.416 Rigby

Well it turns out firearms licensing didn't want to play ball with my Lott application. I'm a little saddened by the decision but I do wonder if they've saved me from myself a little at the same time?

After talking to a lot of members here and a few folk elsewhere it was made pretty clear to me that although the Lott is a great buff round, it is a pretty shocking choice for plains game. It's also been hinted that if I were to apply for a .416 Rigby my chances of approval will be considerably better. I'm not sure why but it is what it is, so I'm going for that.

So to the users of the .416 Rigby, what bullets should I be considering for plains use? And is there any reduced load data available for deer sized game? Does anyone here cast bullets for it?

Ah, come on, of course you know! John Rigby was English. Jack Lott was American.

So, my crystal ball says that the vast majority will tell you to get a .375 H&H. A few nostalgic souls will argue for the lovely .404. Lovers of Rem 700 and Win 70 will advise you to go .416 Rem, and anyone with any real sense will agree with Rigby

I, of course, advise the Rigby option, in tuned up CZ 550 form with an after market firing pin blocking "3 position" safety, and in terms of bullets & components I initially used Hornady factory DGS / DGX as practice loads and brass donors until I came to my senses and realized that factory Barnes Vor-TX ammo do not cost more...



Yeah, I know, some folks will advise you to spend almost twice as much for Norma, Swift, Federal etc. but the .416 TSX has a pretty dang good rep in Africa.

The nice things about a .416 Rigby 400 gr TSX @ 2,400 fps are:
- you can shoot it at whatever you want, from Duiker to buff;
- it flies dang near as flat as a .375 H&H 300 gr out to 250 yd (+1.5" @ 50; +3.0" @ 100; +2.8" @ 150; +0.7 @ 200; -3.6" @ 250);
- it hits DG considerably harder than the .375 H&H;
- forget about soft & solid combo, the TSX does it all;
- it runs at low pressure;
- recoils is quite reasonable by DG rifles standards;
- in CZ 550 + Bell & Carlson kevlar stock /aluminum block & pillars, it is about indestructible, and scope bases, rear sight and front sights will not fall off the gun;
- it is accurate as heck in my CZ 550;
- it is lead free (although it has not yet popped on the enviro radar screen in Africa - that I know of).

And if you want more speed you can use the Barnes 350 gr TSX, or the 350 gr TTSX (my vote), and to play around on Roebuck, Barnes even makes a 300 gr TSX for which they provide loading data on their website.

What's not to love

BRICKBURN said:

First step: I just called Barnes and chatted with Ty. He confirmed what I think will be the most accurate load, given my powder stores.

350 Grain TTSX in the 416 Rigby.
IMR 4831 90.5 grains to MAX 98.5 grains

Next.

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Have a read:

https://www.africahunting.com/threads/making-my-way-to-barnes.36029/page-8

I own both calibers and IMHO for PG they have done you a favor.
I use a 300g Peregrine often for PG hunting , the ,416 caliber is far more versatile than a 458 Lott .

Sorry that Firearms Licensing did not approve of having a 458 Lott in UK. Quite a few gangs running around with 458's robbing and pillaging I guess. In the interest of public safety, best to step down to the 416.............I own a Rigby now, and have owned several 458's over the years....they are not the light, nimble fun rifles to hunt PG with even though I had no trouble with 200M trajectories.............best of luck................FWB

Thanks chaps. I don't really understand the way firearms work in the UK other than having to justify need. If they don't think you need it, or could be doing the job with something smaller, that's often what they want us to do. Not being great for plains game means it's equally not great for our game here, so I can see their point to a degree.

One of my main reasons for going for the Lott is that I already have lots of .458 casting kit, I could have shot it fairly cheaply at the range without needing fancy bullets. The Rigby will be a little harder to feed that way, it'll cost me more.

The rifle I have my eye on is a factory kevlar stocked CZ550. I'm not sure if Bell and Carlson made that stock? Probably not, but it should be similar enough?

I'll ask my local dealer about the factory Barnes loads. It may well be that I end up home loading, it will be much cheaper. I think it costs about £8 per round loaded, I can home load it for half that. I just need to find some brass!

Home loading is the way to go.
Won't let you have a 458 but 416 is ok. The logic escapes me.

BRICKBURN said:

Home loading is the way to go.
Won't let you have a 458 but 416 is ok. The logic escapes me.

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Brickburn you know the .416 would barely pierce wet cardboard but the .458 is more akin to mortar fire!

I know it’s not perfect, but I’m so glad to live in a place where I can buy as many guns as I want in as many calibers as I want. Pending spousal approval of course!

JakeH said:

Brickburn you know the .416 would barely pierce wet cardboard but the .458 is more akin to mortar fire!
............ !

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I won't show them the metal thickness my bullets penetrate then. Leave them thinking it is a nice pest caliber and you are just shooting foxes in hedge rows. All good.

njc110381 said:

Thanks chaps. I don't really understand the way firearms work in the UK other than having to justify need. If they don't think you need it, or could be doing the job with something smaller, that's often what they want us to do. Not being great for plains game means it's equally not great for our game here, so I can see their point to a degree.

One of my main reasons for going for the Lott is that I already have lots of .458 casting kit, I could have shot it fairly cheaply at the range without needing fancy bullets. The Rigby will be a little harder to feed that way, it'll cost me more.

The rifle I have my eye on is a factory kevlar stocked CZ550. I'm not sure if Bell and Carlson made that stock? Probably not, but it should be similar enough?

I'll ask my local dealer about the factory Barnes loads. It may well be that I end up home loading, it will be much cheaper. I think it costs about £8 per round loaded, I can home load it for half that. I just need to find some brass!

Click to expand...

Actually B&C DOES make the CZ 550 factory kevlar/aramid stock

So the stock is a B&C. Ok, that's good!

Regarding what I'm allowed, I'm a little baffled too to be honest. But it is what it is. Sometimes it's easier to not argue, sometimes it's better to make a fuss. Depends how badly I need what they're saying no to. As most people here seemed to think I'd be better off with a H&H or Rigby when I talked about getting the Lott I figured it wasn't worth making a fuss. I bought brass and dies in preparation to get the rifle but hey ho, I can make dummy loads with those bits and sell them to collectors for a profit!

With regards to the Rigby, has anyone used the 300gr TSX in it? I can't find any load data for it!

I would in general be careful using copper bullets when shooting close range at animals the size of a duiker due to the ricochet risk. I would like to point out that I'm only using small and medium bore cartridges anf therefore do not have experience of .416 bullets.

BRICKBURN said:

Home loading is the way to go.
Won't let you have a 458 but 416 is ok. The logic escapes me.

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njc, for what it is worth I just ran a QuickLoad analysis of a 416 Rigby (24" barrel) using a 300 Gr. Barnes TSX bullets and 98.5 Gr. (max load) of H4350 for a predicted velocity of 2667 FPS. If you have another powder that you'd like me to "run" I'd be happy to do that for you. I have no experience with loads or bullets under 400 Grs. in this caliber.

Shootist43 said:

njc, for what it is worth I just ran a QuickLoad analysis of a 416 Rigby (24" barrel) using a 300 Gr. Barnes TSX bullets and 98.5 Gr. (max load) of H4350 for a predicted velocity of 2667 FPS. If you have another powder that you'd like me to "run" I'd be happy to do that for you. I have no experience with loads or bullets under 400 Grs. in this caliber.

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Thanks, that's very kind of you. PM on it's way.

I have heard about the monolithic bullets bouncing a bit more than jacketed bullets. Finding something to get the weight down is my issue. I also have some 410gr Woodleigh in both solid and expanding forms on their way for me to try.

If loading your own for the Rigby avoid H4831 if you can. In the 416 Rigby it has a sharp vicious recoil. Use AR2209/H4350 instead. Uses less powder for same velocity and is easier on the shoulder.

Try the Woodleigh 400grain Hydrostatic instead of their solid. The Hyro is less like to change course inside the animal. Also in My CZ550 Rigby I use the same load for my 410 Woodleigh SN and both have the same point of impact. The Woodliegh solids are about 30 mm different at 100mts. Just some food for thought.

Rule 303 said:

If loading your own for the Rigby avoid H4831 if you can. In the 416 Rigby it has a sharp vicious recoil. Use AR2209/H4350 instead. Uses less powder for same velocity and is easier on the shoulder.

Try the Woodleigh 400grain Hydrostatic instead of their solid. The Hyro is less like to change course inside the animal. Also in My CZ550 Rigby I use the same load for my 410 Woodleigh SN and both have the same point of impact. The Woodliegh solids are about 30 mm different at 100mts. Just some food for thought.

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Unfortunately I have to avoid most Hodgdon powders. New REACH regulations (don't ask me what it means!) have banned the import of a lot of powders to the UK. I will most likely be loading Vihtavouri N165 or Alliant Reloder 22.

I have some Woodleigh softs and standard solids on the way. The Hydro's do look very interesting though and I will be trying them when I can source some, as well as Barnes TSX, most likely in 300gr if I can get UK use added to my conditions.

Don't forget to check RE17 and 19

Rule 303 said:

Don't forget to check RE17 and 19

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Will do, thanks. I have 22 here but can get the others too. I use 15 in my light 6.5x55 loads and 10x in my 500gr .45-70 loads. It's not the cleanest of powders but it performs pretty well in my experience with the smaller rounds.

One Day... said:

So, my crystal ball says that the vast majority will tell you to get a .375 H&H. A few nostalgic souls will argue for the lovely .404. Lovers of Rem 700 and Win 70 will advise you to go .416 Rem, and anyone with any real sense will agree with Rigby

Click to expand...

I won't try and talk you into a .375 H&H, but that is what I ended up getting......for practical purposes. I had found a great deal on a CZ550 in .416 Rigby; did my research as far as reloading.....most of the powders listed I already used. Then I went to a local gun shop that supposedly caters to those who hunt Africa.......they had one box of .416 Rigby cartridges (20 rds) at $200/box! They also had 4-5 different boxes of .375 H&H cartridges, the cheapest being $3/rd. For me, it came down to a simple matter of pragmatics.......I only intend to hunt one species of DG (cape buffalo), and that would be a once in a life time deal. If I were to planning on hunting more species, or spending more time in Africa, I most likely would have said "Damn the torpedoes......." , bit the bullet (no pun intended), and bought the CZ. I bought a Winchester M70 in .375 H&H and I haven't regretted it; brass/bullets are readily available, as were dies. I am one who believes in practicing a whole lot, esp. where hunting game is concerned, so my hunting rifles see a lot of time out on the range over the summer. I think you will do fine with the Rigby; I have reloading data for it, but unfortunately it is with U.S. powders. You might want to consider going over to the castboolets website, as there are a ton of seasoned veteran casters over there........I am pretty confident that they will have answers to your casting/cast bullet loads for the Rigby.