The Resilience Of A Gaur

Wyatt Smith said:
Very exciting indeed, I believe the 423 Mauser is the same as Hoss Delgado beloved 11.2 x 72 schuler. Mr. Rahman May know as he is good friends with Hoss. A 343 grain bullet would have a low sectional density and not penetrate as well as heavier one.
I enjoyed the story!
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Wyatt Smith
Your suggestion was spot on , as always. I did ask Hoss this question right now. He believes that the rifle used by Tobin was a 10.75 × 68 millimeter mauser calibre bolt operation rifle , built by the Belgian firm, Browning .
Back when l knew Tobin in the 1960s decade , l always knew the cartridge as .423 mauser . I have seen a forum member on this site , a gentleman named HWL once post a photograph of a box of cartridges on these forums, identical to the ones which l had seen Tobin use all those years ago .
 
Poton
Another excellent account . I feel as if it were just yesterday . I miss Tobin greatly , as well . He was a really good Shikari .
His Belgian bolt operation .423 mauser rifle was beautiful . It is really depressing that the Browning bolt operation rifles of later vintage used those loathsome salted wood stocks .
 
On the cartridge 423 Mauser or 10.75x68 Mauser.

This cartridge is marginal for hunting buffalo. We do not want to talk about elephant hunting with it , you can forget them there.

The light 347gr bullet caliber 423 has , because of the low powder capacity of the shell , a low muzzle velocity and in addition there was the bad quality of the thin jacketed bullets from RWS. Altogether , there is a lack of penetration and the poor quality bullets broke often in the game. With modern bullets , it is not much better in terms of penetration. This cartridge cannot be compared with the 404 Jeffery.

The 11,2x72 Schüler is a different cartridge , but also a compromise with some problems.
 
The Wikipedia article on the cartridge (10.75x68mm Mauser, also known as the .423 Mauser) mentions that "Taylor was very critical of the cartridge due to its poor sectional density and as a result poor penetration. Taylor stated the fully jacketed versions lacked the penetration for frontal head shots on elephant or shoulder shots on buffalo and the expanding bullets were inadequate on lion and eland."

As mentioned, it does sound like the bullet jackets were also weak.
 
As mentioned, it does sound like the bullet jackets were also weak.
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Not only the jacket of the bullet was the reason , the cartridge is not very powerful for buffalo hunting compared to a 416 Rigby or a 404 Jeffery from the same era.

In any cases , I would not go hunting Gaur with it. I once saw one in the jungle of Malaysia. These buffalos are very big.
 
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Poton, are you beginning to see the beauty of this website? Guys from all over the world are able to participate in a discussion resulting in a conclusion or understanding that is probable, logical and very likely the truth of the matter. I like most Americans have very little knowledge of metric caliber rifles.
 
Kawshik Rahman said:
Poton
Another excellent account . I feel as if it were just yesterday . I miss Tobin greatly , as well . He was a really good Shikari .
His Belgian bolt operation .423 mauser rifle was beautiful . It is really depressing that the Browning bolt operation rifles of later vintage used those loathsome salted wood stocks .
Click to expand...
Oh , yes , Kawshik. I loathed the way those salt treated wooden gun stocks ruined so many otherwise magnificent Browning rifles. I still sometimes wonder why any company would treat their wooden gun stocks in salt , knowing that the rifle would also have metal parts.
 
kurpfalzjäger said:
On the cartridge 423 Mauser or 10.75x68 Mauser.

This cartridge is marginal for hunting buffalo. We do not want to talk about elephant hunting with it , you can forget them there.

The light 347gr bullet caliber 423 has , because of the low powder capacity of the shell , a low muzzle velocity and in addition there was the bad quality of the thin jacketed bullets from RWS. Altogether , there is a lack of penetration and the poor quality bullets broke often in the game. With modern bullets , it is not much better in terms of penetration. This cartridge cannot be compared with the 404 Jeffery.

The 11,2x72 Schüler is a different cartridge , but also a compromise with some problems.
Click to expand...
Thank you , kurpfalzjager for explaining this so precisely. I am confident now that Tobin’s FN .423 Mauser rifle was the 10.75 x 68 calibre which you all mention. A good deal of what you say matches with my own observations. Every time Tobin tried to shoot a royal Bengal tiger or a gaur or a water buffalo with his .423 Mauser , he suffered some serious problems with getting the bullets to penetrate effectively.
The gun was , however , absolutely lethal for panthers and wild boars.
 
perttime said:
The Wikipedia article on the cartridge (10.75x68mm Mauser, also known as the .423 Mauser) mentions that "Taylor was very critical of the cartridge due to its poor sectional density and as a result poor penetration. Taylor stated the fully jacketed versions lacked the penetration for frontal head shots on elephant or shoulder shots on buffalo and the expanding bullets were inadequate on lion and eland."

As mentioned, it does sound like the bullet jackets were also weak.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for helping me find the article about the .423 Mauser calibre on Wikipedia , Perttime . The description given by Mr. Taylor is very consistent with what l myself have observed about this cartridge. Infact , now that you mention it , l recall Tobin always having a very difficult time whenever he shot any dangerous game with his FN .423 Mauser bolt rifle , other than panthers and wild boars . For these 2 animals , the .423 Mauser was very deadly.
 
Shootist43 said:
Poton, are you beginning to see the beauty of this website? Guys from all over the world are able to participate in a discussion resulting in a conclusion or understanding that is probable, logical and very likely the truth of the matter. I like most Americans have very little knowledge of metric caliber rifles.
Click to expand...
Shootist43, l consider myself extremely fortunate to have been introduced to this website and community. Because of all of you gentlemen , l am now being able to properly understand the technical aspects of many things which l had observed , during my time as a professional shikaree. You have a very vast amount of knowledge yourself , and l am still shocked that .405 Winchester cartridges might have actually been available from American companies during the 1960s.
 
I’ve been thinking that even though the .423 Mauser is a poor large game cartridge, Tobin was lucky to have it. Most had to use a truly inferior weapon like Mr. Rahman did with a 12 bore and SG loads. Given a choice I would much rather take the .423
 
Both stories you have written are impressive to say the least. I enjoy the history that many of us will never experience if not for you taking the time to write about it. Thank you for your time and we appreciate everything you write.

I personally am looking forward to more of your personal adventures!
 
I have really enjoyed the discussion of rifles, cartridges, hunting and historical aspects of this thread! Great! But where, o where is Hoss Delgado? I have really missed his input on the many threads and subsequent posts here on AH? I’ve seen not hide nor hair ( so to speak) of him lately here on AH? Just curious?
 
I have added a Gaur Bull photo that demonstrates the incredible muscle of these animals.

gaur bull.jpg
 
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Wyatt Smith said:
I’ve been thinking that even though the .423 Mauser is a poor large game cartridge, Tobin was lucky to have it. Most had to use a truly inferior weapon like Mr. Rahman did with a 12 bore and SG loads. Given a choice I would much rather take the .423
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This , Mr. Smith is a testament to how great a hunter , Kawshik is . Out of all of us , he had to make do with the worst armaments . However , 32 panthers and 4 royal Bengal tigers prove that this did not slow him down , one bit.
 
Inline6 said:
Both stories you have written are impressive to say the least. I enjoy the history that many of us will never experience if not for you taking the time to write about it. Thank you for your time and we appreciate everything you write.

I personally am looking forward to more of your personal adventures!
Click to expand...
Thank you for appreciating . I will write another tonight and l hope that you enjoy it . I have already written a 3rd story on this site last night.
 
CoElkHunter said:
I have really enjoyed the discussion of rifles, cartridges, hunting and historical aspects of this thread! Great! But where, o where is Hoss Delgado? I have really missed his input on the many threads and subsequent posts here on AH? I’ve seen not hide nor hair ( so to speak) of him lately here on AH? Just curious?
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for your appreciation . I used to guide Hoss's father , Manuel Delgado for shikar in Nagpur . I have not yet had a chance to interact with the young man.
 
Wyatt Smith said:
I’ve been thinking that even though the .423 Mauser is a poor large game cartridge, Tobin was lucky to have it. Most had to use a truly inferior weapon like Mr. Rahman did with a 12 bore and SG loads. Given a choice I would much rather take the .423
Click to expand...

I agree with you.

If you only have them available it is still better than something inferior. I don't want to say that you cannot shot a buffalo with it , but if you have the choice of a much more suitable cartridge , like most of us nowadays , then you should choose this one. I write this because there are hunters in our countries who still praise such obsolete cartridges for hunting buffalos. On the other hand , as it has written @Major Khan , it is very effective on wild boars.
 
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