Advice on 416 scope

Philip Glass said:

Which Leupold do you have? I have the VX6 1-6X24mm DG scope and it gathers light well. I really like it and took elephant, hippo, Buffalo, lechewe, and baboon with it on my .416 Ruger. The VX 6 is quite expensive but in a class all by itself!
Philip

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Hi @Philip Glass I bought several of the Leupold 1.5x5x30mm illuminated and 1.5x5x24mm non-illuminated scopes. Ironically, they are the same scopes, the 30mm provides ZERO additional glass or light gathering, its just the 24mm glass in a 30mm tube making room for electronics. The light gathering on these scopes is abysmal @ a $400-$500 pricepoint. A vintage Schmidt & Bender 1-4x straight tube on eBay was way, way, way better at the same cost. My beef with Leupold is that while they all have great warranties and are durable, until you're spending around $1000 the light gathering is pretty poor. Once you run into the "good" leupolds we are now in the range I pay for S&B, Swaro, premium Zeiss, and premium Leica.

flatwater bill said:

DrR...........I went and looked at a Swaro, at your suggestion. It is exactly the right scope! Unfortunately, if I buy it, I cannot afford the eland/buff hunt that it is intended for. Shtst.....I am going to try to find a Nikon Monarch to look at....thanks to both....................FW Bill

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Have you looked at Vortex? I have the Razor 1-6x24 on my CZ458 and it works fine. Have swing off mounts for quick release in thick bush conditions.
My one 375 H&H Mag has a Swaro 1-5x20 with illuminated reticle.
Very fine scopes both of them

rookhawk said:

Hi @Philip Glass I bought several of the Leupold 1.5x5x30mm illuminated and 1.5x5x24mm non-illuminated scopes. Ironically, they are the same scopes, the 30mm provides ZERO additional glass or light gathering, its just the 24mm glass in a 30mm tube making room for electronics. The light gathering on these scopes is abysmal @ a $400-$500 pricepoint.

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Its important to remember, that going from a 1" to 30mm tube, does not, and is not intended to, increase light transmission. Light transmission is directly related to objective size, lens coatings, and glass quality and number of lenses. Tube diameter has no effect.

A 30mm tube allows for more adjustment range and sometimes makes for a stronger tube due to increased wall thickness, not always though. 30mm scopes are not needed for illuminated reticles, but many do utilize a side illumination control with a 30mm tube.


Being that light transmission is tied directly to objective size and lens (coating, quality, and quantity), if you're looking for a higher LT, better to go with a larger objective than 24mm to start. This brings into question of exit pupil and usable light as well. Depending on your age and how your pupils dilate, many scopes in this range give ample usable light, some are more finicky. If you have a high mag scope with small objective, you will have a much narrower EP and require a very precise cheek weld and still not achieve the brightness you desire depending on conditions.

We can also get into how some companies achieve these higher percentages. I've been fortunate enough to be around when many were cut open, even the highest dollar models, to see what they are working with. I've seen numerous companies remove lenses from previous years models to achieve more LT or swap various grades of glass to get different weights or LT. The optics world is truly amazing.

You cant go wrong with a Leupold, a Swaro, a Trijicon, etc, but there may be one that meets your specific needs. Mine was a leupold vx3 2-8x36. Had the ER, LT, EP, Mag, weight, and durability I needed and at an employee price was a no brainer personally. I would certainly swap it for a VX6 as mentioned by @Philip Glass pr @CAustin in a heartbeat as well.

Bruce.............thanks.....I will look at that model of Vortex. TT..................doesnt a 30 mm straight tube allow for an objective diameter of 24mm as opposed to the 20mm objective on a 1" straight tube? (no objective bell)....and give 44% more light gathering.....all else equal? I have certainly been hunting when the 20mm objective of my 250 Savage's 1.5X5 Leupold did not give adequate light.....wanted a little more with the classic straight look......FWIW I saw two Z6i scopes on ebay used, buy it now for $1750 and $2000......so still too high to suit me.......Nikon Monarch cheap on auction site, looks good, good enough?...Thanks for the informative post........................FW Bill

Philip Glass said:

We have basically the same setup my friend!
Philip

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And we both a have taken many trophies with this setup

PG, CAus.........................I go to look at LeupoldVX-6 tomorrow......................I see several models of this scope on Leupold's webpage........perhaps one in stock locally.....CA......love the photo btw...............FW Bill

flatwater bill said:

PG, CAus.........................I go to look at LeupoldVX-6 tomorrow......................I see several models of this scope on Leupold's webpage........perhaps one in stock locally.....CA......love the photo btw...............FW Bill

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Can’t go wrong with Leupold!

I looked at a Nikon Monarch that a friend has...........1-4 German reticle.......there may be something wrong with this $270 scope.....but if so, I could not see it. Yeah, won't gather light like a 8X56 Schmidt and Bender, but it is a lot of value for the money. I will put it on this summer and shoot it in varying light conditions, if it is not quite what I need, I can use it on a lesser gun. I must say, that this Ruger Magnum (African) I am going to try it on is a lot of gun, and esthetics wise, and functionally, the 30mm Leupold may be better......Although this rifle is a nice gun and in the Rigby cartridge, it is a far cry from the actual Rigby bolt of years gone by......and I don't see myself keeping this behemoth after my buff/eland trip...........Ruger made these CRF, English walnut, quarter rib express sight rifles very good in 1989, but with some simple changes, they could have been great rifles...........................Bill

I have a Trijacon 1.25-4X24 picket post reticle and a Aimpoint 9000L for my 416Rigby. I used the Trijacon - didn't have the Aimpoint at the time- for my Buff and Ele hunt in Zim. Great scope and reticle + 5" of eye relief. Both the above are tough scopes. This scope is now discontinued and replaced with a 1-4x24. that has a shorter eye relief.

The Picket post looks weird but soon get use to it and works for both pinpoint and up close and fast. The point of the picket for croc, hippo brain shots and just cover the brain of the Ele or buff up close with the triangle.

I picked up a 1-6x24 Sig Sauer Tango6. Been impressed with it so far, but to be far I haven't hunted any DG with it either. It has an illuminated reticle, 30mm tube, been pretty happy with it. I got it for about $650.

Bill I have the same rifle as you and have gone through a similar train of thought. The rifle currently wears a weaver grand slam 1.5-5 x32 which is discontinued now. Its not bad but is not in the same league as the Swaro z3s I own. For now the waver is staying If I could afford it I would be getting Z6 1-24EE with out question.. Another option may be the Bushnell 6500 1.25-8x32- its been discontinued but a quick look reveals some are still available .

Cheers
TW

Z6i, 1-6, circle dot. Extended eye relief if you can find it.

Ive got a 1-4x Zeiss Conquest V4 on my DG rifle (the new conquest line that was just released at this years SHOT show).. for the money I think its pretty hard to beat..

I know there arent a whole lot of Zeiss fans here.. but, for me at least, getting a 1-4x with an illuminated reticle, 30mm tube, and Schott AB glass, etc..etc.. for an MSRP of $800 (we paid a good bit less than that for it).. was too good of a deal to pass up...

Light gathering is extremely good.. its rugged (over 60 rounds of 375H&H fired under it at this point from the bench and no problems at all).. the glass is clear, etc..etc..

Its what I'll be taking on a buff hunt next year.. either on the 375.. or on a larger gun if I manage to get one built, tested, and trained/practiced with enough before the trip (giving some serious thought to building either a .416 taylor or a .458 win mag later this year...)..

I really like the one Zeiss scope I have. Can’t deny Swarovski makes great scopes but I don’t see well through them. Neither do I see well through Nikon or Vortex until you get to the Razor line. I see very well in low light with my VX-R and VX-3.

Which goes to show there is no scope company that is the be all end all for everyone. Our eyes are different. I see better through a Burris Fullfield II than I do any Viper or Monarch. I’m sure there are people for whom the opposite holds true.

flatwater bill said:

DrR...........I went and looked at a Swaro, at your suggestion. It is exactly the right scope! Unfortunately, if I buy it, I cannot afford the eland/buff hunt that it is intended for. Shtst.....I am going to try to find a Nikon Monarch to look at....thanks to both....................FW Bill

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That’s a problem. A compromise is the only way then. Perhaps you could sell a few safe queens??

Dr R............................yes............that is my plan...........in fact about 100 of them........................recently learned to post foto on this and other sites..................a necessary pre req...................but living in one of the few dead zones in the nation, upload speed is sooooooo slow, that interruption of fotos common........and fotos necessary to sell safe queens...........I now have the Nikon Monarch, plenty of them avail even though discontinued, and may stay with it. Rkhk..............on Ebay and bargain cave, but cheapest Z6 at 1799 that I have seen, all others over 2K, and admit may not be looking correctly everywhere..............thanks all............Bill

Leupold VX-6 and 416; a match made in heaven.

For the this type of optic, I think the VX6 is the best balance of value, glass, and quality.

I use a 1x4 leupold hvy duplex on my 458 lott. Been used and abused and still going. A 13/4 x6 on my 340 Wby, that is a leupold, and has been on horseback, 3 Kodiak 3 week float trips and main PG gun on several African trips. Picked up a 416 recently and had a 2x7 hvy crosshair leupold in the box, so put it to use.
May change the 416 to a trijicon RMR. H ave been using RMRs for several years and believe they could be useful on DG rifles.

I have a 1.5-5x Leupold with the heavy duplex reticle on my .416 Ruger. I love it. This combo has about 600 rounds thru it. HOWEVER... I am considering replacing with a 1-6xTrijicon. I like the idea of an illuminated reticle without needing a battery.
I think as long as you get a reputable higher end scope with a low end magnification of 1 or 1.5x and a high end of between 6 and 8x you'll be happy.

flatwater bill said:

Appreciate any thoughts on what scope some of you like best for my application: Bolt action .416 Rigby, short to medium range, dangerous game. Hopefully some buff hunters can comment on reticle......thanks.............FW Bill

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I went through this exact deal with my .416 Rigby by CZ. I got a Leupold VX-R 2-7x33 with firedot reticle. I LOVE it and I got it for $500. It's , imo, BY FAR, the best value and scope for the money, hands down. The firedot illuminated reticle is AWESOME, I don't think I will get another scope without this. On a black buff it was perfect and it was on other stuff as well, like pigs. Really helps you get on target fast and in the spot you want. Everybody gets QD mounts but I really wonder if that matters or is better? Personally, I have them but would not get again. PH is there as a back-up and many articles say it's better with a scope even for close up.