Zastava 458 WM action length

Looking at another 458 lott is the action length of the zastava 458 WM long enough to rechamber or is it a blown out standard length action

kiwihunter 260 said:

Looking at another 458 lott is the action length of the zastava 458 WM long enough to rechamber or is it a blown out standard length action

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Good question. You’re come to the right place here on AH with ALL of the experts on Mauser type actions. I’m NO expert, but I do own a Interarms Whitworth (Zastava) in .375 h and h. From what I’ve read here on AH, something is modified forward on the Mauser actions to create a magnum length action for a cartridge length like the .375. I don’t know if the .458 WM action has that modification for the .458 Lott length? Someone here though WILL know if they’ll respond to your thread.

I'm not sure about the recent Zastavas but the Interarms ones, including .375 H&H, and all others that I have seen, have been built on standard length action.

Recent Zastavas are same as earlier ones with same actions.
Factory produces standard 375 H&H and 458 W.M. rifles.

But doesn’t the .375s length requires a magnum action, which would be the same for a .458 Lott cartridge?

It does not "require" it. The longer action is just better suited for it. Also is not Zastava made in .458 WM rather than .458 Lott? That said, I would not use the likes of magnum CZ 550 action on anything smaller than 458 Lott. I have one Zastava (Interarms Mark X) in .375 H&H and the rifle is slimmer, lighter and handier than CZ 550 Magnum in the same caliber. Once you step up to 416 Rigby, .458 Lott or .505 Gibbs and the like the bigger magnum action seems to come into its own. Basically any cases that fill the magazine well more than the relatively slim .375 H&H. This might also apply to .416 RM and maybe even the .458 Lott. But the Lott has more recoil, than the other slim ones, so bigger rifle in general seem better too. All this is just MHO.

Milan said:

It does not "require" it. The longer action is just better suited for it. Also is not Zastava made in .458 WM rather than .458 Lott? That said, I would not use the likes of magnum CZ 550 action on anything smaller than 458 Lott. I have one Zastava (Interarms Mark X) in .375 H&H and the rifle is slimmer, lighter and handier than CZ 550 Magnum in the same caliber. Once you step up to 416 Rigby, .458 Lott or .505 Gibbs and the like the bigger magnum action seems to come into its own. Basically any cases that fill the magazine well more than the relatively slim .375 H&H. This might also apply to .416 RM and maybe even the .458 Lott. But the Lott has more recoil, than the other slim ones, so bigger rifle in general seem better too. All this is just MHO.

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Good point on the CZ vs. the Zastava. My Whitworth.375 is lighter and the action smoother than my CZ .458 WM. But I really love my CZ. BUT, I don’t know about a Lott in the Zastava action? It would work, but I would stay with the beefier, heavy CZ in a Lott? But, I’ll shoot anything ONCE to see if I like it! If I don’t like it, theres always Toby 458 to sell it to. Ha! Ha! Ha!

CoElkHunter said:

Good point on the CZ vs. the Zastava. My Whitworth.375 is lighter and the action smoother than my CZ .458 WM. But I really love my CZ. BUT, I don’t know about a Lott in the Zastava action? It would work, but I would stay with the beefier, heavy CZ in a Lott? But, I’ll shoot anything ONCE to see if I like it! If I don’t like it, theres always Toby 458 to sell it to. Ha! Ha! Ha!

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I agree with that. Mine is a Whitworth also and it is one slick rifle. And really what I mean by "slim" cartridge is more a bit before and at the shoulder and bullet end of things. The .375 is simply slimmer than the Lott. This way they kind of still feed ok even in the slimmer rails of standard action. The 458 WM is no slimmer than the Lott but it is shorter so still probably a decent fit to this action. 458 Lott I find almost perfect for the 602 and then of course the bigger fatter cartridges also.

All good points. I agree as a neophyte big bore aficionado with just my .375 and .458 so far. I really enjoy shooting both of them though. I’m currently accumulating brass and bullets to reload the .458 to enjoy the experience even more.

Enjoy your .458 CoElkHunter. I sold all my .416 and .458 rifles, only the .375 remains. It too may go as I have a 9.3x62. But the Withworth is so nice, I may just keep it anyway. I don't miss any of the others but the CZ550 .458 Lott. That was one nice rifle. I was going to have the barrel shortened and then everything cerakoted. It had the synthetic stock and would make a great bush gun.

Kiwihunter 260, I'm sure you could have the 458 rechambered to Lott but I wonder how much would would the rails and feed ramp be, plus maybe machining back of the action if it has not been done for the shorter WM. Almost a shame to do that to a handy 458 WM. Then again, why not? Let us know what you decide and how it turns out.

Just FYI, but there is a Whitworth in .458 Lott (re-chambered from .458 WM) for sale right now on Gun Broker in the U.S. I’ve never seen a Whitworth for sale with this re-chambering before? So, in theory I guess it does work? One wouldn’t know though until this rifle was tested for feeding issues?

I think this might be of interest to the OP.
For me, it sounds cool. But as mentioned before, I like the Whitworth because it is slim and trim. Therefore I will stick with 375 H&H as max. If I do a Lott, I will get a CZ 550 magnum and trim the barrel and stock to make it slimmer, shorter and lighter but not as slim or trim as the Whitworth. I would leave a big enough belly for the magazine to hold 5, and then just rim away some fat. With bigger action and mag and bottom metal and fatter stock one has to end up with heavier, bulkier rifle regardless. Though with trimming the barrel might bring it close to overall weight of the Whitworth. The beauty of it is that you can keep trimming until you hit that perfect size and weight.

Milan said:

I think this might be of interest to the OP.
For me, it sounds cool. But as mentioned before, I like the Whitworth because it is slim and trim. Therefore I will stick with 375 H&H as max. If I do a Lott, I will get a CZ 550 magnum and trim the barrel and stock to make it slimmer, shorter and lighter but not as slim or trim as the Whitworth. I would leave a big enough belly for the magazine to hold 5, and then just rim away some fat. With bigger action and mag and bottom metal and fatter stock one has to end up with heavier, bulkier rifle regardless. Though with trimming the barrel might bring it close to overall weight of the Whitworth. The beauty of it is that you can keep trimming until you hit that perfect size and weight.

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Milan,
I completely agree with you having the CZ in the Lott and not the Zastava action in the Lott. I think the OP might find this interesting though.
CEH

yes. I find it interesting too. Let's hope he chimes in.

I, personally, would not bother rechambering these days.
Especially so if the magazine of the particular rifle allows the loaded Win mag rounds to be loaded out to 3.6 o/a, then at the same pressure the Win mag is 50 - 80 fps behind the Lott.

Most people say that the Lott runs at a regular 2400fps for the 500gn slug.
I say bullshit.
A lott loaded to 2400fps will be at it's max pressure threshold and something I do not want to be out in the field with, sorry.

I have owned and hunted with three different Lotts over a period of over thirty years.
My very best chronographed loads that I could actually hunt with were in the 2280fps region.
In a rifle that allows loading the Win mag to 3.6 o/a it is not difficult to get 500gn pills up to 2200fps and some change. F/all difference.

More important to me would be the pill that you are loading, especially so if it is being intended for thick skinned game hunting.

The cartridge stay in the chamber.
The projectile does the damage !

PaulT said:

I, personally, would not bother rechambering these days.
Especially so if the magazine of the particular rifle allows the loaded Win mag rounds to be loaded out to 3.6 o/a, then at the same pressure the Win mag is 50 - 80 fps behind the Lott.

Most people say that the Lott runs at a regular 2400fps for the 500gn slug.
I say bullshit.
A lott loaded to 2400fps will be at it's max pressure threshold and something I do not want to be out in the field with, sorry.

I have owned and hunted with three different Lotts over a period of over thirty years.
My very best chronographed loads that I could actually hunt with were in the 2280fps region.
In a rifle that allows loading the Win mag to 3.6 o/a it is not difficult to get 500gn pills up to 2200fps and some change. F/all difference.

More important to me would be the pill that you are loading, especially so if it is being intended for thick skinned game hunting.

The cartridge stay in the chamber.
The projectile does the damage !

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PaulT,
You have an excellent point on not bothering with the Lott re-chambering from the WM. The factory Barnes TSX loads I have been shooting in my .458 WM state on the box 450gr. at 2240fps. My CZ has a 25” barrel, so the velocity is probably pretty close to what Barnes is stating. My problem (like others here) is that I haven’t shot anything with this cartridge yet, so I don’t know how this would stack up against the Lott? But maybe the velocity difference with the same weight bullet is a moot point?
CEH

The Zastava 375 action is the same as the 458 action. They cut back the feed ramp about 0.200" to accommodate the longer round. On the 458 the rails are opened up more to accommodate fatter bullets up front. You could start with either action for the Lott. On the 375 you might have to widen the front of the magazine box and rework the feed rails. On the 458 you will certainly have to lengthen the magazine box and move the feed ramp forward. The rails nught be ok as is. Here are some measurements. Please note that Zastava did not lengthen the throw of the bolt rearward to gain the additional clearance. It is all taken from the front of the action.

Here are the dimensions for the .458 Win Mag.
.458 Winchester Magnum
Bolt face to feed ramp: 3.581"
Below is the width of the opening between the feed rails as measured going forward from the bolt face
0.500" from bolt face width is .627"
1.00" from bolt face width is 0.620"
1.500" from bolt face width is 0.617"
2.000" from bolt face width is 0.620"
2.500" from bolt face width is 0.615"
3.000" from bolt face width is 0.571"
3.300" from bolt face width is 0.528"
Forward of that you enter the radius of the feed ramp

Magazine Box:
Length: 3.404
Width at Rear: 0.900
Width 3.300" from rear: .721
Forward of that you are in the radius of the front wall

375 H&H
Bolt face to feed ramp: 3.78""
Below is the width of the opening between the feed rails as measured going forward from the bolt face
0.500" from bolt face width is .611"
1.00" from bolt face width is 0.619"
1.50" from bolt face width is 0.612"
2.00" from bolt face width is 0.612"
2.50" from bolt face width is 0.612"
3.00" from bolt face width is 0.588"
3.25" from bolt face width is 0.577"
3.50" from the bolt face width is 0.559"
Forward of that you enter the radius of the feed ramp

Magazine Box:
Length: 3.67"
Width at Rear: 0.916"
Width 3.500" from rear: .708
Forward of that you are in the radius of the front wall



The bolt does not go any further back than on the 458 Win Mag. It appears that Zastava gained all of the additional clearance strictly from the front of the action. Distance from the rear face of the recoil lug to the edge of the feed ramp on the 458 action is 0.881" and on the 375 action it is 0.631"
Top

@Dale Wade, I agree with you on the action. Zastava takes out the ramp. I have a modified VZ 24 action that somebody machined in the back to open it up for .375 H&H, then they machined the stripper clip groove to bigger opening to ease hand loading from the top yet they never made it feed, the stock was too shallow in the magazine area, the bottom metal was out of a ZKK 600 and machined off (??) as far as I can tell...anyway, I figured I could butcher this one further and see if I can make it into a .404. Well I had to take the ramp off due to the bottom metal and magazine I want to use, which happens to be more forward. So now the whole action is quite open. But the point I'm trying to make is that it is not necessarily bad to take a bit off the ramp and given some magazine and bottom metal combinations it may be the only way to extend it. At first I was sorry I did mine that way but then I examined the Zastava and figured, hmmm, maybe it will work OK.

But as Paul T says, in this case.... why bother? Other than "I really want a Lott" (which I would understand also).

My unmodified 458 is more than enough. With todays powders it will get over 2100 fps no problem. I often wonder why Winchester didn't run with a 450 or 480 grain bullet instead of the 500 on this cartridge.

for what its worth my cz550 safari 458winmag would feed and chamber 458 lott from the factory... the bolt wouldnt quite close though from memory or it was tight...

from what i gather my gun smith just had to run a 458lott reamer into the chamber...not much work at all.

for what it was factory cz550 was like $1550 aud 2 years ago... and around $600 to rechamber it, add barrel band sling point, buffalo horn patch for the old sling point.
double sling mount on the butt.
for $2150 aud seemed like very good value for money.