TV star hunts livestock

PHOENIX PHIL said:
I don't disagree but consider this is Jim Shockey. He is a spokesperson for hunting as a whole. He promotes sustainable use conservation and lauds those who practice it. Could it be that this episode is being used to praise the efforts of Sami people and their conservation of reindeer and not so much about some epic hunt? I don't know the answer to that obviously, but again I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt and wait until I've had a chance to see the show. I realize these reindeer have been domesticated. But I'm not sure the rest of the world necessarily sees these animals like a cow or a pig.
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There are no conservation involved. These animals are "cattle" and that it is why I reacted negatively when I saw that a conservation spokesperson was involved in these types of hunts.
 
Dragan N. said:
That makes more sense now, as assuming Sweden has similar property laws as most of the West, I would find I surprising that it would be illegal to "hunt" livestock given the owner's permission. As livestock I assume is considered the owner's property.

However, if reindeer in Sweden are considered livestock and there are no wild herds left I can definitely understand blue Moon's point. As if a hunting t.v. star went on a hunt for a cow on a cattle ranch in the American west I think it is safe to say it wouldn't look very good...
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Yes, it is very comparable with hunting a cow and this is exactly why it does not look good. Legal issues set aside, there are no sportmansship involved at all and no Swedish hunter that I know of would even consider going on a hunt like this.
 
But if you have permission to hunt on public/private land you can carry a rifle for the appropriate class you are after.
Are you claiming that the people did not have a hunting license?
Is this part of the ongoing debate of the mountain hunts between the Same and the rest of the Swedish hunters that has been going on forever?

//Gus

Edit: Saw all the responses posted while I typed. All clear from my side.
 
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Hunting Sailor said:
But if you have permission to hunt on public/private land you can carry a rifle for the appropriate class you are after.
Are you claiming that the people did not have a hunting license?
Is this part of the ongoing debate of the mountain hunts between the Same and the rest of the Swedish hunters that has been going on forever?

//Gus
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How do you apply for a hunting license on "live cattle"? :) To be honest the whole situation is a bit bizarre. As you pointed out correctly the mountain areas are a political mess with ongoing legal processes, identity politics, debates and much more. The second largest hunting organization claims in an article on their web site that owners of reindeer are not allowed to open up hunts on them. I am claiming that these hunts lack sportsmanship. The rest seems to fall into a grey area, and it it best to leave that to legal experts and authorities for them to sort out.
 
Blue Moon said:
There are no conservation involved. These animals are "cattle" and that it is why I reacted negatively when I saw that a conservation spokesperson was involved in these types of hunts.
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As I stated, I realize that the reindeer are domesticated. And I see your point. At the same time, outside of Sweden, many won't think of the reindeer as cattle or hogs. The point that Jim may make in the episode is that the Sami people have kept a reindeer population alive and what seems well in Sweden, to me that's conservation. And to that extent and the work it involves, the Sami people have made a business out of it. And thus sustainable use conservation.

Yes, that may be a stretch. But again I'll refrain from forming any firm conclusions or opinions about this until I've at least seen the show. That seems fair and reasonable.

Ironically over on the other forum there is a thread going on right now about a large elephant that was taken in Zimbabwe. The elephant had been collared and under study. But the bull had wandered out of the national park it had been residing in and into a hunting area and was taken by a Russian hunter. The whole situation could blow up into another Cecil episode. This fueled in fact by other hunters immediately criticizing the PH based on little knowledge and some incorrect information. So once again we have a situation of hunters turning on other hunters without actually having the facts. And now that those facts have been brought to light, those attacking the PH look pretty foolish.

I prefer not to jump to hasty conclusions generally speaking, but especially when it comes to one of our own, whether it be Jim Shockey or a Swedish gentleman on AH that I've never met. And I sure don't want to make a fool of myself knowing that there may be more to the story.
 
I've noticed an uptick of obvious trolls in three of the forums I frequently visit and from my perspective, there have been more than a few on here recently. Be careful answering "polls" and threads that start off with innocent sounding questions like "what do you use on prairie dogs"?

I'm glad Blue Moon followed up with more background on his first post.
 
PHOENIX PHIL said:
As I stated, I realize that the reindeer are domesticated. And I see your point. At the same time, outside of Sweden, many won't think of the reindeer as cattle or hogs. The point that Jim may make in the episode is that the Sami people have kept a reindeer population alive and what seems well in Sweden, to me that's conservation. And to that extent and the work it involves, the Sami people have made a business out of it. And thus sustainable use conservation.

Yes, that may be a stretch. But again I'll refrain from forming any firm conclusions or opinions about this until I've at least seen the show. That seems fair and reasonable.

Ironically over on the other forum there is a thread going on right now about a large elephant that was taken in Zimbabwe. The elephant had been collared and under study. But the bull had wandered out of the national park it had been residing in and into a hunting area and was taken by a Russian hunter. The whole situation could blow up into another Cecil episode. This fueled in fact by other hunters immediately criticizing the PH based on little knowledge and some incorrect information. So once again we have a situation of hunters turning on other hunters without actually having the facts. And now that those facts have been brought to light, those attacking the PH look pretty foolish.

I prefer not to jump to hasty conclusions generally speaking, but especially when it comes to one of our own, whether it be Jim Shockey or a Swedish gentleman on AH that I've never met. And I sure don't want to make a fool of myself knowing that there may be more to the story.
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I also hope that it is much more to the story and a positive spin, not least because Mr Shockey does a lot of good things for hunting. It is difficult to make it into a conservation thing though because both two species of wild reindeer were extinguished mostly because of their interference with the ranching (poaching also played a role in that). I totally agree that correct information is essential. I think your position on the matter is a very good one. :)
 
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PHOENIX PHIL said:
Ironically over on the other forum there is a thread going on right now about a large elephant that was taken in Zimbabwe. The elephant had been collared and under study. But the bull had wandered out of the national park it had been residing in and into a hunting area and was taken by a Russian hunter. The whole situation could blow up into another Cecil episode. This fueled in fact by other hunters immediately criticizing the PH based on little knowledge and some incorrect information. So once again we have a situation of hunters turning on other hunters without actually having the facts. And now that those facts have been brought to light, those attacking the PH look pretty foolish.
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I’ve been following as well. With disappointment and disgust, I might add. :E Pissed:

We would all do well to attempt to gather, assimilate and understand the facts prior to passing judgement on compex issues which likely have several legitimate points of view. Myself included. Especially when our words and actions may have implications beyond just ourselves.
 
Shootist43 said:
Welcome aboard Blue Moon. Now that the "fog" has been cleared away it is relatively easy to see that you are an ethical hunter whose posts belong here. Thank you for clarifying your point and not giving up on AH. How about posting some stories and photos of your previous hunts. Do you have any plans or thoughts about hunting Africa in the future?
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Thank you, I have friends who have hunted in Africa and they speak highly of it. I have no plans of going in the near future, but hopefully I will be able to go there on day. Just need to save a little more money ... :) Some of the hunting reports on this forum are just fantastic and are a great read.(y)
 
Agreed "we" hunters and people here tend to jump to hasty conclusions, me included. Just keep clearing the fog and clarifying without getting personal. This story reminds me of a bison (buffalo) hunt in South Dakota. They are owned and ranched much like cattle but can be hunted with permission and a fee. Probably much the same. Haven't been "wild" for over a hundred years.
 
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Absent clear and convincing evidence to the contrary, Jim will get the benefit of ANY doubts from me.
 
This thread smells
 
Jfet said:
Found this link that says the Jim Shockey show originally aired August 25, 2013

http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/jim-shockeys-hunting-adventures/episode-22557717/346690/

The biggest target for the anti-hunters to bring down is Jim Shockey. It is amazing what a good video editor and sound guy can make you think you see on video. Especially if you don't know what you are looking at. This smells.
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It just recently aired over here (this autumn) on the Outdoor Channel. This channel is not something the general public can view but rather part of a add-on package from one of the cable TV providers. If I knew that it was an old episode I would of course have stated that and I am sorry for that. :cry: That does not however make the hunts more acceptable. And it was only recently when a Hungarian politician was caught in a corruption scandal that it was brought to the general public's (and my) attention that reindeer hunts were sold. I stand by my claim that these hunts are not good sportsmanship, but at the end of the day it is of course up to everyone do decide for themselves what is and what is not.
 
Blue Moon said:
It just recently aired over here (this autumn) on the Outdoor Channel. This channel is not something the general public can view but rather part of a add-on package from one of the cable TV providers. If I knew that it was an old episode I would of course have stated that and I am sorry for that. :cry: That does not however make the hunts more acceptable.
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Have you actually seen the show in which Jim Shockey actually hunts and kills a reindeer in Sweden. I have not seen the show. It seems you are very intent on portraying Jim in a poor light. AF is a digital campfire. We come here from around the world to share our stories. We develop a strong bond of friendship through our discussions, sharing of our options, and disagreements. In many cases we have spent the time and money to meet with each other at the DSC Convention or SCI. Some of us have even met up and gone hunting. Your first appearance around the fire is to bring a disheartening message. You do speak politely which is always a good indicator. However, there was TV show in the U. S. during the 1950's and 1960's called "Leave it to Beaver". Redleg and Phoenix Phil saw the show in its original run. I have only seen it in reruns. There is a character in the show by the name Eddie Haskel. He always spoke politely, too
 
K-man said:
This story reminds me of a bison (buffalo) hunt in South Dakota. They are owned and ranched much like cattle but can be hunted with permission and a fee. Probably much the same. Haven't been "wild" for over a hundred years.
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This is exactly what I thought of when I started reading this thread. We have high fence hunting for whitetail here. We also hunt deer over bait, which some criticize. If you personally find a method of legal hunting offensive, don't participate. I'm with Hank Jr. "I'm against fishin' in the rain".
 
thriller said:
This thread smells
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Jfet said:
Have you actually seen the show in which Jim Shockey actually hunts and kills a reindeer in Sweden. I have not seen the show. It seems you are very intent on portraying Jim in a poor light. AF is a digital campfire. We come here from around the world to share our stories. We develop a strong bond of friendship through our discussions, sharing of our options, and disagreements. In many cases we have spent the time and money to meet with each other at the DSC Convention or SCI. Some of us have even met up and gone hunting. Your first appearance around the fire is to bring a disheartening message. You do speak politely which is always a good indicator. However, there was TV show in the U. S. during the 1950's and 1960's called "Leave it to Beaver". Redleg and Phoenix Phil saw the show in its original run. I have only seen it in reruns. There is a character in the show by the name Eddie Haskel. He always spoke politely, too
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Wut da hell? You must be confusing me with @Wheels !
 
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