Resignation PHASA President

@billc , why do you say the whole PHASA bs? It was voted on by all the members.....
 
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I am still waiting for someone to explain the difference between captive bred buffalo (or sable, or white tail deer or elk) hunting and captive bred lion hunting.

Some people seem to be of the opinion that once the issue of captive bred lion hunting goes away, those who are against it will be satisfied and will go home quietly to resume their lives, leaving hunters alone forever more.

I am not one of those.

Sorry to contribute to the 12 pages.

Hi Hank2211, billc and others,

I do not care for the concept of shooting hand-fed / animals that have become used to close human contact, lions or deer or kudu, etc.
It appears to me that the anti-hunter's "home" seems to be in the street, brandishing a sign, with lies and hateful slogans printed on it.
And so, I do agree with Hank2211's thought that the anti-hunter will not go quietly home (or go quietly anywhere for that matter.)
Anti-Hunters will never be satisfied, ever.
They are haters and haters love to hate.

I am an avid hunter / gun collector who, believes that lately, we have evolved into being our own worst enemy, in regards to the "Public Relations Arena".
If animals are born into the bush, on a large enough hunting concession to give them a reasonable chance of dying from old age, fence or no fence, I quietly do not care what anyone thinks of me hunting such critters.
If however, some animal is hand-fed / pen raised, genetically engineered specifically for the tendency to have: a black mane, freak antlers, "golden gemsbok", "golden wildebeest", (and the list goes on) and put on a concession set up such that it cannot possibly evade being located by the people who are hunting there for a week or two, I do not blame "normal" people from being disgusted.

One of my friends here in Alaska had "won a safari" at one of these SCI Banquets, for his first African experience.
It turned out to be on a fairly small plot of ground, with a high fence.
At one stage, early in the "hunt", a cattle truck arrived and the PH said to my friend, "Let's go pick out your eland to hunt tomorrow".
To this day, he is so soured by that nonsense that, he will only book with the guarantee that he will only be hunting many thousands of hectares of land with no game fence.

My parting shot as it were, is that I do not feel there should be laws against the things I described above as a very real PR problem, for the entire world wide hunting community.
But, I do feel we should not participate in such things, as a show of good sportsmanship to the millions of non-hunters who will likely applaud us for phasing-out these "canned hunts".
If it doesn't pay, it doesn't stay.

I will stand by for the inevitable fiery darts,
Velo Dog.
 
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@billc , are you telling us you know more about hunting in SA than the actual outfitters/ph's?
 
@billc , why do you say the whole PHASA bs? It was voted on by all the members.....

I say that because they did the vote. Yes the members voted and what did it stop really is my question. There is still raised lions being hunted? They got taken to court and lost? They helped put the nail in the coffin on all lion hunting as far as I am concerned. The same guys in Phasa will go hunt a raised kudu or buff but gave in on what they thought would make them look good is all I am saying. That is how I see it and others may think other wise and are free to do so.
 
@billc do you have proof about the raised kudu/buffalo or is that speculation?
 
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@billc , are you telling us you know more about hunting in SA than the actual outfitters/ph's?

Simon were did I say that. You telling me all outfitters wanted the lion hunts stopped. You like phasa and good for you I don't plan and simple. They have no power other then what they pretend to have over there members. Oh that right they can stop you from doing the sci show.

For the record I know maybe a little more then you think about hunting in SA. I look at all problems or points from the hunters side and the outfitters side for the most part. I don't just show up and hunt and have researched a lot of info on more then just hunting in SA.
 
@billc do you have proof about the raised kudu/buffalo or is that speculation?


Other then the fact some of the guys who voted to stop it have ads for buff on ranches or better yet a few at the shows this year offered hunts for buff and one even who said he was vote to stop the lions was willing to do a hunt as long as is was not known by anyone else.
 
@billc , why don't you like PHASA?

Well why not post this outfitters name here? That will get Phasa's attention.
 
Slippery slope here folks. This forum is largely game farm hunting in rsa and namibia. Not saying that is bad, but for everyone to get up in arms about various hunting methods being acceptable or unacceptable can divide us as a group rather quickly.
 
Stan is a person who stood for the ethical hunting, no hidden agendas. It's a shame he has stood down, he was responding to what the members voted.
 
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@billc , why don't you like PHASA?

Well why not post this outfitters name here? That will get Phasa's attention.

I just feel they screwed hunters on the lion part and they never do anything to the members they catch half the time. Like a juan pace for starters. I feel it is just a good old boys club for the most part. I would never say they do no good but like any group it needs a good house cleaning to make it right again to me.

I would need to look up the guys name and see if I have his flyer yet. I talk to so many and don't remember all the names.

Please simon don't make me get this thread to 12 pages by tonight. LOL ;)
 
Stan is a person who stood for the ethical hunting, no hidden agendas. It's ahsame he has stood down, he was responding to what the members voted.

Simon he could be a great guy but a small group decide something for all hunters and I don't think any one group should be able to do that. Tell me what good came from the vote. I am sure a few of the really bad places that were doing hunts went away. That is good plus it made guys clean up there act but in the end the divide it caused only hurt all lions and hunting.
 
@billc unfortunately there are constitutional rights in SA, it's not so easy for PHASA to just expel a person. From another thread, Pieter said....." HE IS A MEMBER OF PHASA, WITH GOOD STANDING TERMS" how do represent an outfit that you totally disagree with on AH?

It wasn't a small group who decided, it was voted on the AGM!
 
I know he is a member of phasa and that is his call. All because I don't like it does not mean I hate phasa members. See I can not like something but still so respect to a person. Some people may not like things like raised lion and take there cheap shots and say it is not a hunt and show no respect to that hunters rights. Because I don't like something does not mean others should not.
 
And it was a small group when you compare it to all the hunters in the world was my point. I said no group should have that much say on anything. That goes for sci , dsc. phasa and all the rest.
 
Then respect the decisions that are made by PHASA.

Wrong Bill. It's just like alot of agm's people don't attend, but have the most to say afterwards.
 
Then respect the decisions that are made by PHASA.

Wrong Bill. It's just like alot of agm's people don't attend, but have the most to say afterwards.

Simon you can respect what they did and believe it was the right thing to do. I am not a member and do not need to like it or hate as it does nothing to me. Because some one has there say does not mean I can not still think it is wrong. They made no law I need to follow so it has nothing for me to respect. If the SA Game/fish make it a law then I will need to respect that law till then it is just another group having there say that goes no place.

I do agree about guys not voting and then being mad afterwards but that is not a new problem.
 
Red leg it is simple as this your ethics are yours and mine are mine. Everyone has there own ethics but telling others a raised lion it is not a hunt is just bs. When you decide to put shot and not hunt your just bashing on another hunter. Instead of maybe just saying I would not do a hunt like that for these reason.

This has been gone over a number of times but if you believe hating on other hunters for doing a hunt you don't like is helping us as a group your kidding yourself is my point.

We as a group have taken a beating since the whole phasa raised lion bs. The anti's did not go away because laws or rules were changed but just moved on to the next animals they think they can win on. What did the fighting get us as a group. No raised lion hunted that can be imported but still being hunted and no importing of but a few lions in to the states. So who did we help as we fought other hunter but the anti's and now lions just get killed for no reason. But yes all you guys who don't like it got there way and watched it blow up in your face.

A few here, including myself, voiced a personal view on the subject of captive bred hunting. But I don't see where anyone dropped criticism at your feet or anyone else with an opposing view. I also don't see where anyone here claims to have campaigned against captive bred hunting.

In response you mention everyone having a right to their own ethics and yet you then go on to seemingly scold those who would dare hold a view contrary to your own. That intolerance or inability to accept the personal view of others seems quite hypocritical to me.
 
I am still waiting for someone to explain the difference between captive bred buffalo (or sable, or white tail deer or elk) hunting and captive bred lion hunting.

Some people seem to be of the opinion that once the issue of captive bred lion hunting goes away, those who are against it will be satisfied and will go home quietly to resume their lives, leaving hunters alone forever more.

I am not one of those.

Sorry to contribute to the 12 pages.
Exactly. I have hunted lion and buff in SA. It was the greatest hunt of my life and it was every bit as fair chase as any lion hunt anywhere. Furthermore, it was a hellava lot more fair chase than all of the baited lion hunts I've seen hunters rave about. I tracked my lion down on foot and squared off with him. I find it funny how many people are quick to jump on the band wagon to judge others yet will pat themselves on the back when they do everything in their power to hold the door open for every anti nut job in the world to completely destroy everything we've worked so hard to protect.
It's simple if something is legal but you don't agree with it great, don't do it. But don't dare tell others they can't. And for gods sake quit cutting your nose off in spite of your face. There are many hollier than tho's out there who are going to look back in the near future shocked in disbelief that their heritage and rights are gone with complete surprise that their plan of getting in bed with the enemy was a bad idea.
 
A few here, including myself, voiced a personal view on the subject of captive bred hunting. But I don't see where anyone dropped criticism at your feet or anyone else with an opposing view. I also don't see where anyone here claims to have campaigned against captive bred hunting.

In response you mention everyone having a right to their own ethics and yet you then go on to seemingly scold those who would dare hold a view contrary to your own. That intolerance or inability to accept the personal view of others seems quite hypocritical to me.

Maybe read what I say then as I have not scolded anyone other then if saying support other hunters even if you may not like it is a bad thing. I did say everyone can have there say and if someone saying shot not hunt is not taking a stab at anyone who has hunted a raised lion I guess we see things differently. The very thread was about a phasa guy which started a campaigned against captive bred lions. I don't come on here hating against anyones way of hunting unlike some. So I accept all people views I just don't go out of my way to bash on others who may hunt a way I don't like.

Plus I did not say anyone was dropping anything at my feet but having my say just like you. I say hunt how you like and don't be a hypocrite when it comes down to if you like it or not but support all legal hunting. We lose one right more will follow for sure.
 
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