Elephant or Buffalos?

@wipartimer Zim is far more traditional, wild and rugged than most (but not all) of South Africa.

The Shona and Matabele tribes of Zim are much more peaceable people than the South African Zulu.

The modern crime rates and "safety" of Zim is much lower/better than South Africa.

Complaints about Zim are about bureaucratic and annoying logistics, not about the indigenous people or the hunting community.

Personally i would do Elephant, the only reason i say this is the fact that they will not get cheaper in the future and I'm sure the quota numbers will reduce every year with all the pressure from the greenies. Things might change for you in the future and you might be able to come back for that buffalo hunt.....

Elephant!! Having done both I will be doing elephant again. For many reasons. Here is why I would do elephant first in the currant state there are going to be less and less hunting of them with prices going up and not down I believe for a trophy inportable bull that is. There is just something about seeing and being in the middle of elephant it is much more emotional to me that buffalo hunting. If you watch for cancellation hunts or late season ones you can get great deals. I would email Karl at Ndumo and see what he can work out for you in Namibia. I have hunted buffalo only once and elephant twice now and looking to go back again. I will probably do a own use bull hunt as it is cheaper with Karl again in the future unless a late season deal pops up then I would do a trophy hunt. I believe there will be buffalo hunts for many years to come prices have been dropping for fenced ones though I would do a remote wild buffalo hunt if it was me. But the case is still that I'm not sure how much longer elephant will be importable but buffalo I think you still have a long time to hunt one and prices I think will hold on buffalo

Pro Hunting Safaris said:

Personally i would do Elephant, the only reason i say this is the fact that they will not get cheaper in the future and I'm sure the quota numbers will reduce every year with all the pressure from the greenies. Things might change for you in the future and you might be able to come back for that buffalo hunt.....

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Petrus, I agree with you.... but.... there is some vibrations in the air that Botswana will open up hunting after a couple of years, and then the prices of elephant will effect the market. In the same time I hear that an elephant got wounded by poachers yesterday on our neighbour farm and very unfortunately poaching will never stop, and elephants are in a big pressure right now.

The reason why Botswana's elephant population is growing rapidly is that the military is used as anti poaching units, and with a small small populated country and so also death penalty on poaching... it's in favour of the wildlife.

I would go for a buff safari and then see what's happens with the ban in Botswana !

Best regards, Michael

Mbizi Safaris said:

Petrus, I agree with you.... but.... there is some vibrations in the air that Botswana will open up hunting after a couple of years, and then the prices of elephant will effect the market. In the same time I hear that an elephant got wounded by poachers yesterday on our neighbour farm and very unfortunately poaching will never stop, and elephants are in a big pressure right now.

The reason why Botswana's elephant population is growing rapidly is that the military is used as anti poaching units, and with a small small populated country and so also death penalty on poaching... it's in favour of the wildlife.

I would go for a buff safari and then see what's happens with the ban in Botswana !

Best regards, Michael

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Counterpoint: the Tuli elephants I saw were all non-trophy bulls. Botswana is not known for big ivory and therefore the demand for those will be less. Obviously, there are exceptions but it's just not a trophy bull destination like many places in Zim and Moz.

Get right on that exportable bull!

rookhawk said:

Counterpoint: the Tuli elephants I saw were all non-trophy bulls. Botswana is not known for big ivory and therefore the demand for those will be less. Obviously, there are exceptions but it's just not a trophy bull destination like many places in Zim and Moz.

Get right on that exportable bull!

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Rookhawk, the Tuli block is a tiny little fringe of Botswana in the east and border RSA, hold not more than one percent of Botswana... Did you ever visited the Chobe block or Nxai Pan or even drive the road from Kazungula down over Pandamatenga and continue over Tamafupa ? That whole area border Hwange in east and I have never seen so many trophy elephant bulls ever that I see last year in that area !

Mbizi Safaris said:

Rookhawk, the Tuli block is a tiny little fringe of Botswana in the east and border RSA, hold not more than one percent of Botswana... Did you ever visited the Chobe block or Nxai Pan or even drive the road from Kazungula down over Pandamatenga and continue over Tamafupa ? That whole area border Hwange in east and I have never seen so many trophy elephant bulls ever that I see last year in that area !

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I have not. I assumed if Elephant is to be hunted it would be in Tuli block where there is legal private ranches. Not Okavanga Delta, Hwange West, etc.

Do you think Botswana will permit hunting on national park property again? I may have misread the intent of the initial statement.

@Mbizi Safaris , I don't think there is much chance of elephants opening in Botswana. It has a lot to do with international credit ratings, stopping elephant hunting put Botswana into a much higher credit rating, thus govt receives more international funding. @bassasdaindia , Larry could explain the system better than I can.

I would take an elephant first.

wipartimer said:

One of the great things about this site, aside from the mountains of information and great people, is the way you all seem to truly grasp and articulate the emotional aspect of my questions and can respond to it. I've never been very good at putting my thoughts into words, but you all still get it. Thank you for that!
I had never considered or even looked into Zimbabwe just because in all honesty, some of the posts here regarding politics and economy in Zim have scared the hell out of me. I could actually consider replicas of my tusks and good photos or maybea video, but would really like a bracelet at least fromy elephant. I assume even that wouldn't be possible from Zimbabwe?

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yes it would be possible mate and Zim is the place, forget all the stuff about politics etc,it is a fine hunting destination and safe too, Zimbabweans are in general great people.If yo are doing in just the once do it right and hunt wild Africa

Mbizi Safaris said:

Petrus, I agree with you.... but.... there is some vibrations in the air that Botswana will open up hunting after a couple of years, and then the prices of elephant will effect the market. In the same time I hear that an elephant got wounded by poachers yesterday on our neighbour farm and very unfortunately poaching will never stop, and elephants are in a big pressure right now.

The reason why Botswana's elephant population is growing rapidly is that the military is used as anti poaching units, and with a small small populated country and so also death penalty on poaching... it's in favour of the wildlife.

I would go for a buff safari and then see what's happens with the ban in Botswana !

Best regards, Michael

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That is great news and really hope you are right!

Mbizi Safaris said:

Petrus, I agree with you.... but.... there is some vibrations in the air that Botswana will open up hunting after a couple of years, and then the prices of elephant will effect the market. In the same time I hear that an elephant got wounded by poachers yesterday on our neighbour farm and very unfortunately poaching will never stop, and elephants are in a big pressure right now.

The reason why Botswana's elephant population is growing rapidly is that the military is used as anti poaching units, and with a small small populated country and so also death penalty on poaching... it's in favour of the wildlife.

I would go for a buff safari and then see what's happens with the ban in Botswana !

Best regards, Michael

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I hope you are right but i don't think it will happen! It took allot of effort to close hunting in Botswanna and the government is receiving Billions to keep it that way.

Simon, that can maybe have something to do with rankings etc.. but the country will suffer hard in a few years because there will be too many elephants. So sooner or later the question will rise if the country should go back to culling or legal trophy hunting ? Only Chobe hold 50,000 elephants and Hwange hold approximately the same numbers...

Mike, I think we all agree Botswana will suffer in the long term, but not finacially.

Philip Glass said:

Elephant for sure. Many reasons.
Philip

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Philip Glass said:

Elephant for sure. Many reasons.
Philip

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Actually buffalo have been deemed by vetted expert Kevin Robertson in Africa's most dangerous!

Once you've hunted elephant which is very exciting you will always want to continue buffalo hunting