Johannesburg Warning

Desperatezulu said:

On an unrelated but similar vein to all of our hunting visitors, it is really not necessary to identify yourself as a hunter by wearing your shiny new camos, Winchester/Weatherby/Remington branded cap & shirt, and luggage, guncases etc festooned with hunting stickers. Bear in mind what I've written above - if there are spotters, you do not want to be noticed by them. So save your hardcore hunting garb for the hunt. I know most AH members won't fall into this category but if you have family or friends who are a little naïve, please encourage them to tone it down.
I get that some hunters are travelling light without a vast selection of clothes but neutral olive/khaki clothes work just as well as camo and won't earmark you as a (wealthy) hunter in the airport.

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Desperatezulu,
Being a Jo'burg resident definitely gives your advice credibility here. I respect your opinions on the matter. However, I am also a native from a tourist-rich destination in the Ft. Lauderdale-Greater Miami area. And, having been in the outfitting business myself for may years, I can assure you that tourists stick out like a turd in a punch bowl regardless. Their mannerisms are just as obvious as the clothing an gear they are carrying. With that, I'm still an adamant believer that being recognized as a hunter in Africa is actually a positive, and being met by a PH with a sidearm on their hip is the best possible deterrent you can hope for in the short duration of your transition from the airport to camp.... The 'Eco-tourist' with their camera dangling around their neck and the GreenPeace sticker on their luggage is who I would be expect to be targeted as the easy mark...

In my dozens of trips transitioning in and out of OR Tambo, and many other African airports for that matter, I have worn my camo and my safari logo ball cap almost exclusively. Same for my wife...... Time and again, I have seen the hustlers solicit folks all around us and yet, avoid us like the plague. I'm not an intimidatingly large individual, and not repulsively ugly, so I double that is the reason.... I firmly believe that mannerisms in large part will dictate if you will be viewed as predator or prey. That, coupled with the common sense staples of not wearing expensive jewelry, avoid flashing cash, remaining aware, alert, and not acting timid will go a long way in keeping you from being an easy target.

firehuntfish said:

Desperatezulu,
Being a Jo'burg resident definitely gives your advice credibility here. I respect your opinions on the matter. However, I am also a native from a tourist-rich destination in the Ft. Lauderdale-Greater Miami area. And, having been in the outfitting business myself for may years, I can assure you that tourists stick out like a turd in a punch bowl regardless. Their mannerisms are just as obvious as the clothing an gear they are carrying. With that, I'm still an adamant believer that being recognized as a hunter in Africa is actually a positive, and being met by a PH with a sidearm on their hip is the best possible deterrent you can hope for in the short duration of your transition from the airport to camp.... The 'Eco-tourist' with their camera dangling around their neck and the GreenPeace sticker on their luggage is who I would be expect to be targeted as the easy mark...

In my dozens of trips transitioning in and out of OR Tambo, and many other African airports for that matter, I have worn my camo and my safari logo ball cap almost exclusively. Same for my wife...... Time and again, I have seen the hustlers solicit folks all around us and yet, avoid us like the plague. I'm not an intimidatingly large individual, and not repulsively ugly, so I double that is the reason.... I firmly believe that mannerisms in large part will dictate if you will be viewed as predator or prey. That, coupled with the common sense staples of not wearing expensive jewelry, avoid flashing cash, remaining aware, alert, and not acting timid will go a long way in keeping you from being an easy target.

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Couldn't agree more. I've been in O R Tambo more times than I can recall, but what I can recall is this. North Americans tend to carry cash either in a wallet or in a wad in a pocket. When they pay for something at the airport, or give a tip, they pull out the wallet and select a note, or they pull out the wad and peel one off. Try this sometime - you can actually feel the eyes on the cash.

Best bet is to have some small amount of rand in a pocket and if you ned money, use that. People will see you don't have much there and may well go on to a more likely mark.

firehuntfish said:

and not repulsively ugly

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Dan, I feel some on here might disagree. We've seen the Limcroma videos...

I am really enjoying reading the comments from all those who either live or have traveled to RSA through OR Tambo. Helps me get a little more prepared for the spring.

cagkt3 said:

Dan, I feel some on here might disagree. We've seen the Limcroma videos...

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Fair enough....

I was nervous about traveling through Tambo last year for the first time, especially since I had my 13 year old son with me.
It turned out that Tambo is no different than any other big airport and I thought it was actually easier navigate than when we made connections in Dubai.
That said, it was very comforting when we came out of the luggage area at Tambo and the firearms import service and PH were both standing there next to each other holding signs with my name on them.
As well, when we departed Tambo for the flight back home, our PH stayed with us the entire time, through check in and dropping off my rifle until we entered security.

I doesn't matter what you wear. When you leave the SAPS office carrying a gun case, they know you carry CASH for tips and trophy fees. They know that hunters carry way more cash than eco-tourists or families spending a week at Sun City. The next time you go to Afton, ask your driver about their high speed runs back to the "compound" with bandits giving chase.

Even if you don't leave OR Tambo, you still must contend with the crooked baggage handlers, police shopping for bribes, and average run-of-the mill thieves looking for a target. I have been to much worse and corrupt places than RSA, but have to say it is sad when people feel safer at airports in Zimbabwe and Zambia than they do in Joberg.

last time I went the police told me "don't take a cab with your rifle, take the hotel shuttle". Handgun hunting is worth looking into

firehuntfish said:

My point to the question being that any escort, PH or otherwise, who is open carrying a sidearm and likely carrying a rifle in the bakkie would be the strongest deterrent in my opinion.... PHs arriving to pick up clients at the airport with a .45 in plain sight on a hip holster is not going to be the prime target to follow from the airport to rob.

Without question, I take safety when traveling very seriously, and I always recommend that folks traveling to Africa learn the facts and do the same. Even here is the safest cities in North America, armored cars and banks with armed guards get robbed nearly everyday. RSA does not have the market cornered on these types of crimes. My concern is that this will get blown out of proportion much like the Ebola scare a couple of years back.

The US State Department website has a written warning for travelers on their RSA page that has been posted for years. Of course these warnings should be taken seriously, but they are not news... https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/country/south-africa.html

Common sense, and proper planning utilizing reputable outfits who are aware and prepared will go a long way towards safety when traveling through Jo'burg. For those who have upcoming safaris planned, it may not be a a bad idea to contact your outfitter to inquire how they are prepared to handle your safety, but I would not cancel a safari over it just yet...

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on my first hunt the PH didn't have a gun so I took mine out of the case in the parking lot loaded it and threw it in the cab. the next 2 trips my PH was packing high and tight and the rifle stayed in the back

this is a good thread with a lot of useful info. One thing is incorrect, however. The same old trite diatribe that "every city is dangerous.........." Of course. But Joburg is more dangerous. One of the most dangerous cities on Earth. It is not in the RSA hunting industry's best interest to acknowledge it, but it is true......Jo'burg is dangerous. Sure, you can get robbed in Boise, Idaho...........but you have to work at it. Don't be an innocent victim................treat Josy as it should be treated................with great care, respect and planning...........FWB

flatwater bill said:

this is a good thread with a lot of useful info. One thing is incorrect, however. The same old trite diatribe that "every city is dangerous.........." Of course. But Joburg is more dangerous. One of the most dangerous cities on Earth. It is not in the RSA hunting industry's best interest to acknowledge it, but it is true......Jo'burg is dangerous. Sure, you can get robbed in Boise, Idaho...........but you have to work at it. Don't be an innocent victim................treat Josy as it should be treated................with great care, respect and planning...........FWB

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For entertainment have a look at the stats to help shift perception.

https://www.timeslive.co.za/sunday-...rules-joburg-but-cape-town-is-murder-capital/


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate

Has anybody ever heard of any AH members having trouble at the airport?

I have read the cited article, and it does nothing to alter my recommendations. For one thing, saying that Josy is less dangerous than another RSA city ...say Mangaung, does not help us decide on absolute risk. Much more importantly, however, is how data is obtained and collated in Africa. If, for political correctness say, 96% of the population is Catholic and 4% is protestant, but most of the victims are protestant, we see skewed statistics. The total crime rate on the total population may be fairly low, but the risk to a protestant may be very very high. Couple this with under-reporting to keep, say, a police commissioner's job, or a tourist industry's revenue, and we see only a few of the reasons that Josy could be more dangerous for you or me than the raw data depicts. Various organizations rank cities as to their safety with various levels of accuracy. Business Insider ranks three RSA cities in the 50 most deadly. But as all crime doesn't involve murder, there are 5 RSA cities in the top 50 crime infested list on World Atlas. And these lists were more densely populated by RSA towns proir to the last two years of civil strife in Venauela and Brazil. A friend and Nissan employee who lives in Joburg showed me company literature that stated Joburg was their most dangerous location for employees worldwide. Joburg has topped the list of dangerous cities on Earth at least once in 20 years, and always makes top 50. But the overall risk is meaningless to me...................I want to know the risk to my group when we arrive on an international flight, with USA tags and luggage, and obvious gun cases, and the ubiquitous 10 grand for trophy fees. Our risk is sky high and climbing. We hunters are principally white tourists, and easily identified. Hunters make up a very small percentage of the Joburg population. If every hunter were robbed, the overall rate in such a big city would change little. Crime, even if violent, on a few percent of the populace is lost in the average rate on the populous.

Josy is dangerous for hunters, and getting moreso. It is not easy to "blend in" there. They know you have money and guns. They know very few of us have loaded handguns and are facile with their use. Ask the guest house shuttles if they've ever had to evade a robbery attempt. If they all say "no" forget what I've said. But that wont be the case........................good luck. keep hunting. take precautions...................................FWB

rpgoldsby said:

Has anybody ever heard of any AH members having trouble at the airport?

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Complaints about lost luggage and SAPS wanting cold drinks.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the luggage guys when you are loading your own van wanting to "help" and wanting a tip.

flatwater bill said:

.............. keep hunting. take precautions...................................FWB

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Which is actually the point.


I certainly get treated differently, but it is not a panacea.

Where ever you are, try not to look like a dumb target.

Firefish..................The eco tourist is not a prime target for several reasons. Firstly, he heads for the youth hostel, where no one has any money, has to pay no trophy fees ever so no wad of cash or expensive rifle, not many want a used and stolen camera, and the bandit is likely to contract a social disease from an eco tourist. No, they'll go after the rifles and trophy cash.........................FWB

firehuntfish said:

In my dozens of trips transitioning in and out of OR Tambo, and many other African airports for that matter, I have worn my camo and my safari logo ball cap almost exclusively. Same for my wife...... Time and again, I have seen the hustlers solicit folks all around us and yet, avoid us like the plague. I'm not an intimidatingly large individual, and not repulsively ugly, so I double that is the reason.... I firmly believe that mannerisms in large part will dictate if you will be viewed as predator or prey. That, coupled with the common sense staples of not wearing expensive jewelry, avoid flashing cash, remaining aware, alert, and not acting timid will go a long way in keeping you from being an easy target.

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FHF, I posted to try and help, not to argue - as the current teenagers say, "use it, don't use it". You refer to common sense and wearing your hunting gear proudly in the airport in the same paragraph... I guess we differ on common sense - I firmly believe that avoiding trouble is better than deterring it. The point that I am trying to get across is do not make yourself any more appealing as a target than you already are as a tourist. If that means not wearing your camo etc is that really such a hardship?
I'm delighted that you've never had issues and I hope that stays the case on all your future trips here. Not all our members are as seasoned travelers or as lucky perhaps..

firehuntfish said:

being met by a PH with a sidearm on their hip is the best possible deterrent you can hope for in the short duration of your transition from the airport to camp

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This is illegal in SA if visible - only concealed carry is permitted for private citizens. The best deterrent/prevention is to avoid being the 'mark'.

BRICKBURN said:

Where ever you are, try not to look like a dumb target.

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Exactly right!

flatwater bill said:

Firefish..................The eco tourist is not a prime target for several reasons. Firstly, he heads for the youth hostel, where no one has any money, has to pay no trophy fees ever so no wad of cash or expensive rifle, not many want a used and stolen camera, and the bandit is likely to contract a social disease from an eco tourist. No, they'll go after the rifles and trophy cash.........................FWB

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FWB,
I'm sure there are many of these types as you describe as well...However, the tourists I am referring to are the countless ones I notice every visit that are usually middle-aged to seniors who are nicely dressed, with lots of jewelry, and designer luggage in tow. They walk around looking confused and overwhelmed. They are not on their way to the hostel, they are on their way to a high-end photo safari lodge or the casinos... As for what profile is the easier mark, we all have our opinions... I will stick to my camo jacket or safari logo shirt & ball cap... It has worked for me to this point.

Desperatezulu said:

FHF, I posted to try and help, not to argue - as the current teenagers say, "use it, don't use it". You refer to common sense and wearing your hunting gear proudly in the airport in the same paragraph... I guess we differ on common sense - I firmly believe that avoiding trouble is better than deterring it. The point that I am trying to get across is do not make yourself any more appealing as a target than you already are as a tourist. If that means not wearing your camo etc is that really such a hardship?
I'm delighted that you've never had issues and I hope that stays the case on all your future trips here. Not all our members are as seasoned travelers or as lucky perhaps..


This is illegal in SA if visible - only concealed carry is permitted for private citizens. The best deterrent/prevention is to avoid being the 'mark'.

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Not trying to argue at all... We simply have different opinions based on our perspectives. You are surely entitled to yours... My point to gladly being recognized as a hunter is that I feel it is a deterrent rather than an invitation to would be robbers seeking the easiest marks. For anyone making the argument that being recognized as a hunter likely to be traveling with a firearm or being accompanied by a PH who is definitely going to have a firearm makes you the most inviting target, I simply disagree... To me, the common sense of it is to be regarded as the predator, not the prey.

On my visits thorough OR Tambo this past May, I think I wore shorts, flip-flops and a Limcroma ball cap returning and departing. The baggage hustlers who were converging on the carousel parted like I was Moses at the Red Sea when we walked past with my bow case and camo luggage in hand. It was almost the exact same scene when we were dropped off at the airport by our PH. All of the hustlers converging on the incoming vehicles don't even bother when the 4x4 bakkie with the roof rifle racks pulls in.... So you tell me?? Am I a mark or a deterrent being recognized as a hunter? Again, not being argumentative, just demonstrating my experiences through my perspective. Am I a seasoned traveler? Absolutely... Lucky to this point? I sincerely doubt it.

It may be the law in RSA not to open carry, but it is LOOSELY enforced, and I am glad of it... The law actually states that any sidearm must be completely covered and enclosed in a holster if worn on the hip. Maybe an untucked shirt covering the grip with the bottom of the holster exposed counts as completely covered? I can't speak to all outfitters, but all of the PHs that I know carry that way, and the bad guys know it... Great conversation regardless.... The readers can take it all in and decide what makes the most sense for them.

Lots of unsafe destination cities. You can look up the world list.

I got married in Jamaica, and took a walking tour of downtown Montego Bay. I felt very uncomfortable, and my senses were at DEFCON 1. Not a place I would go after dark.

Downtown Atlanta Georgia. Was walking fron my Hotel to a V.I.P event hosted by one of my suppliers at the International Woodworking show. Wearing a $2000 Armani suit, I attracted a small crowd of men of the African American persuasion, who followed me at a short distance.

Its dangerous everywhere. Just have to stay vigilant.