Is civil war possible in America

lwaters said:

Seriously doubt that it would last long. The U.S. military has incredible technology that would make an AR about as effective as a BB gun.

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If that were true why don’t we own Afghanistan and Iraq? The truth is no army has yet figured out how to defeat a determined man with a rifle.

cbvanb said:

If that were true why don’t we own Afghanistan and Iraq? The truth is no army has yet figured out how to defeat a determined man with a rifle.

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We could easily defeat them. There's a lot of money made in a drawn out conflict. It could be won in a few days. Might take a few nuclear weapons.

cbvanb said:

If that were true why don’t we own Afghanistan and Iraq? The truth is no army has yet figured out how to defeat a determined man with a rifle.

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Really? How did that work out for the Confederacy or Boers? Pretty determined fellows one and all.

Are we forgetting the world war that is going on right now? It's cyberwar, one nation's smart guys against the other's. Think about the military in the U.S. A few smart guys could cripple it overnight, same with law enforcement, all almost completely dependent on software driven communication. Enemy is in Wyoming? Shut down the grid in Wyoming. Shut down their cell towers. If, and it's a big if, there were a civil war, it will be fought on computer screens, not on a battlefield.

badsection said:

79 year old 17 term speaker of the house is 3rd in line of succession. Gag!

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Scary!

Red Leg said:

Really? How did that work out for the Confederacy or Boers? Pretty determined fellows one and all.

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Fair enough, but give me an example in this century. War was truly waged in those days, and it wasn’t technology that won your examples, it was lack of material support. In recent history, The Soviets had a massive advantage in technology in Afghanistan, the will to commit any atrocity in order to win, no meaningful protests at home, and they still couldn’t defeat the home team. I submit that Americans attacked by their own government will make the Afghanis look like Sunday School teachers, and government technology won’t carry the day. As for the cynical view that wars are prolonged to enhance profits, that is pure fantasy. No doubt a lot of people make a lot of money on war, but the notion that war is merely another profit making scheme is ludicrous. In this country the means of production would be attacked fairly quickly, eliminating the ability to profit, and leveling the playing field militarily.
If we disagree on all this so be it. I’ve debated this with people who know, for 40 years, and war always come down to “boots on the ground”. In other words, a man with a rifle.

I agree! The youth of this country...with the exception of the few.....are lazy, brain washed idiots who as long as mommy and daddy buy their bills.....are the lambs that are being led to slaughter.

The young that are raised to believe and defend their rights as so governed by the Constitution will join and resist any type of Marshall Law.

However, the "Baby Boomer" generation is still alive and well, and feared by those wanting to change our democracy to socialism. Even though our numbers are declining, we are at that age....I (WE) don't give a shit about dieing for our country and the rights of (our) children to live free and independent of any tryrantical/oppressive government.

So, Yes! This country (the USA) is on the verge of another Civil War. When? Who knows??? What will be the catalyst??? And who will, or will not, be on which side???
Remember, our military has families, friends, and an obligation to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.

Thereby, this Civil War will fought about ideology of those politicians and their rich friends wanting a socialism dictatorial government vs a democracy type government, (i.e. as what is currently going on in Hong Kong) with exception the people will be well armed with weapons and ammunition for those weapons. Not just with molatove cocktails, rocks, and such...virtually undefendable.

The key factor:

1. Democrats must divide the country. Such as they are doing.

Race against race. Anti hunters/ Anti gun ownership/Control advocates vs hunters, gun owners. Such as they are doing. Politically. Such that they can seize and control the governmental powers. No more divide Congress, no more s
Supreme Court, no more Executive branch. Such as they are doing. Educational Corruption. Such as they are doing. Media control, such as they are doing.

2. Next will come Political, Educational, anti-ideological assassinations, ( by killing or deflamation). Economic Corruption and Control.

3. If not a coup-de -ta, then an attempt at a military coup. I say attempt as I believe the rank and file of our military will not support a military coup, thus reestablishment of our democracy such as our fore father's intended.

During these 3 stages as I have outlined, many other factors will be taking place, lawlessness, the ability of states to govern themselves, fraudulent elections.

Now some of you may think and I will not hold it against you for thinking I'm a extremist it a nut job. I can assure you I'm neither. I just laid out a diagram of how to take over a "Third World" country.

Examples: Nicaragua, Columbia,
Panama, Chili, Equador, Nigeria, Somalia, Afghanistan (didn't work for Russia) ( now we are fighting the terrorist there and throughout the Mideast as a result). The various other areas though out Africa.

Can it happen here in the US, not likely because we are not a third world country. Although the Democratic party would like us to be a third world country to make the outline above plausible.

The outline above has and is used by unnamed countries still today, all around the globe. To influence a "world" order. Only these events are seldom if ever seen on our (US) nightly news. These are clandestine operations conducted in parts of the world by "strong" nations, seeking more power and "whatever" reasons.

Those of us who have been to Africa know the areas or have read even here on AH the trouble in many areas of Africa. Yet how many of us have seen anything routinely about the various conflicts going on in Africa. The same can be said for Central and South American countries.

IF the American people really knew what our government has done and is still doing. As a nation we would hang every politian regardless of party!

So help me with this @cbvanb I am trying to find an example that would be apples to apples. Vietnam and Afghanistan were more guerrilla wars waged against foreign occupation (with an ethnic component to it fueling resistance). Vietnam was also really an extension of the colonial rebellion - at least from their perspective. The Spanish Civil War is the most obvious Civil conflict in this century, but it’s hard to pick the beleaguered rifleman in your example. Obviously, foreign intervention tipped scales in both directions. The Hungarian people tried to throw off the Soviet installed government, put the Russians rolled in and crushed that - along with the later Prague Spring. The most recent Chinese “awakening” probably doesn’t count because the students were unable to seriously defend themselves.

So back to this country. Who would our military be “attacking”? I mean what would be the catalyst to send the ready Brigade of the 82d to occupy ..... What? Where? For Second Amendment focused citizens let’s imagine a worst case ban on AR platform rifles and greater than 10 rd mags. Let’s further worse case it and say the ban includes a mandatory buy back by X date. Remember, none of this happens unless a law is enacted by elected representatives and it survives a Supreme Court challenge.

Do you really think the federal government will send the 82d door to door or even the sheriff's Department? Of course not. It will simply be a felony to own one. As long as it is locked away, no one will care. Keep it locked away for the zombie apocalypse. However, take it out to the boonies to shoot it and get pulled over for whatever reason and risk going to jail for a long time. Moreover, I suspect the vast majority of owners would comply - however grudgingly.

And a civil revolt over what else? 10% increase in taxes of those making more than a mil a year? Expanding Medicare to more citizens (at my age I am pretty glad to have it)? What would be the catalyst to really cause a war - hyperventilating on the web - sure - but to take a firearm and decide to shoot a fellow citizen? I think we are a long way from that.

And fully agree, no one in the military or defense establishment likes or tries to prolong conflict. Had pretty responsible jobs in both.

MS Hitman said:

The war of northern aggression (1861-1865) was not a civil war as the South wanted to be left alone, but Lincoln’s central government wouldn’t let the revenue from the South go, so he ordered an invasion.

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@MS Hitman . Lincoln was in office all of one month when the first shot of the US Civil War was fired. That first shot was the Confederates shelling Ft. Sumter, SC. The south wanted slavery and the Federal government was pushing to do away with it. Southern states decided to seceded from the Union and Lincoln wanted to preserve the Union.

Very late in the war, when Gen William T Sherman made his march to the sea through Georgia he then turned north in what was referred to the Carolina Campaign. BTW, Sherman was the Superintendent at LSU in 1859. Sherman had a personal dislike for South Carolina, since they had been the first state to secede and in essense started the Civil War.

This concludes this brief history lesson.

Red Leg said:

So help me with this @cbvanb I am trying to find an example that would be apples to apples. Vietnam and Afghanistan were more guerrilla wars waged against foreign occupation (with an ethnic component to it fueling resistance). Vietnam was also really an extension of the colonial rebellion - at least from their perspective. The Spanish Civil War is the most obvious Civil conflict in this century, but it’s hard to pick the beleaguered rifleman in your example. Obviously, foreign intervention tipped scales in both directions. The Hungarian people tried to throw off the Soviet installed government, put the Russians rolled in and crushed that - along with the later Prague Spring. The most recent Chinese “awakening” probably doesn’t count because the students were unable to seriously defend themselves.

So back to this country. Who would our military be “attacking”? I mean what would be the catalyst to send the ready Brigade of the 82d to occupy ..... What? Where? For Second Amendment focused citizens let’s imagine a worst case ban on AR platform rifles and greater than 10 rd mags. Let’s further worse case it and say the ban includes a mandatory buy back by X date. Remember, none of this happens unless a law is enacted by elected representatives and it survives a Supreme Court challenge.

Do you really think the federal government will send the 82d door to door or even the sheriff's Department? Of course not. It will simply be a felony to own one. As long as it is locked away, no one will care. Keep it locked away for the zombie apocalypse. However, take it out to the boonies to shoot it and get pulled over for whatever reason and risk going to jail for a long time. Moreover, I suspect the vast majority of owners would comply - however grudgingly.

And a civil revolt over what else? 10% increase in taxes of those making more than a mil a year? Expanding Medicare to more citizens (at my age I am pretty glad to have it)? What would be the catalyst to really cause a war - hyperventilating on the web - sure - but to take a firearm and decide to shoot a fellow citizen? I think we are a long way from that.

And fully agree, no one in the military or defense establishment likes or tries to prolong conflict. Had pretty responsible jobs in both.

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Ike did send in the 101st Airborne to Little Rock in 1957.........to keep the peace.

375 Ruger Fan said:

Ike did send in the 101st Airborne to Little Rock in 1957.........to keep the peace.

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Yes. Good point. And the National Guard has been used quite a bit. I may be wrong to do so, but I am separating in my mind civil disturbances like riots from true civil war.

375 Ruger Fan said:

@MS Hitman . Lincoln was in office all of one month when the first shot of the US Civil War was fired. That first shot was the Confederates shelling Ft. Sumter, SC. The south wanted slavery and the Federal government was pushing to do away with it. Southern states decided to seceded from the Union and Lincoln wanted to preserve the Union.

Very late in the war, when Gen William T Sherman made his march to the sea through Georgia he then turned north in what was referred to the Carolina Campaign. BTW, Sherman was the Superintendent at LSU in 1859. Sherman had a personal dislike for South Carolina, since they had been the first state to secede and in essense started the Civil War.

This concludes this brief history lesson.

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As an only lightly reconstructed Southerner (and that hasn't taken well), I tend to agree that the American Civil War wasn't. It really was the War Between the States. Two regions of the country battling rather than two ideological or even political factions (remember plenty of Democrats remained in the North - enough to threaten Lincoln's reelection in'64.)

We are effectively in a cold war. Democrats vs. Republicans. The Liberals didn't like the outcome of 2016 election, and are trying to change it by taking down Trump and his conservative base of constituents.
The Democrats have sunk to the lowest level of politics. As Obi Wan said, "a wretched hive of scum and villainy".

We are already seeing the violence of ANTIFA. Democrat politicians urging constituents into violence against Trump supporters. The Liberal media, constantly stirring the shit pot for the left.

Any form of violent civil war, would only happen if one of the radical Dem dictator wannabe's took control of the Whitehouse.
It would probably end up as Gorilla warfare, as even a well armed rebel militia wouldn't stand a chance against the military. Unless the military refused to turn on armed citizens.
Why do you think a President like Obama got rid of so many high ranking military officers that didn't share his political views? Why did Obama weaponize so many branches of the Federal government? FBI, DOJ, IRS EPA, Etc.

Barrack Hussein Obama. A disciple of Saul Alinsky.

Obama was paving the way for the next Democrat President.....aka....Hillary Clinton, who many thought would be a sure thing.

Hence, the outrage.

The picture below is of the Carter House in Franklin, TN. I drove by this house several times a week during the 5 years Team Fet lived in Tennessee. Franklin, TN is a lovely town just south of Nashville, TN.
The picture below is the view you would have had if you walked out of the front door of the Carter House on December 1, 1864.



What do you believe in so strongly that you are willing to go down this path again?

375 Ruger Fan said:

Ike did send in the 101st Airborne to Little Rock in 1957.........to keep the peace.

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Ike also warned us about the defense industrial complex.

A civil war is citizens vs citizens. A revolutionary war is citizens vs their government. Which is under discussion here?

Rum Runner said:

A civil war is citizens vs citizens. A revolutionary war is citizens vs their government. Which is under discussion here?

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Current situations, would suggest a mixture of both.?

Facinating discussion gentlmen with the true respect shown for other viewpoints that is the mark of this forum

Door to door confiscation has already occurred--in New Orleans after the hurricane--LOCAL officials decided they could do it and did...see the NRA youtube on it. Scary

I think we are not even close to a civil war, or a revolutionary war. We are simply seeing politics in action in a much more visible manner with the internet. And it is messy and nasty, but not to the level of creating divisions that would send the nation to war against itself.

This is why we all hunt, so we can escape the day to day crazy that is politics and news.