Great Cats & Shotguns (Personal Experiences)

mark-hunter said:

Another great article.
Thank you for you time and effort!

Reading previous posts on similar subject, I can only say:
That we, as clients, will never reach experience of a professional hunter, or guide.
For this reason I am grateful, to have opportunity to learn on this forum from proffesionals. Same thanks to other forum member: @IvW.

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Mark Hunter
And l would have been extraordinarily fortunate to have such an appreciative client such as yourself during my youth.

Pondoro said:

Very interesting article…..I have a copy of the ICI catalouge that Hoss copied from and always wondered how/if the Lethal Ball and Destructor ammo was used on game and to what effect..

Could you please enlighten us as to what damage the Lethal Ball did compared with say buck shot..?

Again...very interesting to read these stories from a Professional in India..

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Pondoro
Thank you so much for your support . I am a very big admirer of the Kynoch 12 bore lethal ball cartridge. It was very effective for leopards , boars , Sambhar deer , Royal Bengal tiger and even ( in extreme situations ) Gaur , if your aim was correctly placed in the soft part behind the beast's shoulder.
It is my earnest hope that , someday some firm will re begin their manufacture again . The modern sportsman would enjoy them , l should think.
They used to be available in 67 millimeter cartridge and 70 millimeter cartridge.
During my childhood , when some small stocks of imported ammunition was still available in India , my late father would order these from Calcutta to use in his I Hollis 12 bore side by side shot-gun with 67 millimeter chambers . Below , is a picture of father teaching me to shoot his I Hollis 12 bore , loaded with Kynoch lethal ball when l was a child.
The bullet used to break apart inside the beast and the damage to their vital organs ( such as lungs or heart ) was considerable. You gentlemen would definitely like them very much.

spike.t said:

Very interesting and well written..... Never seen those different kynoch shotgun rounds before.... So thanks for the info on them......and appreciate you putting your past experiences on here for us to read and enjoy

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Spike T
Thank you so much for always supporting me from my very first day , here.

Real world info is so valuable! Thank you sir for taking the time to report it!

Ridgewalker said:

Real world info is so valuable! Thank you sir for taking the time to report it!

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Ridge Walker
Thank you so much for taking the time to read it.

Very interesting story!

larry4831 said:

Very interesting story!

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Larry 4831
Thank you for being so kind

Kwashik.............it would be an honor........................Bill

Excellent article, thank you for taking the time to give us some perspective on hunting cats during a bygone era of which most of us can only daydream about.

cls said:

Excellent article, thank you for taking the time to give us some perspective on hunting cats during a bygone era of which most of us can only daydream about.

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Cls
Thank you so much for your kind words.

Thank you again, Mr. Rahman, the experiences of real professionals like you are very valuable to us hunters.

Thank you for sharing your in field experiences and of times never to be repeated. Many people do not understand that even as professionals what had to be done had to be done with what was available. The love of the sport and the job title necessitated that. Thank you for sharing these great experiences and real world situations.

Hunters greetings
IvW

IvW said:

Thank you for sharing your in field experiences and of times never to be repeated. Many people do not understand that even as professionals what had to be done had to be done with what was available. The love of the sport and the job title necessitated that. Thank you for sharing these great experiences and real world situations.

Hunters greetings
IvW

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IvW
When l read your comment on large size shot for dangerous animals , l knew immediately that you are either a fellow Shikari or a forest department officer who has dealt with problem causing animal disposal. These days gentlemen place too much faith on papers and not practicality. Hoss Delgado told me that you are also a professional hunter. I have read , with great enthusiasm , your article about compliant and non compliant clients and it amuses me that things have not changed one bit in fifty years. With no disrespect intended to clients , some will listen , while others will try to give logic . It was always Shikars with the latter which proved to be difficult. I look forward to reading many of your articles. I read one of yours today called poor man’s double barrel rifle and it reminded me , in many ways of my own actions.
If l had a magnum .375 double barrel rifle with two triggers , no automatic safety and 26 inch barrels , then l would never have picked up a shot-gun for dangerous animals at all. And if l had more Kynoch lethal ball cartridges , l never would have picked up an SG cartridge. Today , l salute your mature choice to use German slug projectiles. They are the only sane choice for a shot-gun used against dangerous animals.
Hunters greetings.
Sgt. Kawshik Rahman ( Retd )

Kawshik Rahman said:

IvW
When l read your comment on large size shot for dangerous animals , l knew immediately that you are either a fellow Shikari or a forest department officer who has dealt with problem causing animal disposal. These days gentlemen place too much faith on papers and not practicality. Hoss Delgado told me that you are also a professional hunter. I have read , with great enthusiasm , your article about compliant and non compliant clients and it amuses me that things have not changed one bit in fifty years. With no disrespect intended to clients , some will listen , while others will try to give logic . It was always Shikars with the latter which proved to be difficult. I look forward to reading many of your articles. I read one of yours today called poor man’s double barrel rifle and it reminded me , in many ways of my own actions.
If l had a magnum .375 double barrel rifle with two triggers , no automatic safety and 26 inch barrels , then l would never have picked up a shot-gun for dangerous animals at all. And if l had more Kynoch lethal ball cartridges , l never would have picked up an SG cartridge. Today , l salute your mature choice to use German slug projectiles. They are the only sane choice for a shot-gun used against dangerous animals.
Hunters greetings.
Sgt. Kawshik Rahman ( Retd )

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I feel exactly the same way. I have also had to do what I had to do with what I had at the time. If only I had the funds at my disposal to buy what would have been the ideal weapons for the task at hand.....
Having said that I may not have had the fun and experiences I have had with the ones I had and used...

I salute you.
S/Sgt IvW(Retd)

Nyati said:

Thank you again, Mr. Rahman, the experiences of real professionals like you are very valuable to us hunters.

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Nyati
Thank you so much for your supportive words.

First off, thank you so much for writing these articles. I pulled up every one you have written so far and am going through all of them eagerly. They are extremely well written and I am enjoying them very much.

To the African hunters on this board, I have a question. I remember reading an article in a gun magazine some time ago where the author said that his professional hunter carried a double barrel 10 gauge shotgun to back up the author for an African leopard hunt. Is it common practice to use a shotgun of any kind as a backup weapon in Africa for leopards these days? I have often wondered if it was really a double barrel rifle rather than a shotgun and the author of that article just didn't know any better.

ryan80 said:

First off, thank you so much for writing these articles. I pulled up every one you have written so far and am going through all of them eagerly. They are extremely well written and I am enjoying them very much.

To the African hunters on this board, I have a question. I remember reading an article in a gun magazine some time ago where the author said that his professional hunter carried a double barrel 10 gauge shotgun to back up the author for an African leopard hunt. Is it common practice to use a shotgun of any kind as a backup weapon in Africa for leopards these days? I have often wondered if it was really a double barrel rifle rather than a shotgun and the author of that article just didn't know any better.

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@IvW uses a Brno side by side 12 calibre shot gun with 2.75 inch chambers , 24 inch barrels and no chokes. He uses it , loaded with Brenekke original slugs to back up clients for African leopards .

While l am not an African hunter , l ( like Kawshik ) also used to be a professional shikaree in Nagpur , India. I used to back up all my clients with a 12 calibre side by side double barreled shot gun made in Belgium with 3 inch chambers , extractors and 28 inch barrels . The left barrel was fully choked , while the right barrel was modified choke . I would load it with 3 inch Eley Gas Tight cartridges , hand loaded with 16 calibre spherical ball bullets . I have used that same gun since 1959 , and did not own any other firearms until the 1990s .
I still have it and use it for hunting and skeet shooting regularly . I have taken very good care of it and kept it in pristine condition . It is a very well made , solid , reliable weapon which never let me down .
Below , l have provided a photograph taken by myself.

I took everything with it from Indian grouse ( with no.6 cartridges ) to 2000 pound Indian Gaurs ( with double lung shots using spherical ball cartridges )

Thank you Major Khan. I have read every one of your articles as well over the past few days and you both are incredible story tellers and have obviously lead amazing lives.

I was asking about the shotgun for use in Africa because you both have said that your access to other choices of firearms was extremely limited due to the laws in India. I wondered if hunters in Africa, who theoretically have access to most any firearm, would pick the same for the same purpose. It seems that prolific hunters and guides in both places view a double barrel 12 gauge with appropriate shot to be useful for cats under 200 pounds, but far from ideal on other dangerous game. Is that assessment correct?

This shotgun of yours, Major Khan, is beautiful and you have certainly taken great care of it over the its long and useful life. It frankly makes me ashamed of not maintaining my personal equipment as well as I should in some cases.

ryan80 said:

Thank you Major Khan. I have read every one of your articles as well over the past few days and you both are incredible story tellers and have obviously lead amazing lives.

I was asking about the shotgun for use in Africa because you both have said that your access to other choices of firearms was extremely limited due to the laws in India. I wondered if hunters in Africa, who theoretically have access to most any firearm, would pick the same for the same purpose. It seems that prolific hunters and guides in both places view a double barrel 12 gauge with appropriate shot to be useful for cats under 200 pounds, but far from ideal on other dangerous game. Is that assessment correct?

This shotgun of yours, Major Khan, is beautiful and you have certainly taken great care of it over the its long and useful life. It frankly makes me ashamed of not maintaining my personal equipment as well as I should in some cases.

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I am touched by your kind words . Yes , l believe that if properly cared for , some things can last forever. I never let a scratch fall on this shot gun and l never tried using overtly high pressure cartridges in it . I rationalized that this gun was manufactured in an era when shot guns of this type were mostly designed to shoot Eley cartridges . So l always used Eley cartridges in this gun . Nowadays , l also use some Game Bore and Hull cartridges ( namely Hull triple A cartridges ) .
To answer your question , l would not recommend shot of any size on any of the big cats ( Lions , royal Bengal tigers , forest panthers, village panthers ) The shape and thickness of a panther's skull makes it very difficult for shot pellets to penetrate into the brain . Therefore , l would always recommend spherical ball cartridges or Brenekke slug cartridges .

Kawshik did kill 2 royal Bengal tigers and majority of his 32 forest panthers with SG 2.75 inch cartridges ( 12 pellets to the cartridge ). However , he almost always had to shoot them 3 to 5 times to accomplish the result he desired.
The 1 exception was this royal Bengal tiger - His final royal Bengal tiger

He fired into it's spinal column at point blank range with both barrels from a tree while the brute was right under him . The brute dropped to the shot(s) .
The discharge of both barrels together was purely accidental . Kawshik wanted to 1st fire 1 barrel and then the next . However , the cheap Indian Ordinance Factories shot gun had a faulty mechanism . When Kawshik pulled the left trigger , the right barrel went off simultaneously due to the jar caused by the left barrel . This accident was probably a blessing in disguise . Those 24 pellets of copper plated SG comple took the royal Bengal tiger's spine apart at point blank range.

As an interesting note , Kawshik's late girl friend , Antora Jahan killed a village panther with 2 SSG cartridges ( each 2.75 inch cartridge held 12 pellets ) from her father's Lyon & Lyon 12 calibre side by side shot gun . However , Antora was an extremely talented lady and the panther only weighed 30 kilograms.

Poton and Kawshik,
You two are walking encyclopedias of practical hunting knowledge. I never realized how ignorant I was until I started reading your articles--and I have hunted all my life. I have not encountered dangerous game except for my cape buff. I, and probably everyone who reads your articles, feel we have learned so much and are very appreciative. Keep writing on any hunting subject you care to. We eagerly await.