Slugs for Bear

we regularly take bears 400 to 600 pounds.

????????
a certain insight or a valuation?
Where do you hunt so big bears ?

In a German hunting forum is a (D/CA) gamewarden who has to shoot lot of bears every year (grizz and bb's),hurt in Banff NP by the Railways,when the waggons loosing wheet and corn.

Nearby,it seems Canadian Railway is the greatest bear killer there.

He takes a pumpgun 12/76 and 00 buckshot.
When you want his link - adress,I can try it.
Foxi
 
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Where do you hunt so big bears ?
Hi Foxi, I cant speak for other areas but I have lived & hunted on Vancouver Island on the west coast of Canada for close to 40 years. Lots & lots of Black bears here.
This is a comment for the British Columbia Big game record book on Black Bears.
"Size: Male Black Bears range 60–300 kg (130–660 lbs), and up to 7 ft long (nose to ‘tail’). Female Black Bears range 40–180 kg (90–400 lbs) with the largest black bear on record was 400kg, or 880 lbs"

Although I don't hunt them any more (I used to take two each spring for meat) they do get big for a few reasons. Mild short winters (a unusual condition in Canada) so the bears don't lose as much mass each winter. Prime habitat , lots & lots of food, salmon , oysters , mussels, from beaches & mountains full of wild black berries & grasses. They don't want for much. My personal best was about 225 kg ( 500lbs) most I took were in the 130~160kg range (300~350lbs) around Port Alice ,Northern VI.

Your right about the railway killing game BTW, but its better than it used to be. The problem was the long grain trains from Alberta to the Coastal Port in Vancouver BC, about 1200 km. The rail cars would leak grain out thru the bottom. So there would be grain down the center of the track, pretty attractive for game. As a result lots of game ( moose, grizzly, black bear, Elk, and others would get killed on the the track each year as they fed. (and of course the dead game on the track attracted other game as well) Eventually residents , hunters , & wildlife management folks put pressure on the rail companies to clean up their act. The new rail cars drop much less grain / food. As a result much fewer animals are killed each year than previously. Its still not perfect ( game still gets hit by trains) but its much less than it was. A small success story!

Apologize if a bit off topic & long winded.:A Bonk:

Pat
 
I got a close to 400 lb spring black bear in southeast Alaska. Similar climate to Vancouver Island. Lately, I've been reading about huge black bear coming out of North Carolina - 600+ lbs. Moderate climate and the feed in the farmers fields I believe. But, they are extremely expensive - one search I did found prices pushing $10,000. I would rather the experience of SE Alaska or Vancouver Island for less money than NC.
 
I would rather the experience of SE Alaska or Vancouver Island

You might want to read / contact kfet87& Jfet about their Black Bear experience hunting on Vancouver Island on AH
British Columbia That’s My Truck Going On A Bear Hunt

cheers
Pat
 
@BC.Pat Thanks. I hunted out of Juneau back in 2004 and got a cinnamon 7'4" square. Not sure I could ever top that experience. I went with Keegan McCarthy and the next year Ann and I did a cruise with he and his wife Chelsea. Nothing compared to the boats they have now!

http://www.coastalalaskaadventures.com/
 
Here is a prime example of why there are much better projectiles than foster slugs for use on animals larger than a couple hundred pounds:

It shows that the slug only penetrates 12 1/4" of pure gelatin and the disruption isn't all that breathtaking either. I know there are a lot of different slugs out there, brennekes being one of the better, but even the best have an abyssmal sectional density and foster slugs (1 oz) have the sectional density of a sideways teacup. I used to hunt at a camp in Allegany Couonty NY where it was shotgun only and I took a number of deer with both 20 and 12 gauge foster slugs... I can't remember ever having an exit, even on smallish deer. If you HAVE to use a slug, which it sounds like you do... Handloading a solid, hardened slug like those available from dixie, like another post mentioned are probably your best bet. Good luck!
 
This subject is quite worth revisiting from time to time so, the following is my two pennies worth:

Here in Alaska, The Anchorage Police Department, as well as the Alaska State Troopers / Fish & Wildlife Dept. included, not to mention various smaller Police Departments within Alaska (Fairbanks, Palmer, Juneau, Wasilla and so-forth) have periodically had to shoot grizzly, moose and black bears, not all that uncommonly, over the decades.

Also of interest in regards to the shotgun slug penetration question is the fact that, many of the above agencies have had to shoot through car windshields and car doors, along with various and sundry makeshift barricades, such as furniture piled up and such likes as well.

The end result of these shotgun slug shootings are as follows:

As others have already said here, the old fashioned "Foster" style slugs are too soft and not possessed of the all important sectional density necessary to penetrate well.

This should not be surprising since they were designed primarily for hunting white tail deer at close range.

Others here have mentioned the Brenneke shotgun slugs.

Back in my time, we used the older design Brenneke with the wad fastened to the bottom of the projectile and in 2 & 3/4" at that.

They worked well enough as far as I ever heard tell but, all I personally ever shot with them were targets and they went right through them - LOL.

A chap I formerly worked with (Ed Marsters), bagged a job with the state as a firearms trainer, after he retired from his city job here.

Ed tells me that the best of the best in 12 gauge for penetration these days, is the Brenneke 3" magnum Black Gold slug, live factory ammunition.

Another thing that I found interesting on the shotgun slug subject was that, I test fired a semi-auto 10 gauge shotgun (Ithaca) on an automobile, with slugs and buckshot both.

The buckshot was not very impressive but the 2 ounce slugs / 3.5" magnums, not only shot through the car doors with ease but, they also punched very perfect looking round holes through the wheels, steel rims, brake drums and all !

Evidently the two oz. mass, even though of the otherwise feeble Foster design, had enough momentum to behave entirely different than the same 1 oz. 12 gauge version.

Well, my fingers are getting tired so, it must be time for beer.

Out.
Macmaster worked for Doyon Security at Valdez
His brother worked for the state as the highway commissioner
Now I don’t know what they do
Deneli Universal Service Pipeline now only issues soft slugs made by Fed. We use to have Brennke Slugs but the zero was different than the Fed Slugs so they withdrew the Brenneke.
 
Velo Dog,
every hunter here is growing up with Brennecke slugs .
Brennecke makes a lot of authority ammunition (Special Forces Slugs,Anti Terror Slugs and so ). We,normal persons, don't get that stuff in Germany.
But I can imagine, you in USA ,this is no problem for a hunter to get that.
Brennecke.jpg

Keep on hunting
Foxi
 
Remington Marine magnum. They make a barrel that has rifle sights but it is a smooth bore. Use the Brennecke slugs. 600 grain at 1500 FPS. Rifled barrel would give you better accuracy but like you said you will be using it for back up or follow up. Guys use them up here for grizzly protection.
 
I think I'd still personally want a .375 h&h. Kicks less, penetrates deeper and causes more damage... The only downside is it weighs 9.5 lbs not 7.5 lbs
 
I think I'd still personally want a .375 h&h. Kicks less, penetrates deeper and causes more damage... The only downside is it weighs 9.5 lbs not 7.5 lbs

Hi ChrisG,

I’m +1 with you on preferring the .375 when wandering around in grizzly habitat.
I suppose it might even kick less than some of today’s increased power shotgun slugs.
However I’m a geezer and the original 2 & 3/4” slug versions of my youthful days did not seem as sharp / harsh as my original Ruger single shot .375 or my 2nd .375 which was a #5 taper rebarreled (not heavy profile) Model 700 ADL Remington.
Both of those kicked like satan.
Since then I’ve only had .375’s in Mauser of one type or another as well as one double in that most excellent caliber.

Anyway, the .375 has such an enviable history in terminating large grouchy bears here that it seems almost silly to choose anything else for the task.
It’s sort of like trying to re-invent the wheel.
I hear people moan about the belted cartridge and about wanting a short action and about not headspacing on the shoulder.
However, since I’ve never noticed such issues with any of the half dozen or more .375 H&H caliber rifles I’ve owned, I figure those issues are mostly hypothetical, if not imaginary.

Regards,
Velo Dog.
 
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Hi ChrisG,

I’m +1 with you on preferring the .375 when wandering around in grizzly habitat.
I suppose it might even kick less than some of today’s increased power shotgun slugs.
However I’m a geezer and the original 2 & 3/4” slug versions of my youthful days did not seem as sharp / harsh as my original Ruger single shot .375 or my 2nd .375 which was a #5 taper rebarreled (not heavy profile) Model 700 ADL Remington.
Both of those kicked like satan.
Since then I’ve only had .375’s in Mauser of one type or another as well as one double in that most excellent caliber.

Anyway, the .375 has such an enviable history in terminating large grouchy bears here that it seems almost silly to choose anything else for the task.
It’s sort of like trying to re-invent the wheel.
I hear people moan about the belted cartridge and about wanting a short action and about not headspacing on the shoulder.
However, since I’ve never noticed such issues with any of the half dozen or more .375 H&H caliber rifles I’ve owned, I figure those issues are mostly hypothetical, if not imaginary.

There is always someone trying to find a better .375 HH....Oh well.
By the way how did you and the better half survive the earthquake?

Regards,
Velo Dog.
 
Slugs—federal 3” 1 1/4 oz at advertised 1500 FPS are nasty stuff. Have to use them in my hunting area. Killed many, many deer and two bears with them. The bears weighed less then 250 # ea, but got a thru and thru on both and neither went more then 10 yds. Have seen some spectacular kills on deer. Only slug better was a slug by Remington called the Buckhammer.
They were 1 3/8 oz at 1600 FPS and were harder the the the Feds.
I shoot a 18 “ barrel 870 with sights and at 75 yds it will group 3-4 “.
Slugs are deadly and impressive!!!!!!
 
Calhoun........I am only going to be using this shotgun for follow up on wounded bears in very heavy cover. I am not hunting with it, just finishing the job.

Believe me I have plenty of rifles much more suitable for this, but this is not up to me. It is a law that was passed in a specific area. With no options other than to comply, I will be buying an 870 pump specifically for this....probably a short rifled barrel, iron sights and synthetic stock.

Was hoping someone on here may have some info that would help. I have used the slugs you talk about in the past with smooth bores, but have ZERO experience with the newest sabotted rounds/wonder rounds etc. Recoil is absolutely not a concern.
Slugs are very popular in eastern NC where the bears can top 750 pounds. 2 3/4 Remington foster slugs.
 
I would highly recommend a 12 bore Holland and Holland Paradox Ball-and-Shot-gun if price is no object. It shoots 740 grain conical bullets and suitable for any soft skinned Game. The Dallas gun room of Holland and Holland has one for sale.
 
Hi, everyone. Brenneke slugs have long been the standard by which all others are measured. I have two others you might be interested in one from a small company and the other from a big manufacturer. Federal's line for the .458 Win. Mag. includes a couple of 500 grain controlled expansion type bullets, and a 500 grain solid. All of these are loaded to a MV of 2,090 fps and a ME of 4,850 ft. lbs. If you take note below the Lightfield Commander IDS Plus 3-1/2″ 12 ga slug load steps all over the heels of the .458 Win. Mag. firing a controlled expansion slug of 600 grains so it is not something to ignore if you can handle it. Even the 3" is a formidable round and easier on recoil. The Dixie IXL-DGS (Dangerous Game Slug) is a close range 870 grain .73 caliber non-expanding thumper.

1st. is from Lightfield Ammo. They make both a Commander IDS Plus 3″ 12 ga. and a Commander IDS Plus 3-1/2″ 12 ga. round.

The Commander IDS Plus 3″ 12 ga The Lightfield IDS Commander Plus was designed as a high velocity Sabot Slug for use in modern rifled barrel and smooth bore shotguns. Its 1 3/8 oz (600 grain) at 1700 FPS, 73 caliber slug producing 3850 ft/lbs at the barrel and 1324 ft/lbs @ 150 yards. TKO= 107!! The patented IDS design incorporates an impact-discarding Sabot that aids stability in the wind and produces a controlled expansion slug for deeper penetration for larger big game animals.

Commander IDS Plus 3-1/2″ 12 ga the difference between it and the 3" above is it produces 1890 FPS and 4759 ft/lbs of energy at the barre firing the same 600grain sabot.

Dixie Slugs makes the IXL-DGS (Dangerous Game Slug) which is .730" and weighs 870 grs. and leaves a 20" barrel at 1200FPS. This is similar to the old black powder 2 bore elephant rounds according to my understanding. It ix not meant for longer ranges but as a stopping round at 25 yards and under.
 
I think I'd still personally want a .375 h&h. Kicks less, penetrates deeper and causes more damage... The only downside is it weighs 9.5 lbs not 7.5 lbs

If you are in Grizzly or Brown Bear country I also carried a .375 H&H. I am not advocating hunting either Grizzly or Brown Bear with the heaviest loaded 12 gauge slugs however it can be an around the house or around the camp gun. It is diffidently a great choice for those that hunt big black bears in thick cover and over bait in my humble opinion. My designated slug gun with bull barrel weighs 11lbs empty.
 

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