Does anyone has info on shorter bullets for 458 win mag to minimize compression of powder? Does anyone still make a tungsten core bullet or high density bullet to squeeze a little more powder space for the 458 win mag?
Rick
Rick
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Short bullets for 458 win mag to increase powder capacity
- Thread starter Rick Hill
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I am not a fan of the 458 Win.
If you cannot get the velocity you are looking for with a conventional bullet in 500 grn, depending on what rifle it is, I would consider having the chamber reamed to a 458 Lott. Alternatively sell the rifle and buy a 458 Lott or any other large bore that does not have case capacity issues. This is if you intend hunting DG in Africa with it.
Be very careful of working up maximum loads and then trying to use the rifle on DG in Africa. With such a load in hotter temperatures this may cause extraction problems and can have the bolt jam with disastrous results.
Using shorter bullets will also reduce the sectional density and penetration which is not a good thing for DG.
For PG no problem.
If you cannot get the velocity you are looking for with a conventional bullet in 500 grn, depending on what rifle it is, I would consider having the chamber reamed to a 458 Lott. Alternatively sell the rifle and buy a 458 Lott or any other large bore that does not have case capacity issues. This is if you intend hunting DG in Africa with it.
Be very careful of working up maximum loads and then trying to use the rifle on DG in Africa. With such a load in hotter temperatures this may cause extraction problems and can have the bolt jam with disastrous results.
Using shorter bullets will also reduce the sectional density and penetration which is not a good thing for DG.
For PG no problem.
crs
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Rick,
WRT shorter .458 bullets(you did not specify weight).
A while back, we tested some shorter .458 bullets using my .45-90 on African game.
Two of the shorter ones that were very effective were :
1. 450 grain heavy jacket full metal jacket Kodiak from Alaska Bullet Works
2. 450 grain Punch Bullet from Belt Mountain (now distributed by Grizzly cartridge)
In a nutshell, the Kodiak frontal brain shot at 2150 fps knocked down an ele, but did not penetrate the brain. The flat nosed Kodiak was very effective on Cape buffalo.
The Punch bullet at 2100 fps on a frontal brain shot went through skull, brain , and out into the body. It was unmarked and could have been loaded and fired again.
As you know, the .45-90 has slightly less case capacity than the .450 Win Mag, but 2100 fps can safely be attained, so even higher velocity should be safe in your .458.
Incidentally, one of the pleasant surprises on that trip was the effectiveness on leopard of the .458 300 grain Nosler Protected Point bullet at 2200 fps; expansion to more than one inch diameter without breaking the jacket!
WRT shorter .458 bullets(you did not specify weight).
A while back, we tested some shorter .458 bullets using my .45-90 on African game.
Two of the shorter ones that were very effective were :
1. 450 grain heavy jacket full metal jacket Kodiak from Alaska Bullet Works
2. 450 grain Punch Bullet from Belt Mountain (now distributed by Grizzly cartridge)
In a nutshell, the Kodiak frontal brain shot at 2150 fps knocked down an ele, but did not penetrate the brain. The flat nosed Kodiak was very effective on Cape buffalo.
The Punch bullet at 2100 fps on a frontal brain shot went through skull, brain , and out into the body. It was unmarked and could have been loaded and fired again.
As you know, the .45-90 has slightly less case capacity than the .450 Win Mag, but 2100 fps can safely be attained, so even higher velocity should be safe in your .458.
Incidentally, one of the pleasant surprises on that trip was the effectiveness on leopard of the .458 300 grain Nosler Protected Point bullet at 2200 fps; expansion to more than one inch diameter without breaking the jacket!
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Hi Rick.
I am currently loading 74gr of AR2206H (H4895) behind the 480gr Woodleigh RNSP in a Winchester case with a CCI mag primer.
In my 24' barrel Zastava this gives spot on 2150fps and isn't heavily compressed. It also cloverleafs 3 shots at 50m.
Hope this helps.
Russ.
I am currently loading 74gr of AR2206H (H4895) behind the 480gr Woodleigh RNSP in a Winchester case with a CCI mag primer.
In my 24' barrel Zastava this gives spot on 2150fps and isn't heavily compressed. It also cloverleafs 3 shots at 50m.
Hope this helps.
Russ.
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Also the 480gr Woodleigh has a SD of .325 (well over the .300 considered min for DG) and is a premium bullet. It is specifically made for the .458WM and I can highly recommend it.
Cheers,
Russ.
Cheers,
Russ.
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Stubby bullets don't have a great ballistic coefficient.
They will shed velocity rapidly and are more likely to become unstable.
Suggest you check for slightly faster powders rather than maxing out etc.
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I'm curious about this. I've never hunted DG but have read all my life that DG is shot at less than 100 yards, preferably 50 yards and in. If that is the case then I don't see an issue with stubby bullets losing too much velocity, the distance traveled wouldn't be that far. I can see penetration being an issue though. Not trying to start a fight, was just wondering.
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Dwight,
Agreed on DG range and bullets.
An acquaintance of mine has used a handgun to kill numerous African big game animals and those bullets do look a bit "stubby" by comparison with most rifle bullets, but they took the game. My best hunting buddy has taken multiple Cape buff with his .45-70 and some more with my .45-90. All those bullets looked a bit "stubby" compared to some big bore rifle bullets which are pointed, but the buffalo are dead and the hunter unscathed. They were also well under 100 yards range, as was the .45-90 ele and my 1895 .405 buff (both at 20 yards).
When responding to Rick's original question, I could only speak from my personal experience. BTW, in range testing with a .45-70 at 50 yards, the 430 grain Punch Bullet was the only bullet that shot through a 5/8 th inch steel plate. Even monolithic copper bullets flattened into pretty jewelry. We reckoned that if the punch would shoot through that steel plate, it would "punch" through an ele skull; just what happened.
Agreed on DG range and bullets.
An acquaintance of mine has used a handgun to kill numerous African big game animals and those bullets do look a bit "stubby" by comparison with most rifle bullets, but they took the game. My best hunting buddy has taken multiple Cape buff with his .45-70 and some more with my .45-90. All those bullets looked a bit "stubby" compared to some big bore rifle bullets which are pointed, but the buffalo are dead and the hunter unscathed. They were also well under 100 yards range, as was the .45-90 ele and my 1895 .405 buff (both at 20 yards).
When responding to Rick's original question, I could only speak from my personal experience. BTW, in range testing with a .45-70 at 50 yards, the 430 grain Punch Bullet was the only bullet that shot through a 5/8 th inch steel plate. Even monolithic copper bullets flattened into pretty jewelry. We reckoned that if the punch would shoot through that steel plate, it would "punch" through an ele skull; just what happened.
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There are now so many fantastic bullets available for the .458 like the NF and the CEB, that the .458WM is more than enough gun for anything that walks the earth.
These bullets may be lighter than traditional RN bullets, but by their design they penetrate far greater than traditional bullets that weigh much more. It's a win win for the hunter. More velocity, more penetration, possibly flatter trajectory and less recoil.
Throw in the 480 and even 500gr Woodleigh's that load well in the .458 case and you have some good choices for hunting any DG,
These bullets may be lighter than traditional RN bullets, but by their design they penetrate far greater than traditional bullets that weigh much more. It's a win win for the hunter. More velocity, more penetration, possibly flatter trajectory and less recoil.
Throw in the 480 and even 500gr Woodleigh's that load well in the .458 case and you have some good choices for hunting any DG,
Badboymelvin
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If you don't like heavily compressed loads, Swift also makes the A Frame in 450gr and Barnes makes a 450gr TSX.
So there you go Rick, off the top of my head I can name the CEB, Woodleigh, North Fork, Swift A frame and Barnes TSX that all offer something that should suit your needs. I say choose one, go shoot something big with it and then tell us all about it... with pics!
So there you go Rick, off the top of my head I can name the CEB, Woodleigh, North Fork, Swift A frame and Barnes TSX that all offer something that should suit your needs. I say choose one, go shoot something big with it and then tell us all about it... with pics!
Dwight Beagle
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Ray B
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Speer used to make some bullets, as I recall they were called African Grand Slam, but I haven't seen them listed for about ten years. But using the powders presently available it is possible to obtain over 2000 fps muzzle velocity with a 500 grain standard FMJ with very little if any compression of powder in the 458 Win Mag. Since sectional density only tells someone a function of weight/ diameter of the bullet, I much prefer the length/diameter as a descriptive term for the bullet.
Professor Mawla
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Labor Fur Ballistik offers 480 grain factory loaded ammunition ; both in soft nosed format and full metal jacket format . Velocity is above 2200 feet per second and perfectly adequate for the .458 Winchester Magnum .
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