Who made this American Custom Rifle?

rookhawk · Nov 30, 2019

1941 era Winchester model 70 in .270.

factory Winchester barrel.

Who built it? (I don’t think Griffin & Howe)
I think Neidner was closed by the time this was made.

I suspect outworkers from G&H May have had a hand in it. In particular, Thomas Shelhamer perhaps did the stocking? It has a Niedner steel plate. Custom 5 panel bolt knob. G&H style jeweling. G&H sidemount properly installed. Horn tip and cap.

weirdest item: the inletted diamond on the stock and the red liner wood spacer at the forend tip.

thanks for your conjecture on “who dunnit”

Bullthrower338 · Nov 30, 2019

Beautiful rifle Rook!

Mike Van Horn · Nov 30, 2019

Could have been Carman and Sons, Longmont Colorado
I had a custom from them, bought it used, Brno Mauser action, stock checking looked a lot like yours, in .270 win. The only rifle the EX wanted in the divorce, go figure

Bullthrower338 · Nov 30, 2019

Mike Van Horn said:
Could have been Carman and Sons, Longmont Colorado
I had a custom from them, bought it used, Brno Mauser action, stock checking looked a lot like yours, in .270 win. The only rifle the EX wanted in the divorce, go figure

That is why you move ALL firearms out of state in the middle of the night to an undisclosed location! Hard to prove that it wasn’t a Remington 770 when they don’t know where they are at!

Mike Van Horn · Nov 30, 2019

Bullthrower338 said:
That is why you move ALL firearms out of state in the middle of the night to an undisclosed location! Hard to prove that it wasn’t a Remington 770 when they don’t know where they are at!

Now you tell me. Where were you 12 years ago
For me it was a lesson learned and there will not be another

Wade J VanGinkel · Nov 30, 2019

Mike Van Horn said:
Now you tell me. Where were you 12 years ago
For me it was a lesson learned and there will not be another

My ex only took my Smith & Wesson 16-4
I paid 400 new. Bought it back from her for 500 4 years after divorce. Currently running about 1500 so I guess I still made out. Lol

Bullthrower338 · Nov 30, 2019

Hey @rookhawk do you know where to turn up period G&H side mounts? I want one for my G&H rifle, the previous owner took it off and replaced it with a B&L Balvar!

Kawshik Rahman · Nov 30, 2019

I am probably inaccurate . However , l have seen a custom made rifle exactly like this in 1966. It was built by a firm called " Fred Wells " . The rifle in question was also calibrated for the .270 Winchester cartridge .

Bullthrower338 · Nov 30, 2019

Kawshik Rahman said:
I am probably inaccurate . However , l have seen a custom made rifle exactly like this in 1966. It was built by a firm called " Fred Wells " . The rifle in question was also calibrated for the .270 Winchester cartridge .

Fred Wells was a premier gunsmith Mr. Rahman. I had the pleasure of sitting down with him several years before he passed away and he was a great guy. The firm Hallowell and Company in Livingston, Montana has one of his rifles for sale right now. It is chambered in 460 Weatherby Magnum.
http://www.hallowellco.com/frank_wells brevex mauser 460 weatherby.htm

Wyatt Smith · Nov 30, 2019

Does this rifle have the stripper clip guides? The tang appears the pre war, but the safety looks post war. Of course I suppose a master gunsmith could have changed the safety lever.
That is one of the most beautiful pre 64s I’ve seen. And I just love learning about these great rifles.

Bullthrower338 · Nov 30, 2019

Looking at my G&H there are some similar traits

Two panel bolt handle

Pronounced cheek piece with shadow line.
I don’t know if all guns from them were so marked Griffin and Howe or only on ones that were re-bareled such as this one. You would know far more about them than I.

Kawshik Rahman · Dec 1, 2019

Bullthrower338 said:
Fred Wells was a premier gunsmith Mr. Rahman. I had the pleasure of sitting down with him several years before he passed away and he was a great guy. The firm Hallowell and Company in Livingston, Montana has one of his rifles for sale right now. It is chambered in 460 Weatherby Magnum.
http://www.hallowellco.com/frank_wells brevex mauser 460 weatherby.htm

Cody
Thank you so much for making me more aware of who Fred Wells was. I am also fascinated by the fact that the rifle you have shown me , is a .460 Weatherby magnum calibre rifle ( my dream calibre to shoot ) , built on a Brevex magnum mauser mechanism ( my favorite rifle " action" )

Bullthrower338 · Dec 1, 2019

Kawshik Rahman said:
Cody
Thank you so much for making me more aware of who Fred Wells was. I am also fascinated by the fact that the rifle you have shown me , is a .460 Weatherby magnum calibre rifle ( my dream calibre to shoot ) , built on a Brevex magnum mauser mechanism ( my favorite rifle " action" )

I thought I would let you see for yourself that it was built on a Brevex Magnum, at 9500 USD this rifle is priced quite well for one of Fred’s rifles,

rookhawk · Dec 1, 2019

Things I don’t know:

When did lining the forend tip and inletting a diamond into the stock become a thing?

I always associate it with mid-century work?

But it’s got horn grip cap and forend...a niedner/Tom shelhamer style. A proper G&H Mount limiting the list of qualified installers and omitting many that wouldn’t install them. The 5 panel bolt knob exceeds the complexity of G&H models.

The barrel is odd..,has proof stamp of Winchester but doesn’t have sight bulge? Weird.

Custom safety on a 1941 action?

Perhaps made in 1941 as a custom with irons and reworked in 1950s-1960s adding the scope mount and the stock diamond to “Roy Weatherby” dad’s Gun?

@Bullthrower338 yes, only rebarreled guns got a g&h mark and serial number.

rookhawk · Dec 1, 2019

Bullthrower338 said:
Hey @rookhawk do you know where to turn up period G&H side mounts? I want one for my G&H rifle, the previous owner took it off and replaced it with a B&L Balvar!

They abound on eBay and old gun shops. $250-$400. Proper install or reinstall is not trivial, GH wants $350 to install. If you want one with a windage knob, you’ll pay a grand. (Early models)

For $450 you can get a brand new 30mm mount from g&h and “update” the utility of your gun quite a bit.

Bullthrower338 · Dec 1, 2019

I just saw the Diamond. Not my thing but it appears to be done exquisitely well. I have seen them done that look like I did them myself. Lol

Red Leg · Dec 1, 2019

rookhawk said:
They abound on eBay and old gun shops. $250-$400. Proper install or reinstall is not trivial, GH wants $350 to install. If you want one with a windage knob, you’ll pay a grand. (Early models)

For $450 you can get a brand new 30mm mount from g&h and “update” the utility of your gun quite a bit.

Was about to add that G&H will fit one to a rifle today just like back in the day. And if the base is in place, they’ll fit another upper with either 1” or 30mm rings.

rookhawk · Dec 1, 2019

Red Leg said:
Was about to add that G&H will fit one to a rifle today just like back in the day. And if the base is in place, they’ll fit another upper with either 1” or 30mm rings.

Absolutely.

I provided a win70 side safety and my Mauser 375 and my scope.

$1400 later, they provided and installed a 30mm G&H Mount including inletting the stock, bluing the safety, and installing it.

damundsen87 · Dec 2, 2019

Niedner rifle company closed up but he built rifles out of his home until the mid 50s from my understanding. I had a niedner rifle with a 1953 FN commercial action. The stock looks very very similar to some shelhamer stocks that I've seen

Wyatt Smith · Dec 17, 2019

rookhawk said:
Things I don’t know:

When did lining the forend tip and inletting a diamond into the stock become a thing?

I always associate it with mid-century work?

But it’s got horn grip cap and forend...a niedner/Tom shelhamer style. A proper G&H Mount limiting the list of qualified installers and omitting many that wouldn’t install them. The 5 panel bolt knob exceeds the complexity of G&H models.

The barrel is odd..,has proof stamp of Winchester but doesn’t have sight bulge? Weird.

Custom safety on a 1941 action?

Perhaps made in 1941 as a custom with irons and reworked in 1950s-1960s adding the scope mount and the stock diamond to “Roy Weatherby” dad’s Gun?

@Bullthrower338 yes, only rebarreled guns got a g&h mark and serial number.

I noticed today that my 1958 featherweight does not have the sight bulge. Had the featherweight come out yet at this time, or could it be later production barrel installed on an older receiver?

Who made this American Custom Rifle?

rookhawk

Bullthrower338

Mike Van Horn

Bullthrower338

Mike Van Horn

Wade J VanGinkel

Bullthrower338

Kawshik Rahman

Bullthrower338

Wyatt Smith

Bullthrower338

Kawshik Rahman

Bullthrower338

rookhawk

rookhawk

Bullthrower338

Red Leg

rookhawk

damundsen87

Wyatt Smith

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