IMPORTANT: Immediate Changes to South African Firearm Registration Guidelines for American Hunters

johnnyblues said:
Legalized robbery.
Click to expand...

Had a guy tell me onetime he asked for a receipt for the tip and the airline employee said " our receipt book is empty just now....so no tip required"
 
The biggest problem as I see it is that even if the 4457 form never expires you are dealing with a different country so if you show up there with a 4457 that has a expiration date on it then you are going to loose the argument with the SAP's officers.

I wonder how they are handling the 4457's that don't have a expiration on them.

This is just one more reason to rent a firearm when and if I go back.

Finally when I was leaving the SAP's office in Joberg a couple of years ago and nice lady in uniform smiled at me and asked if I had anything for her and her friend.
 
I use a agent for the permits, it is when I fly thru Joberg to the final destinations that the tipping raises its ugly head, departing Joberg and arrival and leaving PE. I would think that the services provided by the rifle pre approval groups would want to make this firearm import business as friendly to the hunter as possible, thus generating income for them and more business instead of SAPS making so many hoops to jump thru, thus discouraging hunters from bringing their own firearms, at some time and expense....rent one from the PH.
 
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CAustin said:
Had a guy tell me onetime he asked for a receipt for the tip and the airline employee said " our receipt book is empty just now....so no tip required"
Click to expand...
That's funny
 
It just makes no sense if it's not a requirement for their country. Be interesting to see what Henry has to say when he emails me.
 
Been to Africa 4 times now. I have never paid a tip yet. I have been asked or hinted for one at least 3 times. One was at the saps office a number of years ago. She actually held her hand out. So I shook her hand and went on my way. Bruce
 
If I am hunting RSA, and my first and final destination is Johannesburg, can my PH or outfitter meet me there, and prevent me from being fleeced? I mean he should be concerned about this more than I am.
Also, are other African countries better, or worse at this "bribe game" ?
 
I guess I'm heading to the airport. Mine has an expiration date of 1994... Even though it was issued in 2012!! Good ole Feds. Kevin
 
I see mention in the OP of a "transit permit". Never heard of that, is that even a thing? In July going to Namibia, we are only transiting RSA so I had no plans to deal with SAPS at all except in an emergency, layover or whatever. Years ago that happened and we had to lay overnight in JO, and we had no papers for the guns, but a real nice lady in the back somewhere tagged them for next days flight and we never touched them or had to do SAPS. I also so mention of the AES BS again, here. I was assured by a CBP agent via email that the system is on hold and to ignore it, but that was some months ago.
 
johnnyblues said:
Legalized robbery.
Click to expand...
Of course it is. And you have no real recourse. My two most recent trips it was the police baggage supervisor who nailed me - but he holds trumps (he has your rifle).
Edward Wright said:
If I am hunting RSA, and my first and final destination is Johannesburg, can my PH or outfitter meet me there, and prevent me from being fleeced? I mean he should be concerned about this more than I am.
Also, are other African countries better, or worse at this "bribe game" ?
Click to expand...
The very worst is Lagos Nigeria. But, hey, welcome to the Third World. Just wish more Americans could experience it.
 
In my uneducated opinion I believe this whole deal is because SAPS is under the false impression that the 4457 is our "gun permit" as opposed to proof of ownership. I reality be glad it's just this instead of them insisting that we have some mythical permit that we, at least here in the great state of Texas, aren't required to have to own the firearm.
 
I just checked the CBP site tonight and the AES system is still on hold, good news for now. I did note that it now states, may have before, not sure, that ammo should also be listed on the 4457 if you think you will be bringing any back unused. So add that to the items, even though no serial number! And for those unaware as I was last time in 2014, you need to list your guns and ammo on the declaration form along with your doo dads you are bringing back from wherever. I got barked at by the CBP guy last time because I didn't list the guns on the form coming into JFK. I had no idea..
 
On my first trip in 1985, Tanzania, I recall the PH was greasing palms quite happily at the airport to smooth things along. I remember the old word, "baksheesh", sort of a polite term for bribe but more a facilitation.
 
sestoppelman said:
I just checked the CBP site tonight and the AES system is still on hold, good news for now. I did note that it now states, may have before, not sure, that ammo should also be listed on the 4457 if you think you will be bringing any back unused. So add that to the items, even though no serial number! And for those unaware as I was last time in 2014, you need to list your guns and ammo on the declaration form along with your doo dads you are bringing back from wherever. I got barked at by the CBP guy last time because I didn't list the guns on the form coming into JFK. I had no idea..
Click to expand...
Bark all he wants - that's BS.
 
As a working dangerous game guide in Canada ... we too seem to have some of the craziest paperwork to be filled out, by in coming American Hunters... Funny how it always comes down to the Paper Work!! Thanks for the heads up...
 
I left work at lunch and took my primary rifle to the CBP office at McCarran Airport. I explained the situation to the Officers who were present. They all thought the situation was ridiculous and echoed what has been said here about the 4457's only purpose was for bringing property back in to the US. There was no mention of the AES system nor listing my ammo on a 4457. I was concerned about getting a 4457 for my Rolex before my first trip. The CBP Officer at that time felt it wasn't necessary. The guys today felt the same.
Having worked in bureaucracies for too long, I'm sure that there is an element of different airports doing slightly different things. I regularly fly with a firearm in my checked baggage. Every airport is different with how they handle it.
The repeated references to being shaken down while transiting to Port Elizabeth and returning to Johannesburg concern me. I've been a cop for more than half of my life. As a matter of principle, I'd rather lose a rifle than pay another cop a bribe. Having said that, it's great to be on firm legal ground. However, it's not great to argue about it while you're wearing handcuffs or your rifle has taken a side-trip. It's one thing to rant about one's righteous indignation about being shaken down, but I also know that won't solve anything. I see the validity to what previous posters have said about just "tipping".
Any issues that I have will be documented in my hunt report in late April. Wish me luck,....
 
South Africa is becoming increasingly not-user-friendly for hunters bringing a firearm so, I've quit bringing a rifle to or even through South Africa, a country that I am quite fond of.
So, when planning a hunting safari to that country or, any country that results in my having to pass through Johannesburg these days, I just rent rifles and shotguns anymore.

Mexico is becoming increasingly hostile toward "gringos".
So, I will not return again.

Had to bribe the Honduran Federales (road block, near Lago Yojoa) to un-arrest my hired driver.
They put cuffs on him for "not wearing his seatbelt" even though he had it on the whole way up from the city where we started.
So, I will never go back to Honduras.

Visited The Cayman Islands once but, it was so out-of-proportion expensive that I will never go back.

Visited the Chicago Sportsman's Show once.
Vehicle traffic in that city is insane.
So, I will never go back.
(Their homicide rate is also insane for that matter).

And so-on and so-forth.

Perhaps I'll run out of places to boycott but, I seriously doubt it.
 
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Well I hope this all get straightened out since I just got a call from my outfitter/owner/PH and now if I can scramble around and get everything into place I will be headed to Port Elizabeth May 12th for a PG hunt.
Now I have to decide on the rifles to take. Wish I could take 3. I will take the 338win mag but cannot choose between the 264win mag and my 257Weatherby.
I will start on tickets/gun permits etc tomorrow.
 
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