10mm Buffalo

I just read an interesting article on hand gun hunting in the magazine "Sporting Classics". The author did a hunt report on his taking of a large cape buff bull with a 10mm semi auto handgun, 5 inch barrel. Bullet was 200 grain double Tap, muzzle energy listed as 750 ft pounds. Range was quite short, and I'm sure the hunter was an expert shot. Still, it stretches the envelope for what is possible....reasonable....humane. The outcome was a dead trophy buff, of course, or the report could not have been written. No one wants to publish a report entitled "how I used too little a gun, and wounded a magnificent animal". But I wonder.....? Is this an OK idea? I would like to hear the thoughts of my fellow hunters on using a firearm with 40% the energy of a factory 30-30 Winchester carbine. Safe hunting to all....................................................Flatwater Bill

Where was the hunt? maybe I will dust off my .177 BSA super meteor pellet gun and see what we can do.....

flatwater bill said:

I just read an interesting article on hand gun hunting in the magazine "Sporting Classics". The author did a hunt report on his taking of a large cape buff bull with a 10mm semi auto handgun, 5 inch barrel. Bullet was 200 grain double Tap, muzzle energy listed as 750 ft pounds. Range was quite short, and I'm sure the hunter was an expert shot. Still, it stretches the envelope for what is possible....reasonable....humane. The outcome was a dead trophy buff, of course, or the report could not have been written. No one wants to publish a report entitled "how I used too little a gun, and wounded a magnificent animal". But I wonder.....? Is this an OK idea? I would like to hear the thoughts of my fellow hunters on using a firearm with 40% the energy of a factory 30-30 Winchester carbine. Safe hunting to all....................................................Flatwater Bill

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Was the hunter in the article Razor Dobbs?

Razor Dobbs was on my return flight from Joberg last Sept. it appeared he had an entorauge with him. He constantly pushes the CZ (Dan Wesson) 10mm pistol on his show. He is a very good shot with it on his show.

He must have gotten a special permit to get to use it and even take it into SA I would presume.

Razor Dobbs did a 10mm Auto shoot in RSA at @AAA Africa Serapa Safaris. Double Tap Ammo is one of this shows sponsors.

I hear Razor Dobbs is actually a pretty good guy in person, but I can't stand his show. Come to think of it, there aren't many hunting shows or personalities I do like. Too many commercials and pushing products people really don't need to enjoy a hunt.

I've heard he is a good guy. When I first saw his show I couldn't stand it, then it grew on me and was one of the few hunting shows I actually watched. I've pretty much quit watching now, every hunt (at least every one my DVR records) is with the 10mm. I'm not anti-handgun hunting but I don't find it particularly riveting.

375 Ruger Fan said:

I hear Razor Dobbs is actually a pretty good guy in person, but I can't stand his show. . . . .

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CEO said:

I've heard he is a good guy. When I first saw his show I couldn't stand it, then it grew on me and was one of the few hunting shows I actually watched. . . .

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About two years ago, I was invited by @AAA Africa Serapa Safaris to a meet and greet at his house. He and his wife were very gracious hosts. I have watched his show a few times, but I admit it's not my favorite. He is a very nice guy. He does carry that 10mm regularly, and was carrying it at the meet and greet, made my Walther that I carry look tiny.

Some years ago a Native woman 80+ yrs old named Annie Campjack shot one of the largest Grizzly's with a 22 short. She went out at night headed for the Outhouse and the Grizzly reared up beside the path. She had her 22 single shot and immediately fired at the bear. She then turned and ran back to her Cabin as I guess the Outhouse wasn't that important anymore. When her son arrived the next day he went to look for the bear. He found him dead on the trail. She had shot him straight thru the mouth and hit the spine from the inside. Just goes back to shot placement!!

Razor arrived at Serapa a day or two after my wife and I did in Oct 2016. He is a very nice gent in person. We pretty much shared a table with him at all of our meals. I did ask him about getting that pistol into RSA as well as the other countries he had hunted on that trip. As I recall it was a process but not that big of a deal. The bullets he used on the buff were developed just for that purpose, a very hard bullet. I would guess the bullet acted as a 10mm solid, roughly a 0.39 caliber hole. I know he used that pistol to take a blue wildebeest at about 100 yards at Serapa. So yeah, I think he's quite accurate with it.

Taking a Cape buffalo with a 10mm auto is a stunt and one that, quite frankly, does not impress me. The same goes for taking a buffalo with a bow. Yeah, it can be done but, with a PH standing backup with some serious firepower, there’s nothing more to it than making the shot and getting enough penetration. I’ve nothing against a person who does so, I’m just not impressed with the accomplishment, that’s all.

I guess a bunch of us have run into Razor, my wife and I sat with him on the Delta flight to Joburg in 2016. Seemed like a pretty nice guy, didn't even know who he was till I got home and googled him. Definetly likes his 10mm and double tap ammo. Watched a couple YouTube videos of his and not all that impressed with them but hey each to their own.

Razor filmed one of his shows doing this with Tonie DU Bruyn of wild wildebeest safaris. I have it on my Dvr. I had just come back that week from hunting with them when it aired.

Tony is a great guy and the hunt looked pretty exciting. Dobbs can really shoot it

It appears the 10mm as well as a semi auto is legal for hunting in RSA.

Is it a good idea to use one on Buffalo? I think not.

Minimum barrel lengths for handgun hunting 22. (1) The following norms apply to minimum barrel lengths of handguns for the purpose of hunting-
(a) 100mm for(i) centre fire single action revolver; (ii) centre fire double action revolver; (iii) rimfire single action revolver; and (iv) rimfire double action revolver. (b) 150rmm for(i) centre fire single action break neck pistol for the hunting of(aa) any furred game; and (bb) feathered game, including ostrich; (ii) rimfire single action break neck pistol for the hunting of(aa) furred game up to and including the size of a rock hyrax; and (bb) feathered game; (iii) centre fire bolt action pistol for the hunting of(aa) furred game; and (bb) feathered game, including an ostrich;(iv) rimfire bolt action pistol for the hunting of(aa) furred game up to and including the size of a rock hyrax; and (bb) feathered game; (v) centre fire falling block pistol for the hunting of(aa) furred game; and (bb) feathered game, including an ostrich; and (vi) rimfire falling block pistol for the hunting of(aa) furred game up to and including the size of a rock hyrax; and (bb) feathered game; and (c) 125mm for(i) centre fire semi-automatic pistol; and (ii) rimfire semi-automatic pistol.

Minimum calibers for handgun hunting 23. (1) The following norms apply to minimum calibers for revolvers(a) a rimfire single or double action revolver for the hunting of-(i) furred game up to and including the size of a rock hyrax; and (ii) feathered game; (b) a centre fire single or double action revolver of less than .357 magnum caliber for the hunting of furred game larger than rock hyrax, up to and including the size of a grey duiker; and (c) a centre fire single or double action revolver of .357 magnum or larger caliber for the hunting of(i) furred game larger than grey duiker; and (ii) ostrich. (2) The following norms apply to minimum calibers for semi-automatic pistols( a) a rimfire semi-automatic pistol for the hunting of(i) furred game up to and including the size of a rock hyrax; and (ii) feathered game; (b) a centre fire semi-automatic pistol smaller than .357 magnum or 357 Sig for the hunting of furred game larger than rock hyrax up to and including the size of a grey duiker; and(c) a centre fire semi-automatic pistol of .357 magnum or 357 Sig or larger for the hunting of(i) furred game larger than the size of grey duiker; and (ii) ostrich.

https://www.environment.gov.za/site...tices/nemba_huntingindustry_g32798gen1614.pdf

I wonder if I could score a good bull as well with a Red Rider BB gun?

The plan, I wait until a big bull is having a drink at the watering hole. I sneak up behind and shoot him in the clackers when he has his head in the water. I get my trophy once he drowns!

What do you think, good plan?

Excellent plan. I’ll stay here while you do that .lol

fsrmg1 said:

I wonder if I could score a good bull as well with a Red Rider BB gun?

The plan, I wait until a big bull is having a drink at the watering hole. I sneak up behind and shoot him in the clackers when he has his head in the water. I get my trophy once he drowns!

What do you think, good plan?

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Sounds like a plan! I will video for you from the safety of a elevated tree blind!

Just supply your own box for the remains!

Phil..................and all, thanks for comments. I should know the name of the author, but I was reading Sporting Classics ( a great mag) at an airport, and foolishly forgot the magazine when my flight was called. Hence, no specifics. Sounds as if many know who this is. Whether or not he is a nice guy may be tangential to the issue here....just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. We have all heard anecdotes about Uncle Charlie killing a charging rhino with an Air-Soft gun, but I live in the real world. Things like that don't happen to me. One should use a weapon that they can consistently produce clean kills with. It appears Razor can do so with the 10mm. Most of us should probably not try it..............FWB

CTDolan said:

Taking a Cape buffalo with a 10mm auto is a stunt and one that, quite frankly, does not impress me. The same goes for taking a buffalo with a bow. Yeah, it can be done but, with a PH standing backup with some serious firepower, there’s nothing more to it than making the shot and getting enough penetration. I’ve nothing against a person who does so, I’m just not impressed with the accomplishment, that’s all.

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Just to add to this, there is no evidence Native Americans used bows on buffalo until the horse was reintroduced to the new world. It appears all buffalo hunting was done with spears. I imagine it is the same no matter what the continent.

CTDolan said:

Taking a Cape buffalo with a 10mm auto is a stunt and one that, quite frankly, does not impress me. The same goes for taking a buffalo with a bow. Yeah, it can be done but, with a PH standing backup with some serious firepower, there’s nothing more to it than making the shot and getting enough penetration. I’ve nothing against a person who does so, I’m just not impressed with the accomplishment, that’s all.

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I never wanted to impress anybody when I hunted buffalo with a longbow - twice by myself with no back-up rifle, once accompanied by a bloke with a thirty-thirty, and once resting my double on the ground while I sent the arrow. It’s not about impressing, it’s about memories that I want and enjoy. That’s what all my hunting means to me - the memories of adventures while playing my part in wilderness conservation.