Why are Weatherby guns in 375+ calibers not liked on a Safari?

Rob404 said:

I own a Vanguard in 257 caliber and It's a Hoot to Shoot and has one of the best triggers I ever pulled

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I have one also, and mine is very accurate.

Yep, the .257 Wby is quite something. In truth, it is the one other Wby caliber (in addition to .300, .340 and .375) that I find really, really attractive...

So far I have not succumbed because every time I am about to hit "buy now" on GunBroker, I remind myself that, believe it or not (!?!?) the .300 Wby with 150 gr Partition actually shoots FLATTER than the .257 Wby with 120 gr Partition:
.300 Wby 150 gr Partition: +2.5" @ 100 yd; +3.2" @ 200 yd; 0 @ 300 yd; and -7.7" @ 400 yd
.257 Wby 120 gr Partition: +3" @ 100 yd; +3.7" @ 200 yd; 0 @ 300 yd; and -8.9" @ 400 yd

Also... I like the fact that the .300 Wby can become an entirely different gun with the 180 gr Partition, yet, again, believe it or not (!?!?) it has the same trajectory as the .257 Wby with 120 gr Partition:
.300 Wby 180 gr Partition: +3" @ 100 yd; +3.7" @ 200 yd; 0 @ 300 yd; and -8.6" @ 400 yd

And... the .300 Wby becomes darn near universal (for non dangerous game, or even... in a pinch...) with the .200 gr Partition, which stills flies amazingly flat, and -make no mistake about it - is a pretty big hammer when it lands:
.300 Wby 200 gr Partition: +3.5" @ 100 yd; +4.2" @ 200 yd; 0 @ 300 yd; and -9.8" @ 400 yd

Of course, "there ain't no free lunch" and there is a price to pay, which is obviously recoil, although at still quite reasonable levels: the 150 gr .300 Wby will push back 25 ft lbs; the 180 gr .300 Wby will push back 32 ft lbs; and the 200 gr .300 Wby will push back close to 40 ft lbs; BUT the amazing 120 gr .257 Wby will only push back 15 ft lbs !!!

And THAT my friends is why, one day, I will own one ;-)

Think of it as something as light to carry and as easy to shoot as a .22 (well, almost LOL), and still capable of killing (admittedly with carefully placed shots under ideal broadside conditions) about (almost) anything that walks this earth. Heck, if memory serves, Roy even killed a buff with it, although admitting that it was not ideal for the purpose. Really !? LOL

As for my .340 Weatherby I have found a match that was made in heaven for it. A Barnes 225 gr TTSX at 3000 fps. I found nothing else that shoots better in my rifle. By the way, my rifle hates 250 gr partitions.

As for recoil I can shoot it around 10 times at the range without the brake on it, but if I install the removable brake I can shoot it all day long. For hunting I remove the brake for everyone's sake, including mine because of the excessive noise with it on. But then I have never felt the recoil of any rifle when shooting at a animal.

JimP said:

As for my .340 Weatherby I have found a match that was made in heaven for it. A Barnes 225 gr TTSX at 3000 fps. I found nothing else that shoots better in my rifle. By the way, my rifle hates 250 gr partitions.

As for recoil I can shoot it around 10 times at the range without the brake on it, but if I install the removable brake I can shoot it all day long. For hunting I remove the brake for everyone's sake, including mine because of the excessive noise with it on. But then I have never felt the recoil of any rifle when shooting at a animal.

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I am on the other end of the spectrum, my particular .340 Wby (https://www.africahunting.com/media...stainless-new-haven-made-300-wby-rifle.61218/) loves the 250 gr Partition. Here is a no-BS 3 shot 100 yd group with uncompensated left hand steady 20 mph wind.
4" high at 100 yd gives me a 300 yd zero, and one can clearly see what a 20 mph left side wind does, even at 100 yd... (welcome to spring shooting in northern Arizona: ALWAYS windy!)

PS: THAT was the purpose of that particular group: verify the wind drift correction proposed by the shooting software. Turns out that the suggested correction at 100 yd (0.5" per 10 mph of wind) is about 1" short. Apparently the Partition does not have a real good ballistic coefficient LOL. Oh well at 100 yd, but beware at 400 yd...)



I have not tried the 225 gr TTSX. The Barnes I played with were the original Barnes X, 20 years or so ago, and I just could not keep them together. But then again, this was with my previous .340 Wby, the dearly departed Griffin & Howe mentioned a few posts above. Maybe it is time to try the TTSX in this pipe, but I have been in a "why mess with success" mode ;-)

I am curious @JimP, do you see a difference of point of impact when you remove the muzzle brake? Logic would have it that barrel vibration harmonics and combustion gases jet will be different, but I have always wondered how much impact it has at relatively shorter range (100 to 300 yd) on sporting rifle field accuracy, and I do not own a hunting gun with detachable muzzle brake to experiment with... My only experience in a previous life was with the French sniper FRF1 rifle, and messing with the flash hider / muzzle brake had a significant effect, like moving the point of impact by feet (not inches) at 800 meters.

I have not noticed any difference in POI with the brake on or off.

I will do most of my load development with the brake on just to save my shoulder off of the bench but I will do all my final shots with it off. When I went over to South Africa with it I didn't even take the brake with me since I know how bad the noise level can be plus I have no problems shooting at game animals without it.

On the Barnes bullets I started with Weatherby factory loads in 225 gr X bullets and 250 gr partitions. It surprised me at how well the X bullets printed at 200 yards so I just kept using them. Then when they came out with the TTSX I swapped over to them. I have a couple of targets that were shot at 250 yards that are similar to yours but they are packed away somewhere.

Norway_woods said:

Hello.

My friend did return from a SA Safari and told me that the PH in the camp told him that they did not like Weatherby guns for dangerous game.
They do not work good.
Really? Is that so?
I have two MkV in 300 and one in 340, they work great.
Has these something to do with the recoil level being high on the Weatherby calibers, compared to a say 375 H&H or 458 WM? Meaning the hunter is not able to handle the recoil?
Or, is it that the guns do not have controlled round feeing as a M98 and others?

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I have no opinion about Weatherby rifles. However, complaints by PH's seem to run to mechanical problems with factory loads. The Zimbabwe PH exam write-ups have twice pointed to these problems. I'll just repost here a site and quote (from Africanhuntingdotcom) from an administrator of the exam:

https://www.africahunting.com/threa...we-professional-hunter-proficiency-exam.2604/

"I'll start with my least favourite rifle:- the Weatherby. We don't often see them out here, thank goodness. The one we had this year exhibited the usual Weatherby failing of going off when the safety catch was disengaged. Like all I've seen with this problem, they work fine on the range. It is only after they have been bounced, bumped or jolted whilst loaded and on safe that they do this. I'm sure the problem is correctable and not all do it, however, this one would also not extract at all after the eighth round. It showed decidedly sticky extraction after the first three shots and finally died on number eight. It gives me great pleasure than to dig out my 2lb hammer and beat the bolt of a new rifle open whilst giving the owner a lecture on the benefits of reloading. Weatherby factory ammo always gives extraction problems and needs to be down loaded for use in hot conditions. The .460 is notorious and this .416 proved no different."

JimP said:

I have not noticed any difference in POI with the brake on or off.

I will do most of my load development with the brake on just to save my shoulder off of the bench but I will do all my final shots with it off. When I went over to South Africa with it I didn't even take the brake with me since I know how bad the noise level can be plus I have no problems shooting at game animals without it.

On the Barnes bullets I started with Weatherby factory loads in 225 gr X bullets and 250 gr partitions. It surprised me at how well the X bullets printed at 200 yards so I just kept using them. Then when they came out with the TTSX I swapped over to them. I have a couple of targets that were shot at 250 yards that are similar to yours but they are packed away somewhere.

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Thank you for the answer. Interesting...

Curious said:

I have no opinion about Weatherby rifles. However, complaints by PH's seem to run to mechanical problems with factory loads. The Zimbabwe PH exam write-ups have twice pointed to these problems. I'll just repost here a site and quote (from Africanhuntingdotcom) from an administrator of the exam:

https://www.africahunting.com/threa...we-professional-hunter-proficiency-exam.2604/

"I'll start with my least favourite rifle:- the Weatherby. We don't often see them out here, thank goodness. The one we had this year exhibited the usual Weatherby failing of going off when the safety catch was disengaged. Like all I've seen with this problem, they work fine on the range. It is only after they have been bounced, bumped or jolted whilst loaded and on safe that they do this. I'm sure the problem is correctable and not all do it, however, this one would also not extract at all after the eighth round. It showed decidedly sticky extraction after the first three shots and finally died on number eight. It gives me great pleasure than to dig out my 2lb hammer and beat the bolt of a new rifle open whilst giving the owner a lecture on the benefits of reloading. Weatherby factory ammo always gives extraction problems and needs to be down loaded for use in hot conditions. The .460 is notorious and this .416 proved no different."

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Yeah, this is a rather well-known and amply used quote... The challenge with it, is not to doubt the good faith of the reporter of said happenstance, but to know a little more about "the one" rifle (as in "The one we had this year" etc.). "The one" is not exactly an overwhelmingly convincing statistical population, and based on previous posts in this very thread, and elsewhere, Weatherby are not immune to home 'gunsmithing' and they too can occasionally have barely minimum spec. chambers, etc.

From a statistical perspective: yep, Wby factory ammo is hot loaded to the very bleeding edge (which makes it more susceptible to a whole lot of variables), and yep, there are fools showing up in camp with a brand new Wby canon they are afraid of; they can't shoot; and they did not debug (true too for Remington Ultra Mag, etc.), but there are also a whole lot of reliable folks who have been using these guns/ammo quite competently and entirely satisfactorily in Africa or anywhere else in the world way too often for way too many decades, to just take ANY story and make it a blanket statement.

For example, even the greatest living legends are not immune to personal bias and getting on the band wagon without second thoughts. A classic example is Craig Boddington confessing in his book Safari Rifles - to his high intellectual honesty credit - that he had repeated in print for decades the universal line that a push feed action would not feed upside down, until a friend of his confronted him to admit that he had never actually tried it, and got him to discover that, lo and behold, he had been propagating a myth, 'cause, guess what, good old Craig could not get a Rem 700 or Winch 70 push feed to fail feeding upside down when he actually tried it !!! Along these lines, the one thing that I find interesting in this Don Heath article on the lessons from the Zim pro exam, is the statement "...needs to be down loaded for use in hot conditions." This clearly sounds familiar in classic African hunting lore circa early 1920's cordite-loaded cartridges, but this has been proven an obsolete concern with modern propellants, as demonstrated by countless experiments conducted by industry, press writers, and individual shooters. If memory serves, from a Sierra reloading book somewhere on my shelf, the effect of higher temperature on modern powder is in the magnitude of 1 fps per degree Fahrenheit. So, cartridges shot in Africa at 110F would be 40 fps faster than when loaded in the US at 70F. I have chronographed more shot to shot variation than that in some lots of factory ammo! This is hardly enough to cause sticky extraction, unless you run into a really tight chamber at the minimum end of the tolerances, which does occasionally happen (i.e. "the one"), AND you start with super-duper hot loads, which some lots of Wby .460 or .416 may be. The question then becomes how many guns are affected? (which understandably is no consolation to the sad owner of "the one")...

For what it is worth, my personal experience with Wby factory ammo - which darn few are able to improve on when reloading, i.e. they ARE factory loaded to the bleeding edge - is that I have had a grand total of ONE sticky extraction / blown primer / minor brass flow into the ejector hole, among maybe 300 to 400 factory .340 Wby rounds and about as many .300 Wby I fired. This was not in the Arizona summer, when it is - believe you me! - as hot as on any hot day in most of Africa (it is routinely over 110F in Phoenix for months at a time!), when ammo in the sun is too hot to touch, and when I never had a sticky extraction among at least 200 (10 boxes) of .340 Wby fired, but it was at about 60F last spring, and I mentally kicked myself in the you-know-what afterward because I remembered AFTER the shot: "oh, yeah, I had to kinda push real hard to get that round to chamber" duuhhh!!! I don't know what was wrong with that one cartridge (bullet improperly seated and jamming the lands?), but I should have picked up on it before pulling the trigger, when the bolt was hard to close. Another lesson...

Conversely, my only genuine repeatable "rubber mallet" experience was in 2016 with an Accuracy International / Remington Defense .300 Win Mk13 mod 5 sniper rifle in which Black Hills 190 gr BTHP clocked at 2,926 fps and produced sticky extraction; Federal Gold Medal 190 gr SMK BTHP clocked at 2,981 fps and produced difficult extraction; and Hornady 195 gr BTHP clocked at 3,076 fps and were impossible to extract without a rubber mallet. I could never really pinpoint what caused it, but it was solved when Gary Reeder, of Pistol Parlor national fame, delicately pushed his own finishing reamer in it and ever soooo slightly touched up the chamber.

So, I dunno, maybe there are more tight Weatherby chambers out there than from other gun makers? but it would be interesting to hear from the PHs in the field, all bantering aside, how many of them carry rubber mallets when clients show up with a Weatherby LOL, or, more seriously: how many time they have PERSONALLY witnessed a Weatherby failure to extract, or failure to fire after removing the safety (excluding cases of clients fumbling proper gun handling, of course).

And of course, there is always - and maybe foremost - the lurking possibility of a dirty chamber after a few days of Safari (baked-in powder residues mixed up with sandy dust captured in a light oil film during the summer maybe? or possibly (God forbid! LOL) some light surface corrosion during the rainy season? Does not take much...
Raise your hand if you carry a bore snake (or equivalent) in your 'possible bag' LOL, or go buy one and make it an indelible habit to run it 5 times through the pipe every night when coming back to camp, whether you have shot that day or not...

larry4831 said:

Yeah I got rid of it. But, I used to shoot it quite a bit, I think that's why I need a shoulder replacement today.

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You were one low-ready ND away from launching the world's cheapest interstellar space probe.

Also, as I switch between this tab and the one where I'm looking at a left handed Mark V in .375 H&H for $800 I'm conflicted. Sounds like most of the hate specific to the rifle is "It ain't worth what they charge." Other hate seems to be for the caliber.

But I bet it's worth $800, and people who hate .375 H&H are wrong so I might do it.

I want it for one thing, primarily: Grizzly defense in Alaska when I'm not above the ground in my bush plane.

The issue of controlled round feed vs. push feed has apparently been debated since 1999 as indicated by a forum post on The Firing Line by Gale McMillan chiming in about how he chose not to include CRF on the M40A1 when he and his team designed it for the military.

I dunno, though, is it really that important? I'm a lefty, so options are limited and this Weatherby is a real "fallen from the sky" kind of deal. I'm also interested in the CZ 550 but LH comes with a $400 premium minimum.

Radioactivebuny said:

You were one low-ready ND away from launching the world's cheapest interstellar space probe.

Also, as I switch between this tab and the one where I'm looking at a left handed Mark V in .375 H&H for $800 I'm conflicted. Sounds like most of the hate specific to the rifle is "It ain't worth what they charge." Other hate seems to be for the caliber.

But I bet it's worth $800, and people who hate .375 H&H are wrong so I might do it.

I want it for one thing, primarily: Grizzly defense in Alaska when I'm not above the ground in my bush plane.

The issue of controlled round feed vs. push feed has apparently been debated since 1999 as indicated by a forum post on The Firing Line by Gale McMillan chiming in about how he chose not to include CRF on the M40A1 when he and his team designed it for the military.

I dunno, though, is it really that important? I'm a lefty, so options are limited and this Weatherby is a real "fallen from the sky" kind of deal. I'm also interested in the CZ 550 but LH comes with a $400 premium minimum.

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Welcome to the mad house @Radioactivebuny !

A few markers to try to help...

#1 No-one sane has ever had an issue with the .375 H&H. The debate rages about the .375 Wby (which is an "improved" souped-up H&H with the case capacity increased by blowing out the shoulder. The two cartridges designs are so close that you can safely fire a .375 H&H in a .375 Wby chamber (but not the other way around). The .375 Wby shoots flatter and hits harder (at both ends). Some say it is not needed, some like it. I personally like the fact that a .375 Wby is in fact two guns in one, a .375 H&H & Wby, that gives you the best of both worlds.

There is no wrong move here. It is all a matter of personal preferences, with a few caveats:

#2 Grizzly defense implies close range and the need for decisive knock-down power. I would not select the .375 (either H&H or Wby) for that, if this is the gun's sole purpose. A .458 Win (or Lott) would be 10x better for your requirement. Won't shoot flat at 200 yd as the .375 will do, but makes a heck of a bigger hole, with a much heavier bullet, and delivers a whole lot more of stopping power. You could also look at a cheap rustic but reliable Russian double barrel rifle (EAA Baikal / Remington MR-221) in .45/70 loaded with modern loads from Garrett Cartridge or equivalent. Won't win a classic British gun beauty contest, but indestructible and surprisingly functional (the AK47 of doubles if you will), and you have that instant second shot that may save the day. A Marlin Guide Gun also comes to mind.

#3 If you decide to ignore the above consideration (you may like the ability to take a 200 yd shot at a moose or caribou?), if the Weatherby is a stainless steel gun with synthetic stock, I would buy it. Period. An Alaska bush plane backup gun is likely to be exposed to a lot of weather and may skip a few cleaning sessions, and this characteristic (stainless) - to me - would supersede any of the following, although - rationally - a 'defense' gun must wear iron sights, which may (?) already be on the Weatherby if you are REALLY lucky. They can be added too. Please note that I say "stainless" (as in the old Weathermark), preferably over silver Cerakoted (as in the current Weathermark). Carbon steel rusts after the cerakote is rubbed off...

#4 If the Weatherby is carbon steel and wood, and without iron sights, then the CZ 550 shines.
--- it is virtually indestructible, although it is a bit rough out of the box, but it can be easily smoothed in a few hours if you know what to do (we will advise you on what to do if you go that route).
--- it has actually usable and virtually bomb-proof iron sights. This may be useful after the scope gets broken in the plane crash LOL. More seriously, in any case you do not want to consider serious close-range 'defense' work with glass;
--- it has built-in scope mounts (dovetail) that cannot come loose because they are integral to the action. This is good on a gun that will be banged up around, and there are good detachable scope rings for them;
--- it has the legendary Mauser controlled round feed and the huge claw extractor. If you want to fit in nicely in the gentlemen's club, you MUST profess to consider these absolutely indispensable LOL. In reality, controlled round feed is useful because it prevents double feeding if you fumble the gun handling, or - more commonly - when you "play" with the gun, but if every hunter who used or uses a push feed was on a certifiable path to suicide, the design would have been expunged from the market a long time ago...
--- it has a 5+1 capacity which is very reassuring in 'defense' mode. The Weatherby only carries 3+1.
--- the bluing job is rough and it WILL rust, but external surface rust has never prevented a gun from shooting as long as you keep the chamber walls and bore clean and smooth (much easier with stainless);
--- the wood stock will wrap hopelessly in high humidity (CZ stocks are not sealed in the inletting), but you can put a $275 Bell & Carlson Medalist Kevlar & aluminum bedding block stock on it that is indestructible;
--- the CZ trigger-blocking safety MUST be replaced with a firing pin-blocking safety (i.e. Winchester 70 type, so-called "3 position" safety). That will add $300 to the cost. Conversely, the Mark V does have a firing pin-blocking safety.

#5 If the Weatherby is carbon steel and wood; does not come with iron sights; and does not come with scope bases & rings, you need to think hard about your options and your budget. You likely do not want a permanent scope on a 'defense' gun to be used at 10 yd on a charging Griz, therefore you NEED iron sights, although you may like the option of a detachable scope.
This means that for the Weatherby LH your total cost will be: $800 (gun) + $300 for barrel-band iron sights (you do not want flimsy screw-on iron sights) + $100 drill and tap the action for 8x40 base screws (6x48 screws are weak for .375 and up) + $200 for bases and detachable rings (Talley, Warne, etc.) = total $1,400 + low power scope later when money allows.
By comparison, the CZ 500 LH comes with iron sights and integral bases and need no drilling & tapping, so your total is $1,200 (gun) + $300 for the firing pin-blocking safety + $150 for the rings (Alaska Arms) = total $1,650 + low power scope later when money allows.
In both cases I would also add $275 for a Kevlar stock (Bell & Carlson) as soon as finances allow...

I hope this helps ;-)

That’s tremendous info, thank you.

I actually started my search looking for a lever gun in .45-70 (Jurassic World has made the 1895SBL impossible to find) but a survey on a forum I read showed most guides in Alaska used .375 so I figured why not, especially given the added power and versatility of the caliber. There’s a very good chance I’ll eventually make the .375 into a .458 Lott but I’ll start with .375. Buying a factory gun and having custom work done on it is easier for me as a lefty (unless you know of a place where I can get a bush plane ready .458 Lott for under $2,000)

I’m a lefty, so my choices are limited, especially above .375. The only 550 model ever made in LH was the .375. One of my main reasons for picking .375 is converting it to .458 Lott should I choose (which would utterly destroy it as a survival rifle unless I make some subsonic loads for it and I can shoot .22s and .410s out of a Judge). If the 550 came in LH .458 there’s a good chance I’d get it.

Also, CZ’s MSRP on the left hand 550 is $1,800, not the usual around $1,000. And it’s no longer made... any still in the pipe are all I got (didn’t find any used online) and the cheapest I’ve seen is $1,500.

I’ve also seen a Zastava LK M70 in .375 (~$900) but it’s 3+1 (though another $400 or so can get me to 5+1).

Anyway, based on what you’ve said I’m going to forego the Weatherby (its carbon steel and wood but has irons). It looked a little weird to me anyway...

I’d eventually want the rifle I get to be 20” long and cerakoted (unless it’s stainless steel).

So far it seems my best bet is that $1500 550 and over time cutting it down, putting a synthetic or laminate stock on it, cerakoting it, and eventually making it .458 Lott.

But if you know of a better idea please do tell.

Thanks for your help.

One Day... said:

Welcome to the mad house @Radioactivebuny !

A few markers to try to help...

#1 No-one sane has ever had an issue with the .375 H&H. The debate rages about the .375 Wby (which is an "improved" souped-up H&H with the case capacity increased by blowing out the shoulder. The two cartridges designs are so close that you can safely fire a .375 H&H in a .375 Wby chamber (but not the other way around). The .375 Wby shoots flatter and hits harder (at both ends). Some say it is not needed, some like it. I personally like the fact that a .375 Wby is in fact two guns in one, a .375 H&H & Wby, that gives you the best of both worlds.

There is no wrong move here. It is all a matter of personal preferences, with a few caveats:
................
#5 If the Weatherby is carbon steel and wood; does not come with iron sights; and does not come with scope bases & rings, you need to think hard about your options and your budget. You likely do not want a permanent scope on a 'defense' gun to be used at 10 yd on a charging Griz, therefore you NEED iron sights, although you may like the option of a detachable scope.
This means that for the Weatherby LH your total cost will be: $800 (gun) + $300 for barrel-band iron sights (you do not want flimsy screw-on iron sights) + $100 drill and tap the action for 8x40 base screws (6x48 screws are weak for .375 and up) + $200 for bases and detachable rings (Talley, Warne, etc.) = total $1,400 + low power scope later when money allows.
By comparison, the CZ 500 LH comes with iron sights and integral bases and need no drilling & tapping, so your total is $1,200 (gun) + $300 for the firing pin-blocking safety + $150 for the rings (Alaska Arms) = total $1,650 + low power scope later when money allows.
In both cases I would also add $275 for a Kevlar stock (Bell & Carlson) as soon as finances allow...

I hope this helps ;-)

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Radioactivebuny said:

That’s tremendous info, thank you.

I actually started my search looking for a lever gun in .45-70 (Jurassic World has made the 1895SBL impossible to find) but a survey on a forum I read showed most guides in Alaska used .375 so I figured why not, especially given the added power and versatility of the caliber. There’s a very good chance I’ll eventually make the .375 into a .458 Lott but I’ll start with .375. Buying a factory gun and having custom work done on it is easier for me as a lefty (unless you know of a place where I can get a bush plane ready .458 Lott for under $2,000)

I’m a lefty, so my choices are limited, especially above .375. The only 550 model ever made in LH was the .375. One of my main reasons for picking .375 is converting it to .458 Lott should I choose (which would utterly destroy it as a survival rifle unless I make some subsonic loads for it and I can shoot .22s and .410s out of a Judge). If the 550 came in LH .458 there’s a good chance I’d get it.

Also, CZ’s MSRP on the left hand 550 is $1,800, not the usual around $1,000. And it’s no longer made... any still in the pipe are all I got (didn’t find any used online) and the cheapest I’ve seen is $1,500.

I’ve also seen a Zastava LK M70 in .375 (~$900) but it’s 3+1 (though another $400 or so can get me to 5+1).

Anyway, based on what you’ve said I’m going to forego the Weatherby (its carbon steel and wood but has irons). It looked a little weird to me anyway...

I’d eventually want the rifle I get to be 20” long and cerakoted (unless it’s stainless steel).

So far it seems my best bet is that $1500 550 and over time cutting it down, putting a synthetic or laminate stock on it, cerakoting it, and eventually making it .458 Lott.

But if you know of a better idea please do tell.

Thanks for your help.

Click to expand...

Have you seen this listing on Gun Broker: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/778871182 @Radioactivebuny? They ask for $3,195, which is more than what we have been discussing, BUT it includes a lot of what you want: $500 VX3I 1.5-5 Leupold Illium with quality 30 mm detachable rings, and the $1,795.00 American Hunting Rifle package #2 (3 position safety, barrel band swivel, shortened barrel, single stage direct trigger, cerakote, etc.). The AHR packages have always seemed a bit pricey to me (I do most of my own gun work), but they have a very good reputation and the math puts the gun itself at $900, which is dirt cheap for a left handed CZ 550. The other way to look at it is that if a baseline gun is $1,500, the scope is $500, the rings are $150, the safety is $300, the barrel band swivel is $150, the trigger is $150, and chopping the barrel is $150, you are already at $2,900, so tuning the action, straightening and filling the bolt handle (which is nice), and cerakoting the gun all together are valued at $295. In so many words, the gun is sold at replacement cost, which may not be entirely ridiculous IF it is used but in "as new" condition. To be verified with the vendor, but generally these guns are either worn out PH guns, or barely fired client guns... And they do take credit cards LOL!!!
More seriously, at this "new" price, the gun is likely not going to sell fast, and they give you the opportunity to make an offer. Maybe $2,500? Potentially maybe not a bad deal actually, especially if the left handed CZ are vanishing fast. You can always add a AHR left hand synthetic stock later, although they ARE bloody expensive ($995).

Also, have you looked at a LH Winchester Model 70 Classic Stainless? That could work too, and probably much cheaper IF you can find one... Too bad you are a southpaw LOL https://www.gunbroker.com/item/779210348

As to .375 H&H vs. .458 Lott, I have both and can tell you that you should not underestimate that the .458 Lott will kick back a lot more, actually more than twice as much. Most everyone can shoot a .375 H&H (37 ft lbs of free recoil in a 9 lb rifle), NOT everyone can shoot a .458 Lott (almost 80 ft lbs of free recoil in a 9 lb rifle). The issue can be mitigated somewhat in shooting .458 Win in the Lott chamber (a little over 60 ft lbs of free recoil in a 9 lb rifle), which is perfectly safe. Will a .458 be better than a .375 as a 'defense' gun? No question; it would be silly to pretend otherwise. Would a .375 be ridiculous at the task? Not by a long shot...

One Day... said:

Come to think of it, a fifth factor in the recoil equation would be: how often do you shoot the "big guns"? You DO get used to it, IF you have proper technique, the gun is of proper weight, and the scope does not cut you every time you pull the trigger...

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One day I will add two other factors that greatly influence felt recoil.
1) Stock design. Some stocks feel like a 35 Whelen kicks like a mule, change the same rifle into a different shaped/cut/designed stock and the felt recoil is way less.
2) Stock material. Some synthetic stocks absorb a bit of the recoil. The felt recoil from my Rem 700 in 375 H&H, with a shitty SPS plastic stock and weighing about 2lb lighter than the CZ550 in 375H&H is noticeably less.

never owned a weatherby had a friend tha had a very nice looking weatherby in a 270 that he wanted to sell after 5 shots from a bench I was wondering if my shoulder was broke.the thing kicked much harder than my savage 300 win mag,I decided that I really didn't need that purdy gun.

The first time I brought a 458 WM to bear camp in the US it was met by "oooh's and ahhhhh's" some interest, some teasing and one guy offering stupidity and hostility to round and owner. I offered a shoot off and he refused citing that he didn't want to embarrass me and waste his ammo, which I made anyway.

I went outside to shoot a target and a few went out with the smallest guy being about 5'1" and 140 pounds who's nickname is "Tampon". He shot it well and did well with it.

The following day I let one off the chain on a bear that later was proven to be 26 years old by a state mandatory age test. Tampon was with me when I shot and and was like a giggily girl as he went and got the other guy to help drag it out and showed them the exit and pieces of organs hanging in bushes 10 yards away. The beauty was that the bear never moved an inch. So is that too much? And if your answer is yes, then why is it too much and would a 378 or 460 be too much for even larger game in the hands of someone who can handle it?

A friend takes his old rifle out at about midnight the night before hunting and decides to adjust trigger that has been set for the last 20 year after being talked into it by the guy he's been pounding beers down with for the last 12 hours.

After he put the weapon back together and takes it outside and puts a live round in it and when he comes the bolt the gun goes off.

Gun's fault? Not hardly

A Mauser that the bolt is locked after firing and when the bolt is booted open it is found to have cruddy brass and a chamber that was fouled like it had rocksalt packed in it. Gun's fault? Not hardly.

Upon being prodded by his buddies to scrape the crud off his old cases a kitchen table gun expert gets out some 4/0 steel wool and starts cleaning and does a nice job. So it doesn't happen again he sprays then all with WD.-40 and .Kills all the primers and powder...except one that isn't all the way dead and jambs one in the barrel. But our hero didn't stop there and doused the entire gun and it fluid by passed the orings in his scope giving it permanent freckles on the inside of the glass.

It's snowing like crazy and our shotgun with slug toting hero does not take a balloon offered him and goes under an evergreen that dumps a ton of snow on him. 10 minutes later he gets a shot and his barrel bursts

In all of these, the gun, the ammo and even the scope got some of the blame thrown on them by the guys who deserved it all.

I have had two recalls from Remington over the years for possible trigger malfunctions.

I believe that the same people who constantly see so many malfunctions and disasters are probably also seeing little green men scampering around in the shadows as well.

Well written.

Dr Ray said:

Well written.

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Yes.

Like that woman who carried a loaded rifle across a car park, into her RV, pointed it at her son , pulled the trigger, shot him and sued Remington for ‘making an unsafe rifle’.