New Ruger African in .275 Rigby

ActionBob said:

Aren't all the new Hawkeyes CRF???? I don't think the Ruger American rifles are, But every Hawkeye I own is.

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The Ruger American rifles are entry level guns as far as I know, to compete with the low end
Winchesters and Remingtons. The Hawkeyes are "currently" Ruger's top of the line rifles. It stands to reason that the Americans would be push feed.

sierraone said:

The Ruger American rifles are entry level guns as far as I know, to compete with the low end
Winchesters and Remingtons. The Hawkeyes are "currently" Ruger's top of the line rifles. It stands to reason that the Americans would be push feed.

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You nailed it. The American rifles are push feed, and built to compete with the Remingtons and Winchesters, not the Hawkeyes.

Porker said:

So... Ruger uses the terminology “ controlled round feed extractor” .. very clever, that big claw looks the part... look at the bolt faces of the 275 lipseys and your hawkeye. .. also feed a round from both and stop the feed before the bolt head disappears, pull the bolt back and see if the case is attached to the bolt. If CRF it will be, your hawkeye like mine, will retreat with no brass attached to it, let us know!

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Ok, sorry but I think you are over analyzing this. But as long as you are playing with it, try holding the gun upside down and see if it will feed a round.

The round has to come free from the magazine before it pops up into the grasp of the claw. The round is actually controlled all the way, it is first controlled by the magazine and then controlled by the big claw extractor, once it comes free of the magazine feed lips. Exactly when in the process this happens depends some on the caliber/cartridge as each has it's own unique shape. And it seems to be slightly different based on whether it is the first or last out of the magazine, and right side or left side. But in mine, it feeds reliably and even upside down.

ActionBob said:

Ok, sorry but I think you are over analyzing this. But as long as you are playing with it, try holding the gun upside down and see if it will feed a round.

The round has to come free from the magazine before it pops up into the grasp of the claw. The round is actually controlled all the way, it is first controlled by the magazine and then controlled by the big claw extractor, once it comes free of the magazine feed lips. Exactly when in the process this happens depends some on the caliber/cartridge as each has it's own unique shape. And it seems to be slightly different based on whether it is the first or last out of the magazine, and right side or left side. But in mine, it feeds reliably and even upside down.

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Hi Bob, I understand exactly what you are saying and have heard the argument for many years. You should read this from Guns and Ammo a few years ago: http://www.gunsandammo.com/hunting/controlled-round-feed-vs-push-feed-rifles/

In my opinion the greater benefit of CRF actions is the blade ejector. As for feeding, sometimes push feed actions are the more reliable (less prone to jam when being fed because the cartridge has more freedom of movement).

sierraone said:

Hi Bob, I understand exactly what you are saying and have heard the argument for many years. You should read this from Guns and Ammo a few years ago: http://www.gunsandammo.com/hunting/controlled-round-feed-vs-push-feed-rifles/

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CTDolan said:

In my opinion the greater benefit of CRF actions is the blade ejector. As for feeding, sometimes push feed actions are the more reliable (less prone to jam when being fed because the cartridge has more freedom of movement).

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No arguments with any of this....

But to the point in response to @Porker The Ruger Hawkeye is a CRF. And to the contrary Ruger did make some Mark II's in a very different style of push feed. Still had the big claw extractor but worked as a push feed. Part of Ruger history I guess. There was a nice display at the Tulsa Arms Show a couple years ago, probably still put up there but I have not been able to attend lately. However I do own one, it is a Ruger Mark II Express in 270 Win.

Here’s an early M77, the kind you describe (and it does struggle to feed the last round in the magazine).


I had one myself, 30-06. I really liked that rifle and still scratch my head over letting it go.

CTDolan said:

Here’s an early M77, the kind you describe (and it does struggle to feed the last round in the magazine).

I had one myself, 30-06. I really liked that rifle and still scratch my head over letting it go.

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I have one of those in .458 Win Mag. The factory sights suck. I much prefer the sight on the RSM model.

Hitman, you have to be nice to me.. I’m new here! Sorry for late reply, I’m not always near civilisation.
To clarify and hopefully not detract from your excellent find...

Ruger has never marketed the Hawkeye as being CRF, only stating it has CRF extraction. Considerable work goes into making CRF 100% reliable. They state however it “should” feed CRF.

Reality is that most need work done to get to 100% reliability. Short action M77 Hawkeye’s are not CRF due to angle of entry. No scout/**NOT**PERMITTED** rifle is CRF due to detachable mag’s. Hawkeye 223’s even worse due to bolt diameter to case diameter.. need a smaller diameter bolt.. my 338WM feeds either the left or right cartridge in the stager box with less control on pick up... don’t have rifle with me so not sure which side.

If it’s not % reliable and boringly repeatable, no respected DG hunter will stake his life on it.. Ruger knows that and won’t market it that way. A firearm co. spending all those hours ensuring % reliable CRF will market their rifles as such! Winchester etc..

“Delayed CRF” ... “part time CRF” is not CRF. I know the early 1970’s Ruger in 7x57 was push feed, hence my question originally regarding this new Lipseys model Hitman, hope it brings you many a happy hunt

At the risk of sounding mean, since I "must" be nice; are you just trying to dazzle us with your knowledge of Ruger's historical marketing? Or is it something else?

Nothing man-made is 100% reliable, it will fail at some point, but when a man posts that his rifle will feed properly while being held upside down, that sounds like CRF to me, but then I'm a pistol guy.

Interestingly Craig Bodington in his book “American Hunting Rifles” showed that most push feeds work perfectly upside down. I know a gunsmith with a lot of dazzle who told me that to ensure the CRF starts with the cartridge being captured by the extractor and therefore is attached to the bolt face while moving into the chamber, he would test cycle a customers rifle at length with the muzzle pointed down. If the cartridge free falls into the chamber he has more work to do.

In all fairness to you, this debate should be a topic on its own and not form part of your excellent post on a very special rifle, I might invite some comments from the boys in a new thread.

Mmmm.......controlled and pushfeed discussions......sure i have seen that on here but could be wrong.....

I guess I'll put in my $0.02 here as a lover of Ruger rifles. Everything MkII and later is true CRF... in fact, I would go as far as today IMPROVED CRF! see if that ruffles a few feathers... Holding my Ruger side by side with my model 70, there is zero difference in how they function. the Ruger strips a round from the mag, slides it up under the claw as it goes into the chamber and then cams it out after firing.... exactly like a model 70 and exactly like a Mauser, M70, GMA...etc. I say advanced because they come already beveled and can be fed by just dropping a round on top of the follower and ramming it home. The extractor snapped over the rim no problem. I used to own a Ruger **NOT**PERMITTED** scout in .308 and it fed the same exact way. My Hawkeye African in .416 Ruger is a dead nuts reliable CRF. I can cycle it as fast as I can as hard as I can and I CAN'T make it fail. There is no way anyone can claim that they aren't CRF. nitpicking grammar minutiae not withstanding.

ChrisG said:

I guess I'll put in my $0.02 here as a lover of Ruger rifles. Everything MkII and later is true CRF... in fact, I would go as far as today IMPROVED CRF! see if that ruffles a few feathers... Holding my Ruger side by side with my model 70, there is zero difference in how they function. the Ruger strips a round from the mag, slides it up under the claw as it goes into the chamber and then cams it out after firing.... exactly like a model 70 and exactly like a Mauser, M70, GMA...etc. I say advanced because they come already beveled and can be fed by just dropping a round on top of the follower and ramming it home. The extractor snapped over the rim no problem. I used to own a Ruger **NOT**PERMITTED** scout in .308 and it fed the same exact way. My Hawkeye African in .416 Ruger is a dead nuts reliable CRF. I can cycle it as fast as I can as hard as I can and I CAN'T make it fail. There is no way anyone can claim that they aren't CRF. nitpicking grammar minutiae not withstanding.

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Amen!

Folks,

As of today Cabelas still has 10 of these rifles left, well 9 I guess My personal treasure is on its way to Rogers, MN. They have them mis-labeled on their website as a Hawkeye classic center fire rifle rather than the African model that they are. After a long conversation with both Ruger and Cabelas customer service departments I am reasonably sure that I am getting one of the original 250 rifle custom run in 257 Rigby.

I am stoked beyond words!

If any of you are still looking for this rifle it appears to still be available

Now, What to tell the wife...........

I got mine from the Rogers Cabelas. But in Arkansas. Yea they have them marked wrong. I am glade it’s living in my safe. Can’t wait to try it out. Did you mean 275 and not 257? Didn’t know if I missed one

Big Country said:

Now, What to tell the wife...........

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Easier to ask forgiveness than permission.

Big Country said:

Folks,

As of today Cabelas still has 10 of these rifles left, well 9 I guess My personal treasure is on its way to Rogers, MN. They have them mis-labeled on their website as a Hawkeye classic center fire rifle rather than the African model that they are. After a long conversation with both Ruger and Cabelas customer service departments I am reasonably sure that I am getting one of the original 250 rifle custom run in 257 Rigby.

I am stoked beyond words!

If any of you are still looking for this rifle it appears to still be available

Now, What to tell the wife...........

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It's easy, DON'T tell her, luckily most women couldn't distinguish between a Ruger African and a Marlin 336. This is a trait that I look for in a woman, one that reads the blue book at bed would be a poor choice in a spouse, unless of course she ran in circles that would end up with her making great deals on guns. I hooked my first wife up with a job at the gunstore so I could buy with an employee discount and it backfired on me. Live and learn

Ryanlo said:

I got mine from the Rogers Cabelas. But in Arkansas. Yea they have them marked wrong. I am glade it’s living in my safe. Can’t wait to try it out. Did you mean 275 and not 257? Didn’t know if I missed one

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Yes 275 Rigby, stupid auto correct! !


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ChrisG said:

I guess I'll put in my $0.02 here as a lover of Ruger rifles. Everything MkII and later is true CRF... in fact, I would go as far as today IMPROVED CRF! see if that ruffles a few feathers... Holding my Ruger side by side with my model 70, there is zero difference in how they function. the Ruger strips a round from the mag, slides it up under the claw as it goes into the chamber and then cams it out after firing.... exactly like a model 70 and exactly like a Mauser, M70, GMA...etc. I say advanced because they come already beveled and can be fed by just dropping a round on top of the follower and ramming it home. The extractor snapped over the rim no problem. I used to own a Ruger **NOT**PERMITTED** scout in .308 and it fed the same exact way. My Hawkeye African in .416 Ruger is a dead nuts reliable CRF. I can cycle it as fast as I can as hard as I can and I CAN'T make it fail. There is no way anyone can claim that they aren't CRF. nitpicking grammar minutiae not withstanding.

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Glad you have a gem of a rifle with that reliability Chris, love the Rugers as well ... i'll do some checks on mine ...maybe a video ... maybe ill eat some humble pie