Cecil Redux: Xanda

The biologists here understand that the animals can be taken. It is part of the mortality stats for the critters.
It is not illegal here, nor have I heard of it being illegal anywhere.

Like the biologist in this scenario, they appreciate getting the expensive equipment returned.

Soon enough, the collar will be back on the next large male to start the recycling process once again.
 
Even though this week Lion was legally taken, I feel that outfitters should quit hunting the perimeter boundaries of these high profile areas.

The negative attention is not good.

It's the old give an inch problem though....

Remember, part of the reason that Oxford is there is to see the impact of hunting (which is a good thing). So quit hunting and you lose that good scientific data.

Then, they collar at a different area. A lion gets shot there, and quit hunting there? where does it end?

The only way to truly end negative hunting attention is to stop hunting, and that ain't gonna and shouldn't happen.
 
There is a reason these lions leave the parks and travel on their own. They've been beaten up and forced out of the area by a stronger lion.

This is part of the nature of being a lion. When male cubs get old enough to start sniffing after the females, the boss kicks them out. They then wander from territory to territory, usually linking up with other, similar situated lions. They will then form a bachelor group until one or another becomes old enough and strong enough to push an older lion out of his territory.

In a park, if there is sufficient water and food, all of the available territories will be taken - lions reproduce sort of like rabbits. After that, the young males will wander around until they find an area where they will not be bothered by another, stronger, male. That eventually takes them out of the park and into conflict with farmers and hunters.

If they were given a 'safe space' around the park, they would establish new territories there, and then the process would start over with the next generation, and they would kick younger males out, to find their way in the non-park areas, where there are no established prides. And so it goes.

The system of hunting areas surrounding park boundaries is much like a pressure relief valve, among other things. If you make the park bigger, you will still need the pressure relief valve. Rural folk don't want to live around lions, and who can blame them.

Those who are against lion hunting either know the facts, and see expanding 'no hunting' areas as the start of the end of hunting, or they don't know, in which cases they should not be expressing uniformed views. Or so I used to hope.

Taking these lions is not only fun, it is necessary and in fact one of the main points of the park/hunting concession system. Park authorities should have the guts to say so.
 
Subtle use of language to manipulate the reader: "Mr Loveridge said he hoped that there would soon be a 5km exclusion zone around the Hwange National Park so that hunters would no longer accidentally shoot collared lions that wonder outside the boundary of the Park.".

This lion was not accidentally shot, he was intentionally and appropriately shot. The sentence is written to give the impression that this was an accident when it was not and accident.
 
Even though this week Lion was legally taken, I feel that outfitters should quit hunting the perimeter boundaries of these high profile areas.

The negative attention is not good.

a lot of hunting areas border nat parks/game reserves in various african countries as they are buffer zones....some reserves are used for hunting eg selous with some of its blocks.........how do you draw the line if you are operating in these areas....you would end up losing a large section of your area......

hunting_zambia-gif.59494
hunting_tanzania.gif
 
Thats true, but those parks dont get the attention that Hwange does. Thanka to the Cecil debacle.

The Lions around those other parks dont have names.
 
I think the spell checker on my phone is possessed
 
Thats true, but those parks dont get the attention that Hwange does. Thanka to the Cecil debacle.

The Lions around those other parks dont have names.

Are you sure they don't have names? What if they do? Willing to stop hunting there too?

Hwange isn't the only place in Africa that has researchers who have named lions.

I get your point, but there are other ways to combat the antis other than giving ground based on who names lions.

Keep fighting with facts. Point out like Hank did the benefits of hunting the boundry areas and why it's important. Let people know when lies are being told and facts twisted.

This lion already has a different and more subtle tone. Perhaps the main stream media is a little afraid to use "fake news" capital on something they truly could not care less about.
 
I wouldnt hunt any Lion that has been named, or has a collar. Its not my perception of wild Lion hunting.
 
My thoughts:

Is a lion with a collar any less likely to eat me? I don't think so.
Does the animal that was darted feel any different after being collared - meaning does it all of a sudden behave differently? Again, I don't think so.

@Brent in Az - I definitely get where you are coming from. It certainly would change the experience in some regard. I agree with @Royal27 and others - it wouldn't stop me, and I don't think staying away from Hwange is the answer. It will go from one NP to another. The anti's will never see eye to eye with hunters, or even respectfully agree to disagree.

The non-hunting undecided folks are the ones we need to inform. We need more info about the behavior of lion prides in the parks, and why the lions leave. And show them how true conservationism, not preservationist ideology, is the way to save animals. Give them value = protection from poaching, habitat loss, you know...the things that are really hurting the populations.
 
I wouldnt hunt any Lion that has been named, or has a collar. Its not my perception of wild Lion hunting.

That's your right and I support and respect that right.

Just like I support and respect the right of those to conduct a legal hunt near a park border. A right that I see no reason to change, and especially not because someone collared and named an animal.
 
I have an old school mentality when it comes to hunting, and certain other things. "Walk softly, but carry a big stick".

We shouldn't give the anti's any ground, but we shouldn't give them any fuel for the fire.

If someone shoots a Lion in the Rungwa, next to Ruaha National park, you hardly hear anyone bat an eyebrow. Shoot a well known Lion named Cecil next to Hwange, and all hell breaks loose on the internet.

I just feel that a certain amount of discretion should be observed. Fly under the radar, so to speak.
 
Not sure what went down here, but I presume the collar was not visible. If a collar is seen on any animal it should NOT be shot!!
The storm approaches....
Nice sentiment, but go ahead and pay $40k to$60K for a hunt, have a MATURE male lion walk in front of you at 50 yds, the sticks come up, and you glimpse what MAY be a collar on the second to last day of the hunt. Then you can say that we shouldn't shoot a collared lion. Even the researchers say that shooting a collared lion is part of the research. I applaud your own opinion, but stop short of telling others what they should do that is Legal.
 
Xanda, Cecil son shot

Looks like the Sh*t Storm is about to start back up.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...nda-killed-trophy-hunter-nearhwange-national/

One of Cecil the Lion’s cubs has been shot dead by a big game trophy hunter in Zimbabwe, just two years after his father was killed in similar circumstances.

The six-year-old lion named Xanda, who was in his prime, was killed just outside the Hwange National Park in north west Zimbabwe, not far from where Cecil was killed in 2015.

His death was discovered because Xanda was wearing an an electronic collar, fitted by researchers monitoring his movements in the area.

When the Zimbabwean professional hunter on the shoot, Richard Cooke from RC Safaris, discovered the dead lion had a collar, he handed it back to the researchers.

Andrew Loveridge from the Department of Zoology at Oxford University, which has a team supplying and fixing collars which monitor the lions in the Hwange National Park, said: "I fitted it last October. It was monitored almost daily and we were aware that Xanda and his pride was spending a lot of time out of the park in the last six months, but there is not much we can do about that.

TELEMMGLPICT000135259685_1-large_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqZgEkZX3M936N5BQK4Va8RWtT0gK_6EfZT336f62EI5U.jpeg

Xanda the Lion, son of Cecil CREDIT: PICASA
“Richard Cooke is one of the 'good' guys. He is ethical and he returned the collar and communicated what had happened. His hunt was legal and Xanda was over 6 years old so it is all within the stipulated regulations.”


Mr Loveridge said he hoped that there would soon be a 5km exclusion zone around the Hwange National Park so that hunters would no longer accidentally shoot collared lions that wonder outside the boundary of the Park.

Cecil the Lion had wandered outside of the Park to the area of his birth, close to the boundary.

Mr Cooke, a well known professional hunter who lives in Victoria Falls, did not answer his phones on Thursday and has not yet revealed the name of his client. But most lion shooters are from the US, UK, Germany or South Africa.

Archive video of Cecil the Lion and his pride

01:21

The client may have paid about £40 000 for the shoot and for Xanda’s head to be cured and mounted and sent to him wherever he lives.

Cecil the Lion's death on July 1, 2015, caused global outrage and threw a spotlight on trophy hunting in Africa.

The Telegraph broke the news that Walter James Palmer, a 55-year-old dentist from Minnesota, US, was discovered to have paid US$65,000 (about £50,000 in today's exchange rate) to shoot and kill the much-loved lion with a bow and arrow.

He was forced to abandon his practice in suburban Minneapolis for weeks amid an international outcry over his actions.

Who is Walter Palmer? What we know about Cecil the lion's killer

02:30

Conservation groups in Zimbabwe and around the world reacted angrily too - partly because the Cecil was known to visitors and seemingly enjoyed human contact, and partly because of the way in which he was killed.


The 13-year-old big cat and shot at night near his birth place, close to the national park. He didn't die immediately and was tracked down the following day and finished off.

His head was curing in Bulawayo in preparation to be dried and mounted when police seized it. Charges against Dr Palmer were later withdrawn.

Following the incident, many US hunters cancelled trips to Zimbabwe as the massive level of negative media coverage dominated headlines for weeks.

However, some have begun returning to Zimbabwe as the US ban on the importation of trophies has been lifted.

More then 70 per cent of funds to safeguard Zimbabwe’s wildlife and catch poachers comes from revenue from professional hunters.

Here we go again. I would have thought that keeping away from what will become bad publicity would have been the way to go.
 
ZPHGA Statement

Zimbabwe Professional Hunters and Guides Association (ZPHGA) Mukuvisi Woodlands
Hillside Rd / Glenara Ave South
Harare

Tel : +263 4 779792
21 July 2017
ZPHGA Statement

On the 30th of June 2017, a lion known by operators in Hwange National Park as “Xanda” was shot during a safari conducted by a licenced professional hunter and member of ZPHGA.
Richard Cooke is an ethical, respected member of our Association. Mr Cooke was contracted by Zimbabwe Forestry Commission as a professional hunter, in their area. The hunt was legal, with all paperwork and regulations being in order and followed in accordance with the Zimbabwe hunting laws.

These are the facts :
On the 29th of June, a Lion track was found, 12km into the Forestry concession.
On the 30th of June, the Lion was shot dead 2,5km from the Park.
Before entertaining the thought of hunting this cat, and knowing the history of this area, both the Senior Ranger for ZNPWMA in the area, and the field representative for Hwange’s lion research project were contacted by the professional hunter. Both confirmed that the lion, previously with a pride in the park, had been ousted by a coalition and had taken up residence in the adjacent forestry concession for the past 6 months. They furthermore confirmed that the lion in question did not have any dependant cubs and was of a legal age for harvesting under new regulations adopted by ZNPWMA to comply with USFW guidelines for sustainable utilization ( Less than 2.5% of the 2 000 lions (2016 survey) resident in Zimbabwe were harvested in 2016 under this new programme).
It is not illegal to hunt a collared animal in Zimbabwe. The collaring of lion, and various other species, in and around Zimbabwe’s national parks and other wildlife refuges, is for research purposes – not for direct protection. The dynamics of big cats is still under research and includes their ranging into hunting areas and further into populated communal areas. The professional hunter was asked to return the lion’s collar to Hwange’s lion researchers in working order, which after harvesting him, he duly did.

Ngamo/Sikumi is 420 000 acres of unfenced wilderness area under the authority of the government parastatal : The Forestry Commission of Zimbabwe. This area is allocated one male lion on quota per year, which is monitored by ZNPWMA.

The motto of our Association is "ethics are everything". Our professional hunters and guides are the most stringently examined in the world. Our members are all ambassadors of wildlife conservation, both consumptive and non- consumptive.

James Rosenfels ZPHGA Chairman 2017


ZPHGA 2017 – “ Education is key”
 

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I wouldnt hunt any Lion that has been named, or has a collar. Its not my perception of wild Lion hunting.
I think all mama lions name their children. Who's going to prove otherwise?
 
ZPHGA Statement
Couldn't have said it better myself . . . oh, I think I did say it myself. This lion was walking around alone. Because he had been kicked out of this home territory - "ousted by a coalition" sounds much better, but means the same thing. If he hadn't been shot, what do people think he would have done? Gone back home to the park? He had no home to go to. He was going to stay where he could live without being beaten up by other lions. and taking whatever food was in the area - likely food belonging to someone (or someone!).

By not addressing the realities of nature and the nature of lions, we create these issues. And will go on creating them, until we recognize that since man began hunting and gathering, man has had an obligation to manage wild animal populations. If parks won't manage their own lion populations, well, I for one will volunteer to do it for them.
 
You sum it up well...if I see a collared animal, I immediately think of some research/programme etc. Its almost like a "tame "animal being monitored and not a free wild animal. I get the research and control side of it... they put collars on "some "animals for a reason... then don't shoot it, unless directed/ requested to do so ( my opinion).
I am going to do some reading up on this issue, just to get my mind clear on this!

Collars are not necessarily visible on a maned lion. There is a video of Cecil moving around and the collar is not visible. Not sure on this lion, but a decent chance it is not visible.

Even though this week Lion was legally taken, I feel that outfitters should quit hunting the perimeter boundaries of these high profile areas.

The negative attention is not good.

Loveridge wants a 5k border outside the park. Right now the highest and best use for the areas bordering Hwange is hunting. If a 5k protected area is put in then the owners, whether private or RDC's are going to find a new highest and best use for their property. Farms and livestock are going right up against the park's boundaries. Farms will be raided, livestock killed. The animals that wonder outside the park will be killed indiscriminately and it will be worse for the wildlife of Hwange.


The Lions around those other parks dont have names.

The Oxford researchers have given Hwange lion's names. Occasionally the people that run tours in that particular area of the park will use the name, but most people have no clue if a lion has a name.

Where researchers are around, lions with strong identifying marks will have a name used among the researchers as an identifying tool. Just because they use a name doesn't mean the lions aren't wild. This is true of other parks besides Hwange.


When the Cecil story broke, I heard the following story come out of Zimbabwe. People in the parks department and over parks in Harare were calling the parks department in Hwange to ask why Hwange hadn't told them about this famous lion called Cecil before he was shot. The head of Parks at Hwange had no clue what they were talking about and asked his people why they hadn't told him there was a famous lion in Hwange. His employees didn't know there was a famous lion in Hwange named Cecil either. In other words, Cecil wasn't even known to the senior parks people in Hwange by name. He was known by name by the Oxford study group and a couple of tourist lodges in the area of Cecil's territory. In other words, he really wasn't famous until the media got hold of the story.

What I enjoy most about the naming of Cecil, is it is a slap in the face to Mugabe. The Oxford study group names a lion after the founder of Rhodesia, who ironically has given probably the most famous scholarship in the world to Oxford to disburse. For a couple of months, Mugabe has to live with the Rhodes legacy once again.:)



This lion was born wild. Had territory in a border area. Was hunted ethically as long as he was not with the pride and cubs when he was shot. This is conservation at it's best.
 
A new way to scout.
Jump on the mobile and call the local researcher and ask that the file on your quarry be forwarded for review.
It's great the Oxford researchers got so much new funding.
 

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