Our problem

The German philosopher Ludwig von Wittgenstein wrote "the world is everything that is the case."

While a tautology, it bears pondering.

The world, the universe, is a finite set of things which are true.

Outside of that, there is a literal infinite set of things which are not, things which are irrational. Any person given over to irrationalism can make up anything. There are an infinite number of those which can be declared. We are therefore left having to spend our finite time explaining away these irrationalities. Thus, we are always having to play defense.

It has always been like this. It will always be like this. "Eternal vigilance," as America's founders warned us. That is all we have. It's a war that cannot be finished, we can only do our part in the time we have allotted to us.

sgt_zim said:

The German philosopher Ludwig von Wittgenstein wrote "the world is everything that is the case."

While a tautology, it bears pondering.

The world, the universe, is a finite set of things which are true.

Outside of that, there is a literal infinite set of things which are not, things which are irrational. Any person given over to irrationalism can make up anything. There are an infinite number of those which can be declared. We are therefore left having to spend our finite time explaining away these irrationalities. Thus, we are always having to play defense.

It has always been like this. It will always be like this. "Eternal vigilance," as America's founders warned us. That is all we have. It's a war that cannot be finished, we can only do our part in the time we have allotted to us.

Click to expand...

You are drinking - right?

Presently, yes, I am. But I've thought about this for probably 15 years since I first read Tractatus Logico Philosophicus.

sgt_zim said:

The German philosopher Ludwig von Wittgenstein wrote "the world is everything that is the case."

While a tautology, it bears pondering.

The world, the universe, is a finite set of things which are true.

Outside of that, there is a literal infinite set of things which are not, things which are irrational. Any person given over to irrationalism can make up anything. There are an infinite number of those which can be declared. We are therefore left having to spend our finite time explaining away these irrationalities. Thus, we are always having to play defense.

It has always been like this. It will always be like this. "Eternal vigilance," as America's founders warned us. That is all we have. It's a war that cannot be finished, we can only do our part in the time we have allotted to us.

Click to expand...

Sorry it’s what popped into my head first:

You sound like an officer, not an NCO!

Takes all kinds.

I like the Revenge of the Nerds 2, but my mind went here...

...and now I need a drink.

sgt_zim said:

Outside of that, there is a literal infinite set of things which are not, things which are irrational. Any person given over to irrationalism can make up anything. There are an infinite number of those which can be declared.

Click to expand...

Sgt. Zim
When l was child , comic books used to be available in book shops : Bat man , Super man , Wonder woman . We could purchase an issue for fifty paise . Initially , l was an avid reade of them . However , l noticed an oddity. These books painted fire arms in a very negative light. The super heroes were using their super powers to defeat evil people who always carried fire arms. It then occurred to me that the writers were using fiction and fictional characters , to paint fire arms as evil to the youth who reads them. Indian cinema always portrays hunters are wantonly evil ( and willing to rape and murder other humans ).
So , you are accurate in your observation.
The irrational will always create fiction to fight the rational. Sadly , these days , the youth and young generation favor fiction over fact.

exactly so.

;ajf0ade0fjafo0pj2309jmn is the equivalent of "guns bad" or "hunters are bad people." The fact that some meaning can be derived from the latter 2 doesn't make them rational, when they are every bit as non-sensical as the former. There is literally no end to the number of non-sensical things people can utter, things which cause thought pictures to form in people's minds.

I frequently hear our adversaries say "be reasonable" on things like gun control or trophy hunting. I *always* stop them short and reply "do you want me to be agreeable, or reasonable? Because what you're really asking of me (of us) is to agree with you, not to use the faculty of reason."

The fight for reason will never end. Just be prepared to carry the fight to your grave, and hope you've influenced enough people to hew to reason.

sgt_zim said:

The world, the universe, is a finite set of things which are true.

Click to expand...

From the strict human perspective, this may be true.

But I would argue that from a spiritual perspective there is One who is not only infinite but also rational.

He is also sovereign.

So this rational, infinite, sovereign One can deal with the nonsense puny humans put up, and we can be content to do what we can, knowing that ultimately, the final results are His.

My puny $0.02 as always!


Tim

And that why people who dont know the different from Disney word and the real world is pronounced crazy.

tarbe said:

From the strict human perspective, this may be true.

But I would argue that from a spiritual perspective there is One who is not only infinite but also rational.

He is also sovereign.

So this rational, infinite, sovereign One can deal with the nonsense puny humans put up, and we can be content to do what we can, knowing that ultimately, the final results are His.

My puny $0.02 as always!


Tim

Click to expand...

He can, but we are bound to live on this earth. If King David is correct, and we are only slightly less than the angels, I see no reason to not fight for, and to not tolerate, anything less.

The Sovereign may choose to reveal things to whomever He decides. But we have only our brains for our survival. We are physically weak, slow, have poor vision, hearing, and smell. Have neither claws nor fangs nor wings, nor fins with which to swim. Whosoever disavows his rational mind disavows the only Gift with which we have been endowed, and makes himself even lower than the animals, because animals at least have other physical attributes which help them survive, which are indeed part of their nature. The rational mind is ours.

The wantonly irrational are our mortal enemies, and we must fight every day as if it is true, because simply put, it is true.

Ah, but if we believe in a supreme and rational being, and our goal is to emulate Him, then we must, as you say, strive to also be rational.

sgt_zim said:

Presently, yes, I am. But I've thought about this for probably 15 years since I first read Tractatus Logico Philosophicus.

Click to expand...

And no misspelled words! Congrats!

tarbe said:

Ah, but if we believe in a supreme and rational being, and our goal is to emulate Him, then we must, as you say, strive to also be rational.

Click to expand...

I do. But as I pointed out in the post that started this thread, our adversaries are those who do not. It's a fight without an end.

Thanks be to Him we have the power of reason.That separates us from the "lower" forms of life. However, to some people reason is only what they believe without tolerance for what others believe. This is the constant unwinnable battle--for both sides. Whoever will be victorious remains to be seen.

Newboomer said:

Thanks be to Him we have the power of reason.That separates us from the "lower" forms of life. However, to some people reason is only what they believe without tolerance for what others believe. This is the constant unwinnable battle--for both sides. Whoever will be victorious remains to be seen.

Click to expand...

Reason doesn't require belief. I don't *believe* G = 9.8 m/s/s, I know that it is. I don't *believe* the wantonly irrational is immoral, I know that it is. The moral is life-sustaining, even life-uplifting. The wantonly irrational is nihilistic.

Our senses help us acquire facts, but our faculty of reason is what enables us to sort the facts into congruency with reality. The nearer our perceptions align with reality, the more likely our success is, whatever the endeavor.

Enough of this philosophizing. Let us tend to our garden. Candide.

I am not convinced known other than human life on this planet is incapable of reason, just as I am unable to believe irrationality is necessarily in and of itself always other than good. I am an absolutely data driven individual with a long track record of high reviews and test scores in the area of reason and critical thinking. I had a very successful career in my subpart of my field of employment directly due to these traits. I have few artistic talents, cooking (especially done outdoors) and humor (especially with a dark streak) have been the only recognized artistic pursuits / hobbies I have ever really received feedback on as talented.

However, we are all endowed with emotion. We are not designed to be emotionless, no more so than perhaps a dog who brain scans have shown the same areas of the brain fire up in response to sight of a beneficial family member as a human's brain in the same circumstances.

For discussion of higher powers, do not all such texts speak of emotionally driven standards, and perilous events for incurring the wrath of such powers, as well as reward for pleasing such powers (the world of H. P. Lovecraft aside). Can any of us posting say we have never had at least one beneficial emotional relationship, and at least one tragic, even toxic, such relationship? Neither are possible in the realm of the purely rational.

Extremes are only for extremists. Only a Sith deals in absolutes.