Big Bore cartridges built on the standard length Mauser 98 action

Hoss Delgado · Sep 4, 2019

HWL said:
The rim is not rebated, the case is a clean rimless design.

And the case capacity issues and the old bullets are all gone.

With todays bullets and powders, the 10,75x68 comes close to the the performance level of the old .404 Rimless load......

For example...

View attachment 303620

HWL

By the way , which firm made this rifle ?
In regards to the gun's stopping power , the old .404 Jeffery load itself isn't really powerful enough for dangerous game like Elephant or Buffalo , ( unless , l am very mistaken , in which case l hope you can correct me ) . With modern Woodleigh bullets , one no longer has to worry about bullets breaking apart

. But the case capacity issue is ( l believe ) inherent with the design itself , since these guns were built on standard actions which meant that the bullets had to be extremely deep seated into the cartridges and sacrificed a lot of powder space ( unless you dangerously raised pressures ) .
Sadly , even my dream caliber of 11.2 × 72 Schuler had case capacity issues.

grand veneur · Sep 4, 2019

I prefer not to say anything about the cartridge 10,75x68 , especially their suitability for hunting big game. @HWL knows my opinion on the subject.

HWL · Sep 4, 2019

Hoss Delgado said:
Thank you for correcting me The Ammunition box on the picture... Is it still being manufactured ?

No, they discontinued production in the 1990s...

I bought several boxes of this ammunition, but I use it for practicing only..... and for creating cases

All my hunting ammunition is handloaded with Woodleighs...

I personally do not have a reliable source for factory ammunition.

Hornady could become my friend, loading this cartridge.

Nontheless, I think this is the perfect fitting big game cartridge for a Mauser M98.

HWL

HWL · Sep 4, 2019

Hoss Delgado said:
By the way , which firm made this rifle ?

The gun was made by Martin Luyven, gunsmith in Bayreuth, a little town in northern Bavaria.

Amongst other things, he is specialized in making M98 sporting rifles.

He also made a 9,3x57 and a 9,3x62 for me.

HWL

HWL · Sep 5, 2019

Hoss Delgado said:
In regards to the gun's stopping power , the old .404 Jeffery load itself isn't really powerful enough for dangerous game like Elephant or Buffalo , ( unless , l am very mistaken , in which case l hope you can correct me ) . With modern Woodleigh bullets , one no longer has to worry about bullets breaking apart .

I not yet hunted with this rifle in Africa, so I do not have any first hand experience.

I do not consider the 10,75x68 a charge stopper.... but not every rifle used in Africa, has to be something like this.

I think, the 10,75x68 is a fine cartridge to hunt the "Everything", may be not to stop everything under any condition.

HWL

HWL · Sep 5, 2019

Hoss Delgado said:
. But the case capacity issue is ( l believe ) inherent with the design itself , since these guns were built on standard actions which meant that the bullets had to be extremely deep seated into the cartridges and sacrificed a lot of powder space ( unless you dangerously raised pressures ) .
Sadly , even my dream caliber of 11.2 × 72 Schuler had case capacity issues.

There is no casa capacity issue when you accept the performance level the 10,75 has to offer.

Independently of this, it is an easy job to open up the M98 action to accept .375 H&H length cartridges.

It will give the 10,75 the additional powder space,.... but I think, this was not the intention of their inventors.

....but it can be a nice playground for reloaders.

HWL

Hoss Delgado · Sep 5, 2019

HWL said:
There is no casa capacity issue when you accept the performance level the 10,75 has to offer.

Independently of this, it is an easy job to open up the M98 action to accept .375 H&H length cartridges.

It will give the 10,75 the additional powder space,.... but I think, this was not the intention of their inventors.

....but it can be a nice playground for reloaders.

HWL

Maybe a nice plains game rifle , then ?

HWL · Sep 5, 2019

Hoss Delgado said:
Maybe a nice plains game rifle , then ?

May be,... but it is not a real flat shooter.

I think it is good for the bushfelt in South Africa or something like this.

The bushfelt in mind, I ordered the rifle without scope mount bases, iron sights only.

But my gunsmith persuaded me to have bases, ..... now I am happy with a scope.

Zeroed 3" high at 100 yard, I think it is good for 200.

HWL

Cowboy1956 · Nov 18, 2022

Bos Javanicus said:
I have always had a bit of a thing about Big Bores (above .400) built on standard length 98 actions. Mainly because it can be done and it is also a damn site cheaper using an FN 98 action than it is finding, then buying a magnum length action.
I think the most popular Big Bore cartridge ever built on a standard length action was the .404 Jeffery followed very closely by the .416 Rigby, both of these being fantastic calibers. Other calibers on the 98 standard length action were the .500 Jeffery, .458 in Mag, .425 Westley Richards the 11.2x72 Schuler would of been a good candidate too. My favorite the .416 Taylor, which is a potent little round and one I might build for myself after I finish the other multitude of rifles in line before it.
What other plus .400 calibers were popular choices for the standard length Mauser 98 action that you know of? Also to try and kick a discussion along, what advantages were there in using these actions? I can think of a couple.

Heck harry Selby's 416 was built on a standard action most likely because of lack of magnum mauser a availability I've had the rifle in my hands was a work of art he said never a glitch in feeding or extraction

PeteG · Nov 19, 2022

Bos Javanicus said:
I have always had a bit of a thing about Big Bores (above .400) built on standard length 98 actions. Mainly because it can be done and it is also a damn site cheaper using an FN 98 action than it is finding, then buying a magnum length action.
I think the most popular Big Bore cartridge ever built on a standard length action was the .404 Jeffery followed very closely by the .416 Rigby, both of these being fantastic calibers. Other calibers on the 98 standard length action were the .500 Jeffery, .458 in Mag, .425 Westley Richards the 11.2x72 Schuler would of been a good candidate too. My favorite the .416 Taylor, which is a potent little round and one I might build for myself after I finish the other multitude of rifles in line before it.
What other plus .400 calibers were popular choices for the standard length Mauser 98 action that you know of? Also to try and kick a discussion along, what advantages were there in using these actions? I can think of a couple.

Not popular, but an interesting concept is the 458 African.

JvW · Nov 20, 2022

I'm late to this thread, but an interesting topic.

A cartridge like the .416 Rigby can be made to work in a standard-length action but it isn't ideal. The magazine has to be lengthened, a clearance notch milled out of the rear of the receiver ring to allow loaded rounds to be ejected, the bolt throw has to be lengthened, the bolt-stop protrusion on the ejector box has to go on a diet and, more crucially, metal has to be removed from behind the locking-lug recess. The fractionally shorter .404 works better in a standard-length M98.

Harry Selby's rifle was made on a standard-length ex-military M98 that was modified as set out above. Rigby also made use of commercial FN actions and, in a few instances, even welded two standard-length actions together to make a Frankenstein Magnum-length action. This was all due to the fact that Magnum Mauser actions were no longer available after World War II.

steve white · Nov 20, 2022

PeteG said:
Not popular, but an interesting concept is the 458 African.

what is the 458 African?

nztimb · Nov 20, 2022

JvW said:
I'm late to this thread, but an interesting topic.

A cartridge like the .416 Rigby can be made to work in a standard-length action but it isn't ideal. The magazine has to be lengthened, a clearance notch milled out of the rear of the receiver ring to allow loaded rounds to be ejected, the bolt throw has to be lengthened, the bolt-stop protrusion on the ejector box has to go on a diet and, more crucially, metal has to be removed from behind the locking-lug recess. The fractionally shorter .404 works better in a standard-length M98.

Harry Selby's rifle was made on a standard-length ex-military M98 that was modified as set out above. Rigby also made use of commercial FN actions and, in a few instances, even welded two standard-length actions together to make a Frankenstein Magnum-length action. This was all due to the fact that Magnum Mauser actions were no longer available after World War II.

The best thing about cutting two actions to make a magnum length action for the heavy rifle is that a nice kurz length action is also available for the camp meat rifle

geoff rath · Nov 20, 2022

steve white said:
what is the 458 African?

South African development, based on an improved 404 Jeffery case, Allegedly there are two versions; a short (2.5" case)and a longer,2.65" one. Very much like a 458 Howell, or an improved 460 G&A. Ballistics to exceed 458 Win Mag/Lott.
My stockmaker, a Rhodesian-born, South African raised fella (Bett Russouw, of BDR Stocks) has spoken at length with the designer, and Anthony Geoge, of N T Gunsmithing has reamer(s) and dies, I believe. A simple rechamber of a 458 Win Mag or Lott and minimal magazine work completes the job. Such a temptation ...

PeteG · Nov 22, 2022

geoff rath said:
South African development, based on an improved 404 Jeffery case, Allegedly there are two versions; a short (2.5" case)and a longer,2.65" one. Very much like a 458 Howell, or an improved 460 G&A. Ballistics to exceed 458 Win Mag/Lott.
My stockmaker, a Rhodesian-born, South African raised fella (Bett Russouw, of BDR Stocks) has spoken at length with the designer, and Anthony Geoge, of N T Gunsmithing has reamer(s) and dies, I believe. A simple rechamber of a 458 Win Mag or Lott and minimal magazine work completes the job. Such a temptation ...

@steve white essentially it was to overcome the limitations of reloading using the locally manufactured propellant in RSA.
It looks like a great cartridge and i was very tempted to have one built but the total reliance on reloaded ammo was a small issue i couldnt get around.

Big Bore cartridges built on the standard length Mauser 98 action

Hoss Delgado

grand veneur

HWL

HWL

HWL

HWL

Hoss Delgado

HWL

Cowboy1956

PeteG

JvW

steve white

nztimb

geoff rath

PeteG

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