Have you seen such gun?

Vashper said:

View attachment 265280 View attachment 265284

It's from pheasant hunting of Moscow Safari Club

Click to expand...

Beautiful rifle. Great work.

These guys obviously hunt in style

Vashper said:

Not so simple. It's designe of Gustav Fükert, (1811-1900)? Austrian (or Chech) gunsmit. He used Swedih and Britain patents. But this gun is new.

Click to expand...

You are right! It has a safety which a period hammer gun would not have had. Must be nice to be an oligarch - though I hope the big fellow isn't mistaken for a brown bear.

leslie hetrick said:

,,, just driving the hogs.

Click to expand...

Very funny expression. I made a thread in the "Jokes..."/ I know only one meaning of "driving" - "driving a car". My English is poor.
Well, city hunter and rural hunter - this is an eternal theme, like theme of love in world literature. But when city hunters go to their ofices, country guys remain in fields and forests.

we drive for deer and bear here, but the big difference between there and here is the drivers and the standers carry firearms and also shoot at the driven animals.

Vashper said:

.............
I constantly participate in these hunts as a huntsman with a dog, our Spaniel club gets a bonus - free hunt for the remaining pheasants for the next day. I...........

Click to expand...

Things are not too different after all.
I use my Springer Spaniels for this type of hunt for others as well.

I mistook beaters(no firearms) for drivers (carry firearms and also shoot at the animals), here we don,t have beaters.

I can't extract video from youtube this is my Russian Spaniel in 2012 in such hunt^

Eric Anderson said:

In Europe it is an upper class thing, ....

Click to expand...

Not whole Europe. It is more wide spread in the north.

Leslie, "it depends". I heard that in the United States in General battue is not very common. Is it? In Europe, this is a common type of hunting for ungulates and some other species. And the Russian tzarss hunted that way. And if the relationship between the hunter and the beater - the relationship of the buyer and the seller, the beater does not shoot. If hunting club or section hunts, it is often part of the hunters acts as a beater, then take the weapon with them. Sometimes the gamekeepers is taken guns to help in the implementation of the license.

On the last hunt before the New Year I went to the battue with a rifle and cursed all the fallen trees in two rows and half a meter of snow, I barely got out of the forest. There go something with a rifle was very hard, not the that to shoot.

We must remember that we have the density of game and species diversity is much lower. Our climate is not conducive to the survival of white-tailed deer and their European analogues. Even the wild boar does not survive the winter without feeding. The West, the more game - in Belarus, Poland. The border of sustainable winter snow cover runs approximately in the middle of Poland - and the density of deer and wild boar roughly corresponds to geography.

PS in the Summer I wear the same camouflage.

I had the pleasure of living and hunting in Germany for five years and have hunted there, Austria, and Spain a bit since. Our hunting traditions come from two very different traditions. European traditions trace their roots to the notions of high game restricted to the nobility; of all game belonging to the land owner; and of a tenant farming and labor class available to serve the local Lord as beaters for the early elaborate driven hunts, and the smaller, but still very regimented hunts one finds throughout Northern and Central Europe today. Obviously, the hunters are no longer strictly blooded aristocracy, but they do tend to represent the wealthier classes. No longer bound to the land per se, the beaters are modern, local working class folks who participate in the drive as beaters for a stipend and also for the fun of it. On one drive hunt in which I participated many years ago, the beaters were veterinary classmates of the Revier (Lease) owner's son. A unique, I am sure, event for a number of urban young people from the Munich area - particularly when a sounder of wild boar broke through the beater line!

The formative traditions in North America were quite different in spite of so many colonists arriving from Europe - or perhaps, in part, because of it. For the better part of two-hundred years, hunting had little to do with sport and everything to do with survival. Everyone on the advancing frontier participated - there were no fences and no game keepers. Game animals were part of the environment; not someone's property. All that began to change in the mid-19th century as the frontier gradually disappeared and fences began to go up. Hunting for the larder remained important but often not absolutely necessary; giving greater importance to the "sporting" aspects of the chase. Regrettably, it was during this period that market hunting blossomed, decimating or worse game stocks across the continent. Fortunately, with enlightened national political leadership by people such as Theodore Roosevelt and hundreds of concerned hunters on the local level, game laws were gradually put in place and most species began to recover.

Still, the notion of game belonging to people had been firmly planted in the North American soul. Huge tracts, largely game-managed by the individual states or provinces were set aside for public hunting access. In most areas, up until thirty or forty years ago, many private land owners readily granted access to hunters following a polite knock at the door. That is, unfortunately, changing at a blistering pace, particularly in the US. On the one side, urban liberals, who have never seen a national wildlife refuge or federally designated wilderness area, push to limit public access in general and hunting specifically in those areas. At the same time, private land owners have learned the value of the game on their property, particularly whitetail deer, and the lease system has spread all through their range. The same thing has occurred in coastal areas with respect to wildfowl.

However, the notion of hunting being the "right" of everyone is still quite strong. Which is a very long way around to explaining why we do not do driven hunts with beaters in this country. Pheasants are often "driven" in the Midwest. But there the dozen or so guns are divided between "blockers" and those pushing the field. All are armed and part of the hunt. Deer are still sometimes driven - particularly in the Northeast, but again these are small drives conducted by hunters - not beaters. In the South deer were driven by dogs. Finally, the class of country folks who would typically make up the beaters on a European drive hunt, are likely to be the most ardent hunters in a corresponding region of North America. I suspect that is changing at an ever accelerating pace as every bit of huntable ground is leased, but even in those cases, most of the lease holders are firmly working and middle class hunters.

One also sees that in the firearms that the typical North American hunter takes to the field. Quail hunting is one of the few areas where SxS's and OU's never gave way to pumps and semi-automatic shotguns. On a plantation in Georgia one could have seen fine, expensive "bird" guns at anytime over the last century. But until very recently, most hunters grew up a pump - mine was a Ted Williams built by Winchester and marketed by Sears. I have a little 20-bore model twelve that will still roll a dove cleaner than any fine English gun on the rack. That is another thing that is changing as opportunity has gradually lessened, and I suspect most North American hunters go afield with an OU of some form today (with the exception of waterfowl hunting).

Didn't mean for this to turn into a term paper, but our respective heritages often have European and North American hunters not fully understanding each other.

A little footnote to the dissertation.

Wildlife up here in Canada is still owned by the Crown:
"the property in all live wildlife is vested in the Crown."

This has actually reduced and restricted private ownership of wildlife. In many provinces it is illegal to hunt big game behind a fence. The South African model is completely "foreign" here. (no pun intended). Although Saskatchewan and Quebec do have some fenced big game businesses. Although birds (Pheasants, partridge) are released and shot widely.

A few years ago hunters were allowed, without specific permission, to enter "unoccupied private land" to hunt. It was specifically defined and you had to know where you were and who owned the land or you could be charged with trespassing.
The law was recently changed, without consultation, to now requiring specific permission to enter private land to hunt. There are some hotly contested issues/debates on the subject: Public vs private.

We can still knock on doors and readily get on private land to hunt public wildlife. Long live cooperation and respect.

None of that relates to Crown (public land) where you can hunt in an open hunting season.
Approximately 60 percent of Alberta is provincial public land, Private land covers 28.5 percent of Alberta and federal public land covers approximately 10 percent of the province.

We are pretty damned fortunate here.

About the class nature of the hunt. This is the most famous hunting picture. I even have it in two copies-on a tapestry and a cigarette case.

In Britain and on the continent (Europe), hunting has traditionally been a thing for the the upperclass...and to an extent still is.. In countries as Spain and Portugal there has in additon always been hunting for all classes...mainly for birds..

In Scandinavia , big game hunting has traditionally been as much for the common man as for the well off...and still is...but prices are rising, unfortunately..

That said, hunting in Norway, Sweden and Finland is pretty much accessable for all levels in society (I hate the word class..).

Pondoro said:

...

That said, hunting in Norway, Sweden and Finland is pretty much accessable for all levels in society (I hate the word class..).

Click to expand...

In Finland, there's a couple of different ways to get access to hunting. Firstly, you need to pass an exam, though: mainly hunting legislation and recognition of species. Then you pay a small annual fee that includes an insurance. Foreign visitors can have other arrangements but some proof of competence may be requested.

For land, the land owner has the hunting rights. Usually they rent out the rights to an association that, then, has the rights to a larger area. Generally, new members are welcome. The association can also take guests, or paying guests. Outside that, there's government land and you can buy a license to hunt there. In Lapland, local residents have wider rights for hunting on government land.

Hunting for Moose, smaller deer, and major predators is under Government regulation. Usually, hunting associations apply for permits and get a certain quota that depends on how many animals there are in their area.

My nephews have pretty recently taken up hunting. One is an engineer and the other a plumber. I cannot call them upper class or wealthy. Just people with incomes that allow them to get the necessary equipment. Get their meat the harder and more expensive way....

I bought my senior life time license at 65 in 2008 for 102.00 USD, small game, turkey, deer(buck only-doe with extra license), bear with extra license, muzzle loader(buck or doe), fur taking-trapping and bow. to hunt water fowl you need a federal stamp, you can hunt all state game lands and private land with permission. and I can hunt any state in America, just by buying a non resident license and obaying their state hunting laws.

In General, we have a revolutionary law on hunting 1918, according to which the right to hunt is separated from the right to land. Hunting ticket is free, issued after passing the exam (easy) with shooting on the stand. You can hunt free lands for free. Practically valuable land leased to hunting societies, different (regional, private, or something else), where you have to buy a permit. For "strangers" it is more expensive. But with licenses for elk, wild boar, bear-it's not very simple they distribute the Ministry of natural resources among hunting regions (farms), and they already somehow sell them. The technique of it is not easy .
The most significant difference from Europe, even neighbors, such as Finland - low density of game and difficulty of hunting. Therefore, the rent of hunting grounds does not pay off, and if someone rents them after all - it is not a capitalist enterprise, but an expensive toy.
But returning to the topic: guns may be very different. IZH-27 with a cracked stock, wrapped with insulating tape (obligatory blue) - fine! Husqvarna 1911 - "normal'no!". Actually, the idea of a chic life is also different. For someone and Benelli-this is the highest chic.
and generally a different attitude to weapons. I once asked by the police officer on the re-registration (every five years) - why do you need so many guns? (10). Question was genuine. I found it difficult to answer. Really, I won't go hunting with ten guns?
And some photoes^

Pondoro, I don't like the word "classes" either, but Google translator does. And I've never hunted in Sweden, but the biggest impression of a short trip there is the abundance of game. The road to Skavsta airport is some trip to the zoo. There on each clearing at the road someone grazes-deer, wild boars, even some, seemingly, chamois on low rocks. Nowhere, even in Western Europe, have I seen anything like it.

Vashper said:

Pondoro, I don't like the word "classes" either, but Google translator does. And I've never hunted in Sweden, but the biggest impression of a short trip there is the abundance of game. The road to Skavsta airport is some trip to the zoo. There on each clearing at the road someone grazes-deer, wild boars, even some, seemingly, chamois on low rocks. Nowhere, even in Western Europe, have I seen anything like it.

Click to expand...

It is not uncommon where I live in NC to see herds of deer 30 strong in the middle of town.

Eric Anderson said:

It is not uncommon where I live in NC to see herds of deer 30 strong in the middle of town.

Click to expand...

Makes me feel incredibly blessed to live in a state with not only great access to hunting and fishing, but an abundance of game. Deer, duck, dove, turkey, bear, small game, and good bless the reserves that are bringing the bobwhite quail population back. Plenty of good hunting in the Old North State.