Rifle barrels that will withstand a barrel burner caliber - 6.5X68S

Shootist43 · Apr 12, 2019

Gert all I was trying to say was that barrel composition i.e. steel type might be more important than the type of rifling. For whatever it is worth, I just did a little research M-16 barrels are made out of 4150 steel not the 4140 typically used for civilian barrels.

Gert Odendaal · Apr 12, 2019

mark-hunter said:
Gert, just out of curiosity, what would be intended use of this caliber?

Mark, in the first place:
Just to have the 6.5x68 with my 8x68S I am building , a brilliant pair ...

To hunt open veld like the karoo /Kalahari..
Shooting long distances for fun...

Gert Odendaal · Apr 12, 2019

Shootist43 said:
Gert all I was trying to say was that barrel composition i.e. steel type might be more important than the type of rifling. For whatever it is worth, I just did a little research M-16 barrels are made out of 4150 steel not the 4140 typically used for civilian barrels.

Shootist 43 ,I agree , even when you take in account , according to those who know, if your really go out of your way to shoot this barrel burner rifle to it`s max you can get about five hundred rounds through the barrel....for me who really shoot for the fun at club activities/hunt once/twice a year I will never get to the five hundred mark at all...

I think it still is a purposeful activity to discuss the 6.5x68 caliber as a barrel burner , it gives me more insight and knowledge about this scarce caliber ...I already learned much more about how best to shoot a barrel burner and about different barrel steels in this discussion..

375 Ruger Fan · Apr 12, 2019

Realguns.com has developed a barrel burner index. Realguns.com went from being a free website to a $39/yr subscription. If you want, give me some numbers and I'll run the calc for you.

https://www.realguns.com/calculators/rg-barrel-burner-index/

Gert Odendaal · Apr 12, 2019

375 Ruger fan, thank you I will contact Georg in Germany and get the data..will come back to you..I looked on the SONCHEM page, the South African smokeless powder company, they do not list the 6.5x68 caliber , only the 8x68S caliber and the suggested powders to use when reloading..

Gert Odendaal · Apr 12, 2019

Will this be helpful:https://www.chuckhawks.com/6-5x68S.htm

https://revivaler.com/the-6-5x68-schuler/

Hogpatrol · Apr 12, 2019

Gert Odendaal said:
Will this be helpful:https://www.chuckhawks.com/6-5x68S.htm

https://revivaler.com/the-6-5x68-schuler/

Gert, that first link showed a max load for 140s in the 6.5x68 at 2993 fps. In my 26 Noslers, I had the 140 Bergers doing 3430, the 130 Berger 3502, 20 plus more grains of powder. I wouldn't characterize the 6.5x68 a barrel burner.

dchamp · Apr 12, 2019

I wouldn't worry about the 6.5x68s being a barrel burner. After satisfying yourself with the accuracy and precision of your rifle and ammunition there really is no need for further grouping a least in my opinion. I have a 6.5-300Wby, the only time I bothered grouping it was in the beginning. Now all I do for practice with it, is to cold bore shoot only, at varying distances to validate my data. I figure there is no point in chasing groups with all that very expensive ammunition, along with the wear and tear on the rifle. But that's just me.

I considered getting a 6.5x68s to go along with my 8x68s but since I have a 6.5-300Wby I figured why bother, but it does sound good as a pair.

I played with QuickLoad a little bit. If you are restricted to Somchem powders then I would suggest trying S385 for your 6.5x68s and S365 for the 8x68s. The S385 should also work reasonably well with the heavier bullets, 220gr and 250gr. If you are not restricted to Somchem then RL 16 & Vhitavuori 550 work very well with 180gr bullets in the 8x68s, at least thats been my experience.

Gert Odendaal · Apr 13, 2019

Hogpatrol said:
Gert, that first link showed a max load for 140s in the 6.5x68 at 2993 fps. In my 26 Noslers, I had the 140 Bergers doing 3430, the 130 Berger 3502, 20 plus more grains of powder. I wouldn't characterize the 6.5x68 a barrel burner.

Hogpatrol, I concur, what is strange is that in all the literature I went through on the forums , mainly the European forums /German forums no one coined the 6.5x68 a barrel burner, my friend Hansie Minnaar who make Stewart`s core bonded bullet gave an estimate of a thousand rounds at least through the barrel before it will be rendered as shot out..a thousand rounds in a barrel of a rifle I shoot is really a lot of reloading to do...

How long do your .26Nosler barrels endure??
Another friend Tervin who shoots competitive at Bisley competitions mentioned that the biggest problem he perceive is the possibility of shooting the ghongs to pieces...

Gert Odendaal · Apr 13, 2019

dchamp said:
I wouldn't worry about the 6.5x68s being a barrel burner. After satisfying yourself with the accuracy and precision of your rifle and ammunition there really is no need for further grouping a least in my opinion. I have a 6.5-300Wby, the only time I bothered grouping it was in the beginning. Now all I do for practice with it, is to cold bore shoot only, at varying distances to validate my data. I figure there is no point in chasing groups with all that very expensive ammunition, along with the wear and tear on the rifle. But that's just me.

I considered getting a 6.5x68s to go along with my 8x68s but since I have a 6.5-300Wby I figured why bother, but it does sound good as a pair.

I played with QuickLoad a little bit. If you are restricted to Somchem powders then I would suggest trying S385 for your 6.5x68s and S365 for the 8x68s. The S385 should also work reasonably well with the heavier bullets, 220gr and 250gr. If you are not restricted to Somchem then RL 16 & Vhitavuori 550 work very well with 180gr bullets in the 8x68s, at least thats been my experience.

dcchamp,hogpatrol thank you for this input, I really appreciate your point of view, yes , I do have access to SONCHEM powders, it seems gun shops in SA are retailing in Vhitavuori , RL and other powders from abroad as well...but due to the practical advantage I will make use of our powders ...there are a few members/hunters here on the forum and at shooting clubs that own and shoot the 8x68S..so re-loading data for the 8x68 is common....it will be the 6.5x68 re-loads that I would like to acquire ..but there is still ample time..this is still a future concept I am contemplating.. :A Banana:

mark-hunter · Apr 13, 2019

Gert Odendaal said:
Mark, in the first place:
Just to have the 6.5x68 with my 8x68S I am building , a brilliant pair ...
To hunt open veld like the karoo /Kalahari..
Shooting long distances for fun...

Ok, got the point!

To keep in collection, any good rifle barrel will be OK (from reputable barrel maker).
Especially if this will not be every day carry rifle. (which will not be)

With reasonable use in the field, it can even last a life time. But "daily plinking" will not survive for too long.

In my educated guess, I would arguably estimate following;
- For 8x68, life expectancy of barrel cca 2500 shots fired, to keep accuracy.
- For 6.5x68, life expectancy cca 500-700 or bit more shots fired, to keep accuracy.

With the best "modern-magic" barrels that we speak about, new materials, alternative rifling, etc to double the longevity of bbl, can not be expected. (Dont expect too much)

You may also consider to start the 6.5 life with longer barrel, and after starting loosing accuracy, shorten the front end of barrel, which will give some additional shots.

On your previous comment, I will keep in mind, and as soon as getting the chance I will measure and compare velocities, and let you know.

Gert Odendaal · Apr 13, 2019

mark-hunter said:
Ok, got the point!

To keep in collection, any good rifle barrel will be OK (from reputable barrel maker).
Especially if this will not be every day carry rifle. (which will not be)

With reasonable use in the field, it can even last a life time. But "daily plinking" will not survive for too long.

In my educated guess, I would arguably estimate following;
- For 8x68, life expectancy of barrel cca 2500 shots fired, to keep accuracy.
- For 6.5x68, life expectancy cca 500-700 or bit more shots fired, to keep accuracy.

With the best "modern-magic" barrels that we speak about, new materials, alternative rifling, etc to double the longevity of bbl, can not be expected. (Dont expect too much)

You may also consider to start the 6.5 life with longer barrel, and after starting loosing accuracy, shorten the front end of barrel, which will give some additional shots.

On your previous comment, I will keep in mind, and as soon as getting the chance I will measure and compare velocities, and let you know.

Great, Mark, it really is nice to have this discussion with your members, it gives me a lot of insight ..keep in mind I have a few other rifles I need to shoot to uphold my competency statuses here in SA.. so the 6.5x68 will not be the first to go to rifle..the 404 Jeffery has that privileged, as well as the .458 Mannlicher Schoenauer then the 8x57JS is another candidate ..I love to shoot these rifles...my .375 H&H Magnum is standing at the end of this line....only so much time to shoot my rifles.. :A Banana:

Please if you have time , would you get me the info in regards to where the 6.5x68 caliber stands as a barrel burner?????? :A Big Hello:

mark-hunter · Apr 13, 2019

Gert Odendaal said:
Please if you have time , would you get me the info in regards to where the 6.5x68 caliber stands as a barrel burner??????

I am not sure what did you have in mind? All said before, is quite self-explanatory?!

375 Ruger Fan · Apr 13, 2019

I found case capacity and max pressure listed on Wikipedia and then rand the Realguns Barrel Burner Index calc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5×68mm

Hogpatrol · Apr 13, 2019

Gert, On the 26 Noslers, one had .75mm growth in the throat after 300 rounds. I used it once in RSA, pulled the barrel and made it one of the 28s. I sold the other with less than 100 rounds. It actually had less throat erosion than the one that was melonited.

Gert Odendaal · Apr 13, 2019

Mark , my apologies, it was Ruger 375 that will work out the data regarding the barrel burner as constitute by a specific program :A Bang Head:

Gert Odendaal · Apr 13, 2019

mark-hunter said:
I am not sure what did you have in mind? All said before, is quite self-explanatory?!

Mark , my apologies, it was Ruger 375 that will work out the data regarding the barrel burner as constitute by a specific program :A Bang Head:

Bullthrower338 · Apr 13, 2019

I have always been of the belief that speed costs, fast cars, fast women and fast guns all will cost you more to play with than the more sensible models of each. One of my favorite cartridges ever is the 220 Swift and what a reputation it received as a “barrel burner”. I get exceptionally good life out of my Swift barrels simply by staying away from the upper thresholds of the cartridge potential. This is a cartridge I primarily use for prairie dogs and an occasional coyote, I’ve found no need for max velocity to kill either any deader. With all of the technology available in dial up scopes, ballistic calculators and satellite guided Barnes bullets there is less need for laser like trajectory than there used to be when we used to have to shoot using honest gathered data through thousands of rounds sent down range.
From my understanding in RSA a barrel swap isn’t as simple as we have it in the US. I’ve been told that one must permit the change and the barrel is treated much like a receiver is here(the serialized part that is recorded). So I think I understand the reason barrel life is of your concern if my information is correct. I’m sure that, along with quantity restrictions would definitely make cartridge/barrel selection a much tougher decision than we go through here.
These are my go to barrels when I need one.

http://riflebarrels.com/

Cheers,
Cody

Gert Odendaal · Apr 13, 2019

Bullthrower338 said:
I have always been of the belief that speed costs, fast cars, fast women and fast guns all will cost you more to play with than the more sensible models of each. One of my favorite cartridges ever is the 220 Swift and what a reputation it received as a “barrel burner”. I get exceptionally good life out of my Swift barrels simply by staying away from the upper thresholds of the cartridge potential. This is a cartridge I primarily use for prairie dogs and an occasional coyote, I’ve found no need for max velocity to kill either any deader. With all of the technology available in dial up scopes, ballistic calculators and satellite guided Barnes bullets there is less need for laser like trajectory than there used to be when we used to have to shoot using honest gathered data through thousands of rounds sent down range.
From my understanding in RSA a barrel swap isn’t as simple as we have it in the US. I’ve been told that one must permit the change and the barrel is treated much like a receiver is here(the serialized part that is recorded). So I think I understand the reason barrel life is of your concern if my information is correct. I’m sure that, along with quantity restrictions would definitely make cartridge/barrel selection a much tougher decision than we go through here.
These are my go to barrels when I need one.

http://riflebarrels.com/

Cheers,
Cody

Cody, thank you very much for your input it is much appreciated...yes, it is true, there is no need to send thousands of rounds down range , at high velocities to get trigger time and small groupings...my main aim is to enjoy this fast , flat shooting caliber, keep in mind I already will have it`s older brother the 8x68S that also has a reputation of flat , fast , accurate with the hitting power of a lightning bolt.. :A Banana:

I therefore will already have a lot of velocity that I can re-load to hot loads ..

Yes, changing a barrel here in South Africa really is a difficult process...it really consist of a lot of documentation to complete and a long waiting period then there is always the possibility that the application can be refuse...so it is correct , it is a huge aspect to consider when making decisions in regards to caliber choice.. :A Bang Head:

My rationale to buy/build this caliber is to enjoy shooting at something from a great distance...to enjoy hitting a target from afar...

Thank you for the link to the barrel company..how do the Lija barrel compare to a PAC-NOR barrel???

Bullthrower338 · Apr 13, 2019

Gert Odendaal said:
Cody, thank you very much for your input it is much appreciated...yes, it is true, there is no need to send thousands of rounds down range , at high velocities to get trigger time and small groupings...my main aim is to enjoy this fast , flat shooting caliber, keep in mind I already will have it`s older brother the 8x68S that also has a reputation of flat , fast , accurate with the hitting power of a lightning bolt..I therefore will already have a lot of velocity that I can re-load to hot loads ..

Yes, changing a barrel here in South Africa really is a difficult process...it really consist of a lot of documentation to complete and a long waiting period then there is always the possibility that the application can be refuse...so it is correct , it is a huge aspect to consider when making decisions in regards to caliber choice..

My rationale to buy/build this caliber is to enjoy shooting at something from a great distance...to enjoy hitting a target from afar...

Thank you for the link to the barrel company..how do the Lija barrel compare to a PAC-NOR barrel???

Gert,
I’ve used many barrels including Douglas, Hart, shilen and even a Shaw. I’m currently about to build a 470 Capstick with a PacNor barrel and it will be my first use of one. The 470 will not give me the same level of precision that I would be able to compare to the others in the 22’s and 6.5 cals. All of the Lilja barrels that I have used have been outstanding. I may be a little biased because they are made a short distance from where I was raised but I have never had a flaw in over 40 barrels. Dan’s record in precision shooting speaks for itself, he knows what it takes to build a winning rifle. Now this is not a recommendation against any of the other fine manufacturers previously mentioned. Most of them have all had competitions won with their barrels and are well established and respected companies.
Good luck and look forward to following your progress!
Cheers,
Cody

Rifle barrels that will withstand a barrel burner caliber - 6.5X68S

Shootist43

Gert Odendaal

Gert Odendaal

375 Ruger Fan

Gert Odendaal

Gert Odendaal

Hogpatrol

dchamp

Gert Odendaal

Gert Odendaal

mark-hunter

Gert Odendaal

mark-hunter

375 Ruger Fan

Hogpatrol

Gert Odendaal

Gert Odendaal

Bullthrower338

Gert Odendaal

Bullthrower338

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