We can’t use dogs to track wounded game like elsewhere, and I’m not chasing a wounded animal through the mountains because of a long, poor shot!

CEH, you got me! How did you find out that my Avatar was photo-shopped?

Major Khan said "My maternal grandfather took 2 royal Bengal tigers and 5 Panthers with a .405 Winchester calibre Model 1895 lever rifle ".
Thank you for reminding me of the writings of Corbett and Anderson. I did a quick review and I have read all of Anderson's works, but had missed a couple of Corbetts. So, I just ordered those last ones written by Corbett.

Now I am guaranteed several classic hunting stories for Christmas Holiday reading ; from Corbett in India to Osa Johnson in Africa (did you know she also shot a Winchester 1895 .405 and took ele, buff, rhino and such with it?) My order included a DVD entitled "OSA'S BIG GAME HUNT", a 1.5 hour collection of her African hunt films.

Thank you Major Khan.

crs said:

CEH, you got me! How did you find out that my Avatar was photo-shopped?

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Well, obviously you can’t use a lever action in Africa cause it won’t work south of the equator. So I’m thinking you either shot that bull in Texas with your Winchester, or underneath what appears to be a lever action, is actually a bolt action disguised as a lever action AND you actually DID shoot it in Africa. Either way, it’s a GREAT looking buffalo! Congrats!

CoElkHunter said:

Well, obviously you can’t use a lever action in Africa cause it won’t work south of the equator. So I’m thinking you either shot that bull in Texas with your Winchester, or underneath what appears to be a lever action, is actually a bolt action disguised as a lever action AND you actually DID shoot it in Africa. Either way, it’s a GREAT looking buffalo! Congrats!

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I love your sense of humor . You are 1 of the few posters whose comments can make me laugh ( l mean it in a genuinely good way ).

crs said:

Major Khan said "My maternal grandfather took 2 royal Bengal tigers and 5 Panthers with a .405 Winchester calibre Model 1895 lever rifle ".
Thank you for reminding me of the writings of Corbett and Anderson. I did a quick review and I have read all of Anderson's works, but had missed a couple of Corbetts. So, I just ordered those last ones written by Corbett.

Now I am guaranteed several classic hunting stories for Christmas Holiday reading ; from Corbett in India to Osa Johnson in Africa (did you know she also shot a Winchester 1895 .405 and took ele, buff, rhino and such with it?) My order included a DVD entitled "OSA'S BIG GAME HUNT", a 1.5 hour collection of her African hunt films.

Thank you Major Khan.

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You are most welcome , Crs. By the way . The Winchester Model 1895 lever rifle in your avatar ... Is it a new production 1 ?

This is my shooter and my fancy unfired Deluxe is in the safe. Both are Miroku/Winchester 1895 .405 with shotgun butts.
My shooter has taken a wide variety of game from Blackbuck and Nilgai to water buff and Cape buff. The cape buff was taken with Woodleigh 400 grain hand loads and all other game with 300 grain ammo (some factory and some hand loads).
The 1895 is a very handy rifle and I really like the .405 cartridge. So much that I also have a .405 DR; a Simson &Co Suhl that really tames the recoil of the cartridge, even with 400 grain loads.

CEH,
Well, maybe that "south of the equator" rule does not apply to hunters Down Under?
If it does, my friend down there has mislead me about all the game he shot in Africa and Australia with his scoped 1895 .405. I know the game he shot here in Texas with that rifle was legit because I was there and he used one of my 300 grain North Fork cartridges on some big critter.

Major Khan said:

I love your sense of humor . You are 1 of the few posters whose comments can make me laugh ( l mean it in a genuinely good way ).

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I tend to treat what I personally see as “absurdity” with sarcasm, and I guess it become humorous at times. Don’t mean to offend anyone and maybe it’s a bad habit, but I call it as I see it! Anyway,

crs said:

CEH,
Well, maybe that "south of the equator" rule does not apply to hunters Down Under?
If it does, my friend down there has mislead me about all the game he shot in Africa and Australia with his scoped 1895 .405. I know the game he shot here in Texas with that rifle was legit because I was there and he used one of my 300 grain North Fork cartridges on some big critter.

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crs,
I guess I was wrong. Misled by all the professionals here who said it couldn’t be done? I apologize. I’m just a lever action novice. But I do have some theories I will float henceforth about lever actions and why they can possibly be used successfully for hunting. Getting back on topic for an instant, think a Browning BLR in .300 WM, re barreled and chambered in .458 WM? It could work? But for now it’s 22 degrees here (feels like 12 windchill) and is snowing. The roads are icy and I have to work tomorrow, so to all here on AH, goodnight!
CEH

CEH,
Stay warm and out of the bar ditches tomorrow.

+ Your BAR idea might work and I can check with an "expert".

However, I already have a lever action .458. It is a .458 2.4 aka .45-90 that has been proven in Africa and Texas. I wonder if it will work in Australia?

Cooling off here in the Dallas area also, off to bed.

crs said:

This is my shooter and my fancy unfired Deluxe is in the safe. Both are Miroku/Winchester 1895 .405 with shotgun butts.
My shooter has taken a wide variety of game from Blackbuck and Nilgai to water buff and Cape buff. The cape buff was taken with Woodleigh 400 grain hand loads and all other game with 300 grain ammo (some factory and some hand loads).
The 1895 is a very handy rifle and I really like the .405 cartridge. So much that I also have a .405 DR; a Simson &Co Suhl that really tames the recoil of the cartridge, even with 400 grain loads.

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Seeing that rifle brings back so many fond memories . During our time , only 300 grain soft point cartridges were available from ICI Kynoch. It is fascinating that 400 grain bullets exist now.
Below , l have provided a photograph of my grandfather and l after we killed 2 royal Bengal tigers .

My grandfather shot the 1st royal Bengal tiger 3 times in the chest ( frontal heart shot) with his .405 Winchester and 300 grain soft point bullets . He shot the 2nd 1 once through the lungs and l then fired an Eley 12 calibre Lethal Ball cartridge at it's head with my Belgian shot gun , which finished it off.
Unfortunately , by 1956 no company manufactured cartridges for the .405 Winchester anymore . My grandfather's stock piled amount of cartridges lasted him until 1966 and then he sold the rifle . I really regret letting him sell that beautiful rifle. With modern ammunition and loading components available for it once again , lt would have been a joy to use , right now.

My client secured this 2000 pound male Gaur with his bespoke double barrel rifle built by the English firm , Holland and Holland , calibrated for the .458 Winchester magnum cartridge ( regulated for Remington 500 grain bullets ) . It was the greatest performance of a .458 Winchester magnum calibre rifle which l had ever seen. Unfortunately , l also had a very bad experience with one . A client using a .458 Winchester magnum calibre bolt operation rifle , built by the firm , Birmingham Small Arms nearly got us all killed when his Hornady solid metal envelope bullets failed to give adequate penetration on a Gaur .
The cartridge case is too small , in proportion to the weight of the bullet and back in our time , this was problematic , because it meant that the charge of powder was too small to deliver the advertised velocity of 2150 feet per second each and every single time . However today , with modern propellants and better constructed bullets , l believe that the .458 Winchester magnum is a completely acceptable choice , as a buffalo cartridge . That is why l try to be more forgiving of the cartridge than my learned fellow professional Shikari and forum member , Major Khan .
What you need for buffalo is a good quality soft nose bullet in the 465 to 500 grain range , which has a very controlled rate of expansion . Such a soft nose bullet , which pierces the two lungs of a buffalo , fired from the side , will lay it low very quickly.
In light of these requirements , my research and reading shows me that the Swift A frame bullet is advisable.

If your rifle shoots them well, I would go with a 480gr woodliegh soft for the first shot and then solids after. With that weight, you'll easily get to 2150-2200 fps with no pressure issues and it will hit a buff like a hammer.

This is what approximates the original 450 NE loads. I cannot for the life of me understand why Winchester didn't go with a 480 from day one. Had they done so, the cartridge would never have gotten the bad press early on and would probably be the sole, gold-standard for larger game in a bolt gun today.

...I cannot for the life of me understand why Winchester didn't go with a 480 from day one. Had they done so, the cartridge would never have gotten the bad press early on and would probably be the sole, gold-standard for larger game in a bolt gun today.

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...me too , and that for almost decades. May be a 450gr bullet could have been better.

Others have recommended the .458 Win Mag use a good 450 grain .458 bullet for the same reasons.
In my .458 2.4 Flanged, the Kodiak 450 grain FMJ has a muzzle velocity of 2150 fps from the 26 inch barrel.
Slightly longer bullets such as NF and Punch approach 2100 fps and yet still shoot through most anything made of muscle and bone.
How to say "to each his own" in Latin?

How to say "to each his own" in Latin?

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Suum cuique , relates to an old greek principle τὸ τὰ αὑτοῦ πράττειν... ( Plato / Politeia IV )

Several people have recommended 450-480 grain bullets. This seams like far less of a compromise, proportionately, with such heavy bullets. The sectional density is still very good but you get a little more powder behind it.

As long as you are using bonded lead bullets you should gain a reasonable amount of powder capacity. Longer, less dense mono-metal bullets would eat up capacity.

Has anyone had good luck or failure with the 450-480 grain bullets?

SV said "Longer, less dense mono-metal bullets would eat up capacity." I agree.

However the Punch bullet made of brass with hollow base filled with lead overcomes some of the "mono metal" length problem.
Plus the Punch has a very high "penetration factor" (did I just make that up?).
In our bullet tests, the 430 grain .458 Punch loaded to less than 2000 fps in the 45-70 case and fired with a Winchester 1886 45-70 a full 50 yards from the 5/8 inch suspended steel target, PUNCHED completely through the target. A clean daylight hole! Naturally it shoots through most game and of particular interest to our field test hunter, Joe, his frontal brain shot went through the ele brain, out the back of the head and into the body; it had to be cut out to be recovered. That shot was with the 1886 Flanged .458 2.4 and the MV was just over 2000 fps.
Not bad for two old fashioned cowboy rifles shooting modern powders and bullets!
Imagine what that same bullet could do if fired from the Winchester M70 bolt action?
Thank you, John Browning!

Nuff said!

crs said:

In our bullet tests, the 430 grain .458 Punch loaded to less than 2000 fps in the 45-70 case and fired with a Winchester 1886 45-70 a full 50 yards from the 5/8 inch suspended steel target, PUNCHED completely through the target. A clean daylight hole!

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Mild steel or AR500?

IMO, with heavy recoiling rifles it is a good idea to crimp into the bullet's crimp groove. It has been obvious to me for a long time that many of the 458 bullets, especially older ones from US manufacturers, were designed to maximize the already limited capacity in the 458 Win Mag. The opposite may be said for some of the "450 Nitro" 458 bullets. It's possible also that the longer throat in a standard 458 Win Mag chamber was purposeful to accommodate the longer nose in front of the crimp groove particularly in the 500 and 510 gr bullets.

The correlation between bullet weight and usable case capacity is a little tricker than: less weight = more capacity if crimp groove is used as it should.

Pic left to right is:
480 gr Hornady DGX, 480 gr 450 Nitro Woodleigh RNSN, 510 gr Winchester Soft Nose